Warning to anyone with a child at nursery

[Heffalumpspots]

Hi - I haven't posted on here before. I had a difficult pregnancy a couple of years ago, and lurked a lot and got a lot of reassurance from hearing what other people were going through but never got up the courage to post. However, we are in a terrible situation at the moment and I just need to try to let other parents know what can happen.

My daughter is now 27 months, and has been at a local day nursery two days a work for nearly a year. The nursery lost a manager through no fault of its own last summmer, and since then there has been no stable management. This had obviously been a matter of concern for us, but as it takes a long time to settle our daughter into a new environment and the staff seemed interested and caring we decided to leave her there. I wish, with every bone in my body, I could go back and change that decision.

Last week, a temporary nursery manager reported us to police and social services because our daughter had bruising on her body. They were small bruises, around her hips. The previous evening she had attempted to climb out of the bath, and I had grabbed her to stop her falling on the bathroom floor, and although I am not sure I remember seeing any marks at the time, the bruises are a fingerprint pattern where I caught her. The bruises were never anything other than brown/green/yellow and after less than 5 days had largely faded away.

The nursery manager made the decision to report this without so much as asking us how the bruising had been caused. She did not even wait to speak to me when I collected my daughter, despite knowing that the police would have contacted me. There is no deputy manager, and so far as I could gather in my very distressed state the member of staff who was left to meet me had had no involvement in the report.

As a result of this, we had police and social services turn up on our doorstep and demand that we take our daughter, immediately (at 6.30 in the evening), to a children's hospital which is over half an hour's drive from our home. There was noone there to examine her, and we had to return for well over an hour of examination and cross-examination the following day. We had been lead to believe, by police and social services, that this would be the end of the matter, but once we were in the examination it became apparent that once this process is triggered, it will inevitably take a number of weeks. We have no guarantee that our daughter will not be taken away from us, and even if it is concluded that no action needs to be taken against us this will remain on police and social services files for ever.

The effect of this on our little family is all just devastating. We are finding it very hard to keep going. I had very bad depression 5 or 6 years ago, which had not been a problem at all in the past few years, but I'm now constantly fighting a sense of absolute panic. I'd also worked hard to start to rebuild a career, and am left with no childcare and no idea how I am meant to trust my child to any kind of childcare again.

However, the things I wanted to let other people know - and which I wish to God I had known, are:

• I have no idea how much 'spin' there has been in what we have been told, but there certainly seems to be a view that in any case where a child has bruises on their torso then all of this is justified. If that is the case, please, please don't send your child to nursery if they have any bruises on their torso - or if they could develop them. I didn't actually see my daughter's bruises in the morning before she went to nursery: I was dressing her half in the dark, and they could have developed later anyway.

• If you have any concerns at all about nursery management, please, please get your child away from that setting. It doesn't matter how good the staff are, this kind of thing is always something which is decided by the manager. And it doesn't matter how they reached their judgement, because they are a 'nursery manager' the police are automatically involved when they make a report to social services.

• If you find yourself in this awful situation, don't let yourself be strung along by police and social services giving the impression that all you need to do is let your child be examined. That is only the start of a process which will inevitably be hanging over you for weeks. From some of the information online, it seems as if we actually had a right to have a lawyer in the examination with us - we are going to take legal advice in the next few days.

Had we known the nature of the process we were engaged in, we would have insisted on doing that upfront. I am just hoping we don't live to regret, for all eternity, not having done so.

Yes they will get it wrong sometimes! What about the police, doctors and you as a volunteer? You wont report your concerns to relevent people ? The social worker "admitted" this case- why not say they stated it could happen. Although, i find it hard to believe they would mention a local case(even without names, some people can work out the so-called facts) in place of a research study(No names no pack drill!) Think you begrudged doing checks. I do know that some families i.e benefit-claiming single parents may be more exposed to mis-understandings than other familes. Compare and contrast the experiences of Ben in Crete and gps child m mcann.

A week later, child says at nursery mammy kept me off because of my brusies or does it just apply to non-speaking babies?

Dear Heffalump, it sounds like the most important thing you can do now is to stay calm and make sure that you are not making the situation worse for your child by being tense and emotional, or worse for your outcome by presenting as out-of -control. So my suggestion is, get help for YOU, and NOW. Depression and anxiety are sooo horrible and so debilitating, and with the right kind of support, you can feel a lot better, and can get through this.

Ok, now go and make an appointment!

I know this post was posted sometime ago, and i havent read all the messages, just the OP and the first page, but as a trained Nursery Nurse myself - although i have been out of the profession around 4 years, i have worked in several different nurserys and did a qualification in childcare.

The reason why the manager reported the bruising is because when you are training, it is drummed into Nursery nurses heads that bruising on the stomach area, back and top of the legs, chest area, particularly finger markings are a serious causes for concern that the child hasnt done them themselves.

The nursery manager or any staff are strictly told not to approach or discuss the markings with anyone other than children protection services. This prevents the staff being put in a position of violence and threatning behaviour. And so it doesnt give the "abuser" a incline that someone is "onto them" and for them to think up of a believable story.

Staff are taught to take any concerns up with someone higher than their authority and let them deal with the situation.

In my experience, it is extreme for you to be reported when they notice the markings for the first time. They should of monitored the situation, and if suspicious markings appeared again, then they should of taken further steps.

It is a big worry when your under SS investigation, but if you are appearing nervous and interegatiing the SS about the claim made against you, then you are making yourself look suspicious and like you have something to hide (i am in no way suggesting this is the case, but just what it looks like to SS)

SS dont just take children away from one allegation, but they may put your child on the "At risk register" and when they feel that your child is not at risk, then they will be removed from this.

But from one incident, i dont think SS will take this any further.

Hi,was hoping someone can help. Can a nursery refuse to test a child's sugar levels if needed due to a medical condition where there sugar level can drop anytime?

Pumpkin, at a guess I would say Yes as it is an invasive procedure - it draws blood (if I am thinking of the correct test).

It should be discussed with the nursery management and procedures put in place for there to be certain key individuals (have a few not just one) who are trained (by parent) how to do it.
Anything that needs to be disposed of will need to be sent home with child at the end of the day, unless the nursery has a clinical waste collection.

If you are having trouble finding a nursery who are able to do this, then talk to your local authority (if in the UK) early years department as they have an obligation to provide sufficient childcare places in their area. They are also able to reassure providers about what they can and can not do.

Firstly, I'm sorry you have had to deal with this and it sounds obviously very upsetting. I've have experience with CP as part of my work, so just wanted to share a few thoughts

1. it is very rare for social services to even take a referral without the nursery speaking to the parent first. This suggests either the nursery had no one trained/confident in child protection (totally plausible in the situation you described) or they have recorded other concerns previously or the local authority recently failed to protect a child and they are now 'swinging the other way' due to concern they will miss something again.

2. it is highly, highly, highly unlikely that you're child will be taken away from one incident with this clear explanation. It may however, take a few months to be totally over. Unfortunately, if you get in a flap (which so totally and completely natural!) it may hinder rather than help. So try to stay calm and act (or rather show) that you have nothing to hide.

3. you will have understandable angers and concerns, please, please, please try to get someone ideally a counsellor to talk to about this. I say this because I have seen social worker on occasion get totally the wrong idea about a family I know better because the parent/s have seemed in a mess when they are interview. Get support, talk it through.

4. get legal advice from a charity if possible.

5. don't panic (easier said than done)

Ahem,this thread is two years old.

Pumpkin yes the nursery can refuse
Its up to the nursery.
They can also refuse to adminster medicines if they choose

Sorry to hear this but next time please tell the nursery, school etc that you're dd has a bruise and explain how it has happened because then you have firstly covered your own back... Your not hiding it. Anyone who works with children need to do this, it's in the safeguarding policy, everytime my dd falls over and hurts herself I always tell the teacher, so I am not hiding the situation, wether its a small bruise or a big one, the teachers sometimes appreciate that u have shared the information with them instead of "hiding" it.. x

be very worried .I have had to remove my son from a nursery who reported us over one bruise the size of 20p .they then decided to lie to us start a file and try to force family support on us with relentless pressure.what made it worse is the fact he got the mark in the nursery in the first place .they are completely over the top now wasting important time the social services have not got. time they should be spending on real child abusers .we are very upset having been accused of this and were advised to move the nursery which we have done . it is not over yet i am sure .

this is a joke ,we are going through the same thing .its all gone over the top now and i will never trust anyone who works in education or the nhs .this is what this is doing to ordinary family's we are thinking of leaving the uk

Bye?

It's probably better that bruises are investigated than not though, after the horrific cases reported in the news. You should be glad your nursery takes them seriously.

hiya heffalumpspots i just wanted to let you know that i understand what you are going through, my childs father graphically threatened to kill me and kidnap my child, due to my safety i informed the police instantly and made an attempt to press charges but due to having a biased officer who beleived my childs father was provoked into the threat they NFA'ed him and due to me being pregnant a referal to child services were made were due to history of anorexia they put me on a child protection plan i gave birth to my child prematurly on a sunday and the next monday a social worker came to start going through details i was not even allowed to leave the hospital without the social worker agreeing it is terrible this was 2 years ago and im now only just coming out the system they do mess you around i get through it by thinking it takes a very miserable person to find comfort in making new mothers life as hard as possible xxx

They won't speak to the parent before reporting it as if the parent is the one inflicting harm then potentially they could be putting that child at risk. The nursery behaved according to protocol and I'm sure things will work out fine for you.
I am a bit unnerved by your advice to others. What you have posted there is in essence advice to abusing parents of how to cover up their abuse!

Should add, the setting did not "reach a judgement". That's not their job. Their job is simply to report it and for others (SS and the police) to reach conclusions.
Parts of the body carry different significance in terms of child protection (for instance, bruises on legs are very common, bruises on torsos less so).

I'm very sorry for you but I have used nurseries extensively and this would not happen

ZOMBIE THREAD. this happened more than 2 years ago.

Nursery phones me while am at work, to tell me that my boy has been saying that his dady shouted at him, when ever he gets a little cut or bruise, they make me sign a piece of paper, i feel that, they are interrogating me, my mum droped him off and they asked her where he got this tiny cut on his nose from? Am really worried that they are gathering info before they call social services, my little boy is so happy am confused as to why they are doing this!

@Yamina2019 - This is a very old thread of messages. You would be better off starting a new thread to get support.