Hadley Freeman in Sunday Times 12 Jan

[VioletIndigoBlueGreen]

Middle aged people like to have a label to blame, but life's not that simple: www.thetimes.com/article/6578b4e5-9d0c-423a-bded-1fde07edc2e7?shareToken=a8ca65a2cd8bc79e992dd9c6a8e3da86

I came on here to see if anyone else had started a thread. I normally rate Hadley's views, but found this quite lacking in empathy.

I received an ASD diagnosis in 2022 aged 44 and haven't told anyone beyond my husband and teenager as I don't think my wider family or friends would necessarily understand. I'd kind of resolved to try to be more open about this (especially with my parents) in the coming year, but this article enforces my worst suspicions that everyone who doesn't live with me will think it's a fad and I'm making a fuss about nothing.

Anyone else have any thoughts?

Ah, it's just one journalist's opinion, and she doesn't have a clue. She doesn't seem to know that we're neurodivergent and that Neurodiversity applies to humans in general. I'm out and proud about mine. Don't care who knows, it's part of who I am and I'm not embarrassed or ashamed of it.

The way I see it, is that beyond the people that live with you, it doesn't really make any difference either way. I was diagnosed in 2023 and have told DH and teenager, and a select few friends but not my family (yet). I flip between wanting it to be a secret and wanting everyone to know. But have come to realise that it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, as long as I am living as authentically as I can with my new knowledge. Like @Mabelface I wouldn't really pay much attention to one person's (likely uninformed) opinion.

I don't think it's her best or most interesting work, but as someone who conducts those assessments and makes those diagnoses, as well as having ND diagnoses myself, I and my colleagues don't disagree with what HF is saying here. We're in a time of a big shift, and this article comments on the cultural phenomena, just not in any way that adds to the discussion. In my service, we do expect things to be different in a decade or so.

People seeking ADHD diagnosis was reported as up quite markedly during COVID, like it a shone a gap in some peoples lives that made them question whether they had the diagnosis or not. Some people do seek out not gold seal tests for these conditions and it will be granted to them. There was a report in the UK that showed this was being done. Hadley is entited to her opinion as well.

Hadley has openly talked her mental health struggles with anorexia and I think drugs as well.It is not uncommon now at all to find anorexia sufferers past or present with high autism traits itself. Perhaps if she has had these she may feel she just got on with things.I have been in treatment with her for anorexia. I won't say more on that.

I was quite severely affected through my life and she having met me at 21 might say I'm not surprised for I was pretty much missed and was impacted severely from an early point.

We have to be stringent with testing. I was tested on the NHS with ADOS 2 by two pyschologists in person.

The article seems idiotic.

She is mainly talking about ADHD, but then also lumping ASD in with it without any supporting argument.

And for ADHD, my understanding is that medication is available. So if people are benefitting from medication, then how can it be a fad?

Just stupid.

I agree with what she's saying. There are people with ADHD and ASD (to take two of the "trending" conditions that are assessed on spectrums), and some of them really need help and support. My eldest DS is one of those people. Then there are loads and loads of people who may well be somewhere on the ND spectrum but have actually been doing pretty well despite it. I am one of the latter.

It might be interesting or satisfying to me to get a midlife ADHD assessment, but ultimately I am pretty functional and all it will really do is help me know myself a bit better. My son on the other hand is much more ADHD than I am and needs proper help. I do not want to take up resources and deny them to people like him.

I do wonder if there is a spike in ND behaviours because young people aren't socialising in person as much as my pre-internet generation did, so there are more high functioning young NDs missing out on some of what for us were useful how-to-adapt-to-an-NT-world formative experiences. But I have no idea how to go about evidencing that!

Hadley Freeman seems to have become very rigid and reactionary in her thinking. "We are all neurodiverse" is the equivalent of "all lives matter" - trying t be clever, but just exposing your own ignorance.

I’m used to this sort of mindset after seeing the attitudes here on MN, not that it makes it any better, just expected. If people want to be bigoted and / or closed-minded, that’s on them. It doesn’t make my ND any less real (Autistic with ADHD). And no, it isn’t that I’m just ‘a little distracted from time to time’, as she says in the article 🙄 What bollocks.

I'm in two minds about this one. I don't have an ASD diagnosis but I think I probably would have if I was a child now. Even my mum and brother have said this to me.

I do find it a bit annoying when I hear people talk about being ASD and yet their "traits" seem to be pretty normal personality types (like introversion). I also don't like the way people describe themselves as "high functioning" or as "having a superpower" as it feels a bit condescending to those who have more severe autism.

I know Hadley has experienced anorexia and addiction, both of which are heavily stigmatised (still) so I can empathise with her frustration that there seems to be a right and wrong way to be neurodiverse.

Thanks for all your thoughts. I think it's the conflation of ADHD and ASD in her article that bothers me, as they are quite different situations with one potentially leading to medication and the other not.

I also agree with the issue that ASD is used as a term to diagnose such a massive range of people that it's not always something that others can meaningfully understand in relation to adults who have a profession, a family, etc.

It's really made me think, as I'm already a bit preoccupied with whether to share my own diagnosis and how it might land with my family. Thanks for your thoughts!

My issue with the article is that it is already incredibly difficult for autistic girls to have their needs taken seriously and this column just contributes to a sense in the wider world that they should just buck their ideas up and muddle through unsupported. The Times seems to have a bit of an agenda currently (Matthew Parris has written some ‘lovely’ articles on subjects such as mental health, PIP, and neurodiversity) - rather than waste much more mental energy on it I think I will just vote with my feet.

I was sort of in agreement with a lot of the article... Until she just dumped in the sentence 'we are all neurodiverse'. She defends the comment in terms of semantics - 'everyone's brain is different' - but it's obviously total bullshit to say that everyone has/could be diagnosed with ADHD or ASD - which is obviously the tone of the article. Sorry I haven't explained that very well!

As an aside, I'm awaiting an ASD assessment with Psychiatry UK and I'm worried that it won't be a proper assesment. If I do get a diagnosis I want to feel confident in it. But it feels like there isn't an alternative option unless you have a lot of money. GP advised me not to use the local NHS ASD service because of the five year long waiting list.

ETA I know it won't be a 'proper assessment' by most standards, but I mean I'm worried it'll just be total bullshit where there's no chance of not being diagnosed.

What I find difficult is that Hadley has written eloquently in the past about her ED experiences, but doesn't appear to have joined the dots.

But then again, I'm starting to think Rupert has an anti ND editorial requirement.

The piece slating ADHD by Libby Purves, who has suffered the tragedy of losing a child to suicide was another challenging read. It's frustrating when capable journalists don't examine important contributing factors even when their reasons are entirely understandable. As a reader, I really want them to see what they are being wilfully blind to.

I agree with her TBH. Loads of my middle-aged friends are now getting private diagnoses - I don't know anyone who has gone for a private diagnosis and NOT been diagnosed. I am quite sure that I would be too.

It does worry me, especially younger people using it as a reason that they need their phones all the time to self-regulate: of my NCT group, 80% of our (now adult) children have ASD diagnoses: most are living at home and saying they will never be able to be independent or work.

I didn't really want to read the article but then I did.
I was diagnosed with ADHD about 7yrs ago in my early 40s. This was done through the NHS. My workplace are aware as I need reasonable adjustments to do my job. I am open with my colleagues because firstly they can see that I have RA in place so why would that be? And secondly to help improve understanding and empathy around ND.
Articles such as this just reinforce my entrenched anxiety and belief that this is how most people think. Looking at me, you wouldn't have a clue that I have a disability. Why can't I just practice so I get better at the tasks that I can't do at work? Gosh everyone thinks they've got ADHD now!
One of the most common responses when I opened up to friends about my diagnosis was "oooo I think I have that too!" To which I'd then try and explain that the individual quirks they talk about are normal, it's when these things stop you from being able to cope in every day life, work etc. I make sure people know that I was diagnosed by the NHS because that seems more "genuine".
ADHD is certainly not my "superpower". Sadly I don't experience hyper focus.
It's a pretty shit diagnosis to have right now because of articles like this.

Like many other posters, my heart sank reading this.

Numerous ND diagnoses in my family, and very likely older generations undiagnosed. We really REALLY struggle sometimes and life can be incredibly stressful just to function at school/work and socially.

I really like HF and found her writing about anorexia including her book Good Girls really helpful (lots of eating issues for my ASD daughters including anorexia).

But reading this article is like a different person is writing. It feels so dismissive.

To be clear, diagnoses include those for the middle aged members - it's definitely not just the kids who are struggling!

What annoys me about these articles and comments - and it's not the first I'e seen - is that they're conflating increased awareness and diagnosis (a good thing) with the fact that some people use real or perceived ND as an excuse (a bad thing).

When you ACTUALLY have an ND, or are intimately involved with someone who does, and that person is doing their bloody best to be "better" and to better manage their challenges, it's incredibly frustrating to see all these people who seem to think that being diagnosed with ADHD is just a "get out of jail free" card - and that's the poeple who do it or the people who think that everyone else does it.

DS isn't going to miraculously not have to take his GCSEs because his inattentive ADHD means it's very difficlt for him to manage in a classrom setting (and dont' even get me started on his visual acuity issues which I still hve to deal with). He's not suddenly allowed to misbehave in class with no consequences. His ADHD and struggle with executive funciton doesn't mean he doesn't get detensions if he's late for school.

The point is that he has to figure out how to manage all these things. One thing that actively helps him is meds. He has loads of other coping mechanisms as well. But also, there are going to be consequences for him - he's doing his best, but he's very unlkely to get particularly impressive GCSEs (and yes, he is smart). His A-level options will be limited. He is surprisingly good at science, for example, his teacher sees it ad we can all see it. He understands it in a way that certainly, I never did. But he's still not getting good results because the act of needing to memorise a bunmch of facts and then put them out is hard. Arguably, if he wants to do anything in science, he has to have mastered this which is fair enough - I don't want a researcher or physiotherapist who can't remmeber this stuff either - but it means even though he COULD do these things in theory, he probably won't be able to go down those routes as a career. And that makes me, and him, sad. (lucily, he's also the most determined person I've ever met so he will put in the extra work to try and get there and he might even make it, but the amount of work it will take him vs someone else.... well, night and day).

I have a DD who has been diagnosed with ADHD and feels it explains alot of her behaviour and how her brain works. When she told me I could relate to some of the symptoms she mentioned and checked the NHS website. I have all the same symptoms but there's nothing I plan to do with the info.

Which of course is your choice. If the symptoms you have do not stop you from living a productive happy life then why would you pursue it? However if you're one of us who spent their life feeling like they were wading through treacle and whom could not work out why things that were so simple for others but so hard for us, maybe you'd want to look into it more.
You do you.

@JoeySchoolOfActing Yes, you've hit the nail on the head with "dismissive", that's exactly how this article felt to me. And the fact that HF writes so wonderfully with empathy and nuance on so many other issues makes it all the more painful to read.

Although it shouldn't, reading this has totally reversed my newly made conviction to be a bit more open about my ASD diagnosis in future. I feel that my parents (themselves almost certainly also ND) wouldn't understand which is why I haven't shared already.

On the other hand, I feel like not saying anything suggests to my teenager that having ASD is something to be ashamed of. I'm in that classic situation where school raised questions about DS and whether he might be autistic, then I realised I was. DS was assessed and found not to meet the threshold for an ASD diagnosis. He has some traits, but these don't cause particular issues for him.

I don't want him to think that I'm ashamed of my diagnosis, as I'm not. It's been hugely helpful for me and for my husband to understand why I find some things so difficult to cope with. Anyone who doesn't live with me wouldn't see the daily struggles that I go through to get through the day, so I'm reluctant to share in case I'm met with this kind of response.

DS doctor made it clear to us that the only reason to ever do anything about ADHD is if it is materially negatively impactign your life.

Also, I wanted to add that all this hand wringing about "no one who ever seeks a diagnosis doesn't get one".... well, sure, because as an adult, you're surely not goign to seek a diagnosis unless it's pretty bad surely? (or, admittedly, you're a wanker whose looking for an exuse but hey, I knew a man once who claimed he couldn't work, or do any childcare, for 3 weeks because of minor surgery on his nose, and had a client who ran a small business but had one employee refuse to come in, or even work from home (office job) because she had sprained her ankle, also for three weeks. So it's not a problem unique to ND diagnoses).

I have some ADHD traits. But a) I can manage them and b) when I, out of interest, type into one of those online ADHD things (that are all backed by clinics wanting to charge you to get a diagnosis) I come up consistently with "some traits, unlikely to meet the criteria for ADHD".

@VioletIndigoBlueGreen I have a condition that could probably be classed as a minor disability, and that certainly in its more extreme form, absolutely IS for some people. However, in my case, it doesn't impact anyone except me in 95% of cases. So I only "disclose" this disability in two scenarios:

• To close friends who I perhaps would like to understand that I'm in pain so might not be at my best and/or because it means I might not be up for that walk/activity as usual and/or (and this one is probably the main one because I find it embarassing) if we're out and I realise I'm doing something that looks a bit physically awkward, often without realising, because I'm compensating during a time when the issue is flaring up.
• To work when it directly impacts what I'm doing. As an office worker, this is limited. Formally, I have only had to do this in the context of occassionally needing a slightly different desk set up - nothing major and hasn't even been necessary in every job. Informally occassionally when, for example, ideas for team building get knocked around and it's something I simply can't do.

@OhBling thanks for sharing those examples. I think this is the kind of disclosing I'm aiming for too. I haven't shared with work because I work in a sector where ND is very common and have a very autonomous role so no need for further accommodations.

I wouldn't feel a need to share with all and sundry socially either, but perhaps just one or two close friends if the circumstances were relevant.

I would like to share with my parents as we are very close and I feel that not mentioning this is a huge thing. However, they're unlikely to understand and/or might start to worry about this from their own perspective which feels like an unnecessary burden to put on them.

When I was diagnosed, the advice I was given was not to share too quickly or too widely as you can't then unshare. I've only told my husband and teenager, and this was mid 2022, so I think I've yet to hit on the right level of sharing really.