Argument at work

[CromartyForth]

NT for this, but long-time poster.

A female family member was diagnosed as autistic last year. They saw many similarities between their behaviour and difficulties and my own (I'm also female), and encouraged me also to seek a diagnosis. I now have a appointment in a few months' time for an ASD assessment.

I'm a teacher, and have taught in the same school for 15+ years. It's always been cliquey, and I've never been part of the clique - all my life, I've felt like the odd one out. There's also an element of uncanny valley, I think, from the NT to the ND. Anyhow, I wasn't especially bothered about this until about eighteen months ago someone let slip that there was a staff WhatsApp social group which pretty much everyone - support staff, too - had been invited to join except me and a few others. I was upset about this, and went into the staff room less and less; it just doesn't feel at all a welcoming place to me.

Yesterday, I was standing by the kettle and a member of the clique asked me why I hadn't gone to the Christmas social. Me being ND, I explained that I had been deliberately excluded from the WhatsApp group, and therefore didn't feel like socialising with colleagues on the rare occasions they asked me to. She didn't take this well.

Only now do I realise that the colleague wasn't actually seeking information, but saying I'd like some superficially friendly conversation whilst I wait for the kettle to boil. I don't think I'm ever going to get the hang of NT communication.

I'm not really sure what I want from this thread, other than - hopefully - some validation that other ND mumsnetters find NT conversations difficult, too.

That sounds horrible, OP. Not sure that it is acceptable to exclude people in a workplace WhatsApp group. In general though, autistic or not, there are people who like to exclude others. It is mean but it is life. I would look at spending time with other people who 'get ' you and not worry about being excluded.

I'm awaiting assessment. I think you did bloody marvellously. Why should you care about their feelings when they don't care about yours? I wouldn't give it a second thought.

I like your response, it was honest. You’re probably right that the expectation was social chit chat and you should have made an excuse.

But tellling the truth seems a positive in those circumstances, why should you protect her from the consequences of your being socially excluded?

The problem is not with you.

Put it much better than me

ND too and i have to bite my tongue to not say stuff like this because the NTs don't like it when you're too honest. I think what you said was fine though. You weren't nasty - and certainly not anywhere near as nasty as deliberately excluding you from the xmas social.

You’re not the problem here OP.

I’m diagnosed autistic, and would have given a truthful response to the question like you did. She asked, you answered. If she doesn’t take well to authenticity, it’s probably best that she refrains from asking straight questions.

I'm autistic and I've dropped a few accidental truth bombs. Although I do end up beating myself up about it for days/weeks/forever, you have to learn to let it go. It's not your fault.

Thank you, you lovely, lovely ND people. I'm feeling better about it already.

@Donotgogentle and @StrictlyAFemaleFemale , that's it, exactly. Why should I tiptoe round their feelings when they don't care about mine?

I don't see an issue. If she didn't want to hear the answer she shouldn't have asked the question. I'm also diagnosed though lol

I'm NT (with ND DC) my opinion for what its worth is that you answered the question you were asked. I think you answered it perfectly, your colleagues have made you feel excluded to the point you don't go into the staff room as often anymore so it's a bit rich to suddenly come over all "friendly chat whilst the kettle boils"

If your colleague wanted a superficial chat they should've spoken about the weather. I wouldn't give this another thought OP apart from to congratulate yourself on being honest and standing up to bullies. Let's hope your colleague feels suitably ashamed for being two faced and getting called out and rethinks their behaviour towards others

No diagnosis but lots of family with and I'm the same as them

I cannot hold text/whatsapp/etc conversations with people. I struggle without the face to face mannerisms and inevitably fall out with people as I get it wrong.

Totally understand what you are getting at OP

You gave a truthful and honest answer to the question. You did nothing wrong.

Incidentally, I also work in a school. I'm support staff. It is the most cliquey and bitchy workplace I've ever worked in. It never ceases to amaze me that in an environment where we aim to model good and inclusive behaviour to children, there are staff members who won't venture into the staffroom due to the negativity.

The response sounds like to me that maybe they didn’t know you weren’t on the group?

Seriously are you being purposefully excluded (which is awful) or have they inadvertently left you off (possible with so many in the group and as you have mentioned you aren’t overly social).

I think since you didn’t know for sure it’s fine to be honest but Saturn something like “oh I didn’t know about it. Unfortunately there is a what’s app group that I haven’t been added to” may be better.

i say this because the person asking may not have known you weren’t on the group. It isn’t their fault specifically and they may not have admin privileges.

You can be honest which is perfectly fine but your response while understandable could be construed as rude.

if you don’t care then fair enough, but if you wanted adding this wasn’t the way to go about it.

I’m NT, as far as I know.

I have been badly bullied in the past. I think asking someone you’ve excluded why they didn’t go to a social is pretty mean.

I may be mishearing the tone, but she may have been being actively being unpleasant.

If she didn't like hearing the truth, that's a her problem. Maybe she shouldn't have acted that way in the first place.

You did well but maybe ask who is the admin of the WhatsApp group so you could be added.

I think if she asked you, she probably wasn’t aware you aren’t in the WhatsApp group. I don’t know who’s in all my WhatsApp groups - I only notice the people who are messaging all the time.

I heard from a neighbour a while back that there was a street WA group, and I asked her to add me to it. She said ‘sure!’ And it was fine. I think sometimes we assume these things are very organised and invite-only and a lot of thought goes into who’s in and who’s out, when they are actually more slapdash and the only way to be added is to ask.

ND and NT and whatever she meant by her interaction - good on you for saying the truth. They do need to hear being excluded makes people feel like shit especially when you then wonder why these same people are socialising with you.

Fwiw it's worth my ds is autistic. Sometime I wish I had his lack of emotional attachment and social gymnastics to answer questions like that honestly.

Instead I'd try and find every way not to say something that upsets someone.

But like you pointed out - they haven't given a shit that they've excluded you and therefore that may upset you.

@atotalshambles the HT and personnel manager are aware of the situation, but feel they can't do anything as it's a WhatsApp social group and the clique can therefore invite / exclude anyone they see fit.

@Whydoeseveryonewanttoargue @emmax1980 @VoltaireMittyDream the woman definitely knows I'm not part of the WA group, and even had the nerve to accuse me of being bitter! Nobody has ever offered to add me to it, and everyone claims not to know who the administrator is. It's definitely deliberate. She said they can choose to socialise with people they like - the clear implication being they don't like me.

@LyndaSnellsSniff yes, it's so ironic that we are meant to model inclusive and tolerant behaviour, but they are happy to behave in this way.

Incidentally, I don't want to join the WA group; they've shown me very clearly who they are. However, I think there should be an open invitation to anyone who works there and does want to be on it to be included. That's my heightened autistic sense of justice speaking.

Oh, and the interaction finished with her saying, "Oh, forget it, CromartyForth, I was just trying to be friendly."

No, you were being insincere. I despise insincerity.

@CromartyForth the heart reaction I just gave was specifically for you not the situation you were in.

my adult child partners recently started the process, at the gps strong advice, for ADHD. We are all pretty sure they will be diagnosed as su ch.

It doesn't seem a big deal to me, but they want to understand themselves better, so I'm support ive. But whatever the outcome, they are who they are, and both me and my child love them for who they are and we've both, quite separately, made them aware of that love.

you are you. Just because Neuro typical people are the majority doesn't mean we have to be pandered to.

and I'm pretty sure I've made any number of faux pa as in this post, so if like to apolagise, in advance.

Op

These people are assholes. There’ll be one or three who are the leaders plenty others many well put you in the group but maybe too afraid to say anything

I know it stings but they are not worth your energy