ADHD mentor

[WorriesMum23]

Hi

my dd (13) has the worse adhd the school has ever seen

the big issue is she just can not let an argument lie or understand the teacher is not her mate. She sees injustice in every telling off and is ultimately disruptive.

we are on course for medication but due to shortages this keeps getting delayed

so my question- is there somewhere I could find a mentor? Someone with adhd who understands how she feels but also can explain how being disruptive and argumentative is not helpful. Kind of explain the rules of the game I suppose.

she’s a good kid and the school acknowledge that she is trying and she deep down wants to succeed and ‘be good’ but she’s struggling and any conversation with me ends in ‘you don’t understand’

ADHD mum of an ADHD 13 year old DD who could
argue for the UN.

Are her arguments evidenced or is it a way of expressing her emotions? Is it a place and time thing (inappropriate to do it during a lesson, should ask to speak to the teacher at break time?).

(I’m 30 years on in my journey and still find myself arguing with randoms online at 3am. But can behave (just) when I need to!)

It’s a place and time thing

example - teacher tells her off for talking. She points out another girl was also talking. Teacher engages in debate on topic. Dd can’t let it go and I want her to understand that if a teacher tells you to be quiet you shut up

there is a marked difference between teachers as some just shut it down immediately but in life she is going to have to understand how these situations work

Okay. It’s the impulsivity kicking in. Plus the injustice button being pressed. Plus strengthening feeling.

There is some stuff here you might be able to practice over half term at home.

https://dandelionfamilycounseling.com/2020/07/26/adhd-treatment-parenting-the-argumentative-child/#:~:text=Children%20with%20ADHD%20tend%20to,intensely%20than%20those%20without%20ADHD.

DD’s SENCO has been brilliant in connecting me with her teachers and discussing what works well for DD as it’s such a personal thing. This may be a helpful discussion tool with school? They may need to provide her with opportunities to let off steam appropriately, maybe?

https://www.adhdfoundation.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Teaching-and-Managing-Students-with-ADHD.pdf

ADHD children have emotional delay of around 30% of their age. My DD is somewhere around 11 with hers and often needs help to understand why she feels something so strongly. I find taking her off in the car helps her to open up. Some of my response is “life’s not fair” but often I can help her to reframe things or to understand why something has to work in a particular way. Sometimes we find ways to change things for the better. For example she was furious (from being deeply uncomfortable) by the white PE t-shirt in year 5 and 6. So we talked about how she could explain that to teachers who may not have thought about it before. She went to her teacher who went to the head who changed it to white or black within a week.

it’s about picking your battles.

Her senco isn’t really involved - I mainly deal with her head of year. We have talked about positivity and not engaging her negatively (so cutting dead any debate). She does remove herself from lessons when she’s feeling too much but it’s becoming a bit too regular.

she does seem to lack the ability to self regulate and the impulsivity is off the charts

do you have any strategies for reining in the impulsivity?

we are worryingly close to expulsion

that dandelion counselling looks great. Shame they are in the us

I'm struggling to find techniques so she can help herself

First challenge is getting her to recognise when it’s coming. Always best identified after the event in a safe space.

once she can do that, anything that centres her - square breathing or 54321

That’s helpful. Thank you

other problem is that she doesn’t recognise her behaviour is inappropriate. Not helped by her friendship group. It’s all so frustrating

No worries. It’s a minefield!

Can she rant to you after school? Have a debrief? Create an appropriate space for her to say what she needs to say to have her emotions aired?

You’re not saying she is wrong to feel things, just that where/how she expresses that can be problematic.

She’s obsessed with her friends so she only really talks to them.

Sounds like she may be struggling with Rejection sensitivity too, which can be physically painful to some.

Yes big time! It would be much easier to deal with her over sensitivity if she wasn’t so vile to me!!!

I honestly don’t know if school is just wrong for her and if another system would suit her better

Can you do some love bombing away from school and let her see that you love her and want to help her?

I’ve told DD repeatedly the only thing I would ever be furious about is if she caused the emergency services to be called needlessly. I sympathise with her that school is crap and doesn’t easily allow for difference of thought and there are some rules we follow and others we push. And different ways to be heard.

Air cadets has been immensely helpful for her. I worried that such a regimented structure would challenge her need to rebel but it’s been the making of her. There is such a sense of teamwork and so many opportunities to get dopamine hits through all the activities.

is she occupied out of school doing things she enjoys? Not necessarily group activities but productive things?

School need to be aware that she isn’t choosing this. It’s a reaction to the way her brain works. They need to know you’re working on it but they may need to make some changes too. We have been so lucky with the pastoral care she’s had which has supported the academic. Her teachers all commented on how well she debates her point of view and that it encourages others to share their views. Could she maybe channel her energies that way?

it’s so tough for us mums. I was only diagnosed last year and thinking about how my life might have been different had I had support at this age keeps me going for DD.

(at the moment DD wants to be a traffic cop. I have a lead right foot. I foresee trouble in the future!)

Personally (I also have ADHD plus an ADHD teen) I don't think this is an emotional immaturity thing, I think it's a lack of inhibitory control thing. Exactly something that medication helps with so fingers crossed you get somewhere with that. Essentially there is a brain function which helps you recognise when you're about to put your foot in your mouth and holds you back from it but it is impaired in ADHD. Likely any kind of punitive approach won't work because essentially she's not thinking before she speaks.

I would try talking to her at a neutral time without the aim of getting her to see your point of view, and when she says you don't understand, really try to understand it from her point of view even if you can see a bigger picture as the adult. It likely does feel genuinely unfair to her. She may be more willing to take on board your perspective if she believes that you genuinely see her side but you have to start by sitting on your hands and really listening to her side with a totally open mind.

Does she recognise hierarchy in any form ever? If not, you might look at some tips for PDA, though TBH I think some of the PDA approaches could be counterproductive.

I am going to try over half term but she’s just so desperate to be with her friends

they certainly rely on her to get discussions going and often sit her with new girls as they know she will befriend them

after school she only does one afternoon of sport but I struggle to get her to go to things as her friends don’t seem to do anything either

if the medication helps that would be amazing

do you think IB is better than a levels for kids with adhd?

She's only 13 so I'd get her through GCSEs first!

I'd guess A-Levels might be better since they allow you to specialise right down to four favourite subjects, whereas IB is quite wide and means she'd have to study lots of different things. That said, I left school at 16 and went to college to do a vocational art/design course which would probably have worked well for me if I'd known about my ADHD but since I didn't, I really struggled with the time management and organisation aspects and didn't actually complete the course.

My DS is quite motivated by what his friends are doing too. I've given up trying to fight this and just lean into it now. Luckily he has a really good, supportive and motivated group of friends.

I’ve been looking at other schools and there’s one that does IB and the precursor rather than GCSEs and I wondered if it would be better as more subjects but less deep and focussed

I wish her friends were kinder and less encouraging of her ‘naughtiness’ by egging her on

I don't know, then. I got the impression IB is quite rigorous.

I don’t know either! I am. I’m not a massive fan of GCSEs tbh and I think she will struggle with all the exams

It's not really about the rules of the game. That is just encouraging masking and implying she is the inconvenice/problem. Its more helpful to look at it neutrally, and explore what the triggers are that she reaches the point that she explodes. Working memory overload, sensory sensitivity, sleep, all of these things, also not having instructions explained clearly, not being communicated with in an ND friendly way. Often people assume you know what they mean, no that is very hard work for an ND person to decipher what is meant, (we tend to go for the literal meaning first), and if you are a Child even harder, as you have changing hormones and less impulse control.

I'd get a book and work throught it together with her. There's one called Smart But Scattered Guide to Success for Teens. I have the adult one.