Dirty looks/being rude/lacking diplomacy/looking at people funny etc

[AlternativelyWired]

Dd gets told she is rude. She's not, she's just honest and wouldn't think to lie or say something in a nicer way. She just says what she thinks although she does try really hard not to offend people. This got me thinking to back when I was a teenager/young adult and I'd get accused of giving people dirty looks. I'd be baffled as I wouldn't even realise I had been looking at them as a million things had passed through my head since that moment.

Now that I'm older I often find that DD's facial expressions match my thoughts when looking at something or someone. It's a processing face. It's not a dirty look, it's is trying to figure stuff out. It's not personal.

I've learnt to hold my tongue now but was always told as a child not to pursue a career in diplomacy. Even though I tried really hard to phrase things so as not to upset people I invariably did upset them and then felt guilty as hell.

I was reading a style and beauty thread earlier and it reminded me I how I can feel my face going 😧😵‍💫🤨🥴🫤🫡😐 when I see some of the eyebrows and orange foundation on the school kids getting on the bus for example. My face does it before I've even realised and I have to quickly put my face back to neutral. It's part judgement I admit but mainly my brain trying to process what I'm seeing. I look at people a lot and I've realised it's because I'm trying to comprehend the concept of normal and what other people are like. I find people both fascinating and alien. DD is the same and I can see her doing it even though she has no idea she is.
Can anyone relate to this?

When I was a teenager I didn’t understand how to be tactful. I would just tell the truth and people would get upset or annoyed. I remember a neighbour inviting us in to see her newly decorated kitchen and getting angry because I said I didn’t like it and it wasn’t my taste. Tact is something you learn as you get older.

However, I still get told I’m rude even now. Apparently because I’m factual and unemotional. I once texted MIL to say we couldn’t make it for a visit and she got really upset - because I’d literally said we couldn’t make it, and apparently I should have expressed regret and said I’m so sorry, we are devastated, hope we can reschedule soon, kiss kiss. Which seems like unnecessary nonsense to me.

Dirty looks are a constant problem too. People accuse me of it all the time, to the extent that I often wear dark glasses so people can’t see my eyes. Usually I’m not even looking at them on purpose and certainly not thinking anything.

Teenagers are forever accusing each other of ‘dirty looks’ etc. it rarely means anything. Teenage brains lose a lot of their ability to identify facial expressions

@Suddha I wear sunglasses all year round. Even in the rain unless it's torrential. I'm very sensitive to the light and the works just seems so bright.

@12Thorns yes, I'm aware of that but past the teen years it's no longer a teen thing. I'm in my 40s and still get accused of it.

I've just realised this might have shown up in Active and therefore people don't realise it's the neurodiverse board.

12Thorns it isn’t a teenage thing, it’s an autism thing. We regularly get accused of not having the appropriate facial expression and some people interpret that as a dirty look.

And it’s a completely standard teenage thing. As referred to in pp

I said teenage/young adult but my list is about being neurodiverse and my experience of that and how it affects relationships because of how people perceive my face that has a mind of its own.

12Thorns neither OP nor myself are teenagers. Struggling with appropriate facial expressions is a common difficulty with neurodiverse conditions such as autism. OP and I both still have difficulty with it in our 40s.

@mnhq this is exactly why we keep asking for posts on the Neurodiverse board NOT to appear in Active. Because then we get people NTsplaining to us that difficulties relating to our disabilities are just standard teenage problems.

Your op refers to being a teenager. I find it offensive to be accused of ‘NTsplaining’. This is a public forum. If you post about an issue, you need to expect people to respond. Particularly in cases such as this where you have simply described having a standard teenage issue as a teenager, and have had it mentioned to you that it is a standard teenage issue.

And your assumption that I am NT is plain ignorant

I don't think you're ND, 12Thorns. You've not posted on this board before which is one sign, and you so post about teenagers' behaviours which makes me think you jumped here because the OP mentioned teenagers. If you are autistic or adhd you'd know that having the "wrong" expression is a common accusation made by NTs of ND people. So jog on

I had completely forgotten this but as I read your post I remembered annoying girls at school telling me "you give people dirty looks". I never understood what they were on about! Diagnosed with ADHD as an adult, and descriptions of autistic things do sometimes ring bells for me.

Anyway, I sympathize with your DD and think probably not much she can do, except know that she won't be a teenager having to put up with judgemental teenage classmates forever :)

Because since I've grown up, no one has actually been that rude to me, even if I do probably still do it!

Anyone would think my post was purely about teenage dirty looks.
This is the neurodiverse board and I am asking other ND mumsnet gets if they also experience what I experience. Yes, it's a public forum but also very clearly a ND board. @12Thorns you haven't contributed to the thread except to dismiss my experiences.

This is something I've had a problem with all my life, one of the few good things about the pandemic is I could hide my puzzled/confused/angry face behind a mask, I used to people watching to try and mimic/copy and have been told that this is a dirty or intense look even when I thought I was smiling, sometimes my outward face doesn't reflect my inner feelings.

I can totally relate, my DH says I give people funny looks without realising it
Or I think people are giving me dirty looks, it then becomes a viscous circle, I look at some one, probably with a strange expression, they look at me thinking what are they looking at, I think they are staring at me so look back to check, they think what the hell and the circle goes on
Also I have trouble recognising faces, so quite often I see a stranger and think they look like someone I know so I have to keep looking to figure out who they are, then I realise I don't know them, by which point they are wondering why on earth I keep looking at them
It's got me into a lot of trouble before, including being attacked in a night club

I can’t recognise faces well at all, even my own family. There was one stage of around 15 years when I couldn’t tell my brothers apart. Thankfully one has now gone bald. But if the other one eventually does too, I’ll be stumped again

I just find the best way to deal with it is complete honestly and hope no one feels hurt

the worst thing I find is I get accused of being racist

Yes, I have this. I say my face is ‘leaky’ - I have to make a conscious effort to mask how I am feeling in meetings online or in person.

also have a significant resting grumpy face, if you know what I mean. I am not grumpy - I am a very positive person with happy thoughts. Men often used to tell me to cheer up. Not so much now I am old!

I can relate, although it's only in recent years that i've realised i do have autistic tendencies. As a child my mother frequently slapped my face as she didn't like the way i was looking at her. I still often have problems with people becoming upset with the way i say things when i honestly mean no harm and am accused of being rude. I am a long way past my teenage years!! 😅

Masks are great for hiding behind even if they are annoying. Mask and sunglasses as long as they aren't steaming up was/is even better.
I've just remembered a time at uni in my mid20s and with lots of food issues and I was looking at a plate of food my housemate had made. It was something I'd never seen or eaten before and I was told I was looking at it with disgust. I denied it but was told I always do it. I am not suited to communal living at all what with noise and smells and people just being people.

One of my favourite school photos was taken of ds when he was 5 - he has a “perplexed and not particularly liking this experience” look on his face. He made the exact same face when he saw his photo. It was just so perfectly, honestly him!

I suspect one of the reasons I’m drawn to people with autistic traits is that their faces are easier to read. I know we’re the ones who mask but in a sense it’s as if our masks aren’t welded on and the energy is trying to keep them in place - nt people have excellent masking.

@AlternativelyWired My OH frequently says that I 'can lie with my mouth, but not my face' - as an autistic person, I have learned to reproduce a certain amount of tact / diplomacy in my 40-odd years, but unfortunately, my expressions haven't caught up yet.

It's one of the reasons I am thankful for full-time remote working in an organisation that is pretty accepting of 'cameras off' on calls.

(Interestingly, I also suffer from mild face blindness, as per other PPs.)

Oh, and FFS @mnhq, for the 40-billionth time, can we PLEASE remove ND board posts from showing up in Active?!