Daughter says musical instruments are for men in pop music - how do I prove her wrong?

[mids2019]

My daughter play a the guitar and electric guitar.

I was trying to think of really good female electric guitar players to act as role models and actually struggled (my bad). Men however, Clapton, Hendrix, Marr etc. The list goes on. In fact when I watch bands it always seems to be be men on supporting instruments generally.

Modern pop music seems to equate women with good looks/sex appeal/ singing and there isn't much variation. Taylor Swift, Sabrina Carpenter , Arianna Grande, Tate McRae etc. etc. However the more heavy weight bands in pop cukture, The Beatles, Stones, Queen, Bowie are all male.

I am now seeing classical music as the genre where you have true gender equality and opportunities so I am trying to get my daughter to see at least a classical concert for this reason (as well as the music being brilliant). Am I wrong in this view??

There’s a list here of names mostly not mentioned in the thread: https://www.udiscovermusic.com/stories/best-female-guitarists/

Also I don’t think anyone’s brought up the Australian Orianthi.

What, every single night on a world wide tour?

Also tell her to Google Jennifer Batten who was responsible for the incredible guitar riff in beat it by Michael Jackson and also the grandma of drums dorethea Taylor. She just rocks.

Karen carpenter was the most amazing drummer ❤️

I see earlier upthread carole King was mentioned, I'm unsure if this would be your dd's jam, however there is a very interesting story about how carole King essentially stole songs from a black woman who she employed named 'little eva', it's a terribly sad but interesting story.

Women of colour are often forgotten about when it comes to playing instruments but Nina Simone was phenomenal.

Also Amy Winehouse played guitar.
The Amy Winehouse film on Netflix is a good watch, I recently watched it with my DS.

OP, the biggest artist in the world right now plays guitar and is female ( yes, Taylor Swift).
Not sure why you are discounting her?

@NooNakedJacuzziness (prefacing this to say only the first paragraph is directed to you. The second paragraph is more of a general vent as a woman in the industry) I mean, even just the opening song of Wicked is surely enough to show Ariana's vocal range. They do show these sides of themselves, it's up to us how much we bother to look though. As someone else said earlier if we simply skim these artists we can't expect to have a full idea of their abilities.

No wonder it's so hard for women to prove themselves if we're constantly told whatever we do isn't enough and we need to show more of this, that or the other. Women have more than proven themselves in the music industry.

Current acts:
The Last Dinner Party, especially the lead guitarist Emily who is a monster guitar player
St Vincent - Annie Clark is a legend
Nita Strauss - incredible metal guitarist
Wet Leg - very current pop act
Lzzy Hale - lead singer and guitarist of Halestorm
Sophie Lloyd - huge on YouTube and tiktok
The Warning - stadium-filling all female rock band

I can think of many, many more current and past acts. If you only listen to commercial pop then, sure no female guitarists, but no guitars at all really - you need to listen to indie, rock, metal, blues, jazz and then you will find thousands of incredible female musicians.

Here’s Emily from The Last Dinner Party going full axe hero: https://youtube.com/shorts/Px_CJ1dNVIs?si=btN0aY0VtIBuVaGk

Oh and I completely forgot the amazing Nova Twins:

And there are loads of great Japanese bands too, check Hanabie and Guitar Rei.

Fender in particular are going out of their way to support female artists and have loads of great female acts on their Fender Player Plus Sessions on YouTube.

I think it's the pop genre. Loads of men in 'pop' don't play instruments either. I suspect loads of women do but have been told to put their instruments down as they obscure the body. Tragic really. Look at rock and indie and there's a huge wave of great women playing instruments and writing their own songs.

I completely get what you're saying @turkeybroth . I think the industry pushes women a certain way and it's difficult for them to show their other musical abilities. Unless you really look into an artist you don't realise what else they can do, whereas I feel I don't need to look too hard to see men with guitars. Maybe Ariana needs to make more videos of her playing the French horn but I doubt that's what her management want!

Harry styles has a female drummer

Have you got somewhere with jam sessions? I guarantee there will be some awesome girls / women playing there. It’s where lots of young people cut their teeth.

Also Suzanne Vega

Fergal Sharkey had two female drummers playing at the same time in his band. Their names escape my menopause addled memory but one was from the Go Gos

I'm guessing that the posters bemoaning the lack of female musicians in the current pop charts haven't properly listened to much contemporary chart music, a cursory look at major, best-selling female artists of the last couple of years will show you that most of them play instruments as well as writing their own songs, it's very much expected of artists now.

Shakira

St Vincent

Christine and the Queens

Sara Bareiiles

im trying think of women I've listened to this year but you might want to go back further.

Where are you looking though? Things like the NPR Tiny Desk Concerts are very well known.

in my experience, people who say "x person doesn't do anything" only knows something from the radio or worse, a photo from a tabloid.

also don't forget how much comes from a computer and women are very involved in production. I spoke to a teen (so forgiveable 😂) who hadn't realised Taylor would have a cello player on stage for some songs.

sad to say I have family members who think modern music is crap. But they're also surprised by the sight of an electric violin. Like they got stuck in an era from before they were born. It's weird to me.

You have to look very hard to see anyone playing guitars (or any other instruments) in commercial pop at the moment. The genre is completely dominated by singer/producer acts with the occasional girl/boy band thrown in.

Look outside of commercial chart music and you will see loads of amazing female musicians without having to delve into the history books.

To add, Hole, L7, Elastica, Lush, Abdul Lavinge, Sarah MacLaughkin, Tori Amos, Artic Fire

Edited to add more names as they came to me.

Absolutely and so did Prince.

What I mean is that (unfortunately!) you have to look into it to find what else women can do, whereas stick the tv on randomly and there will be blokes on guitars. I'm not saying it's right. The OP's daughter is obviously finding this too

Not so much in pop although as pp have said lady gaga is a talented musician.
she might like:
Self esteem
Sir chloe
phoebe bridgers
Haim
Habibi
Arcade Fire (mixed band of musicians)
Dum Dum girls
Karen O (genius)
Wet Leg
Ladytron (mixed band but both women play synth)
The Slits

PJ Harvey, can't think of anyone male or female more accomplished and plays several instruments.

Kim Deal
Joan Jett
Kim Gordon
L7
Bikini kill
Gail Ann Dorsey
Victoria D'Angelis
The Go Go's

If I look back to pop in my youth, prime boy band era Take That, West Life, Blue, Spice Girls, Backstreet boys, then the pop princesses like Christina, Britney it's hard to spot an instrument playing artist.

But today things really are quite different, artists seem to have more to do with their music, more song writing, more creative direction, actually talented and multi faceted musicians, rather than being stuck together into a group as they can vaguely hold a tune.

Yes the likes of Sabrina Carpenter has found a niche in her risque songs and performances but she writes her music and plays a character for adults not everything has to be for children.

Olivia Rodrigo is very much like Avril Lavigne, another guitar player.

Chappelle Roan and Lady Gaga have a similar feeling and both play instruments.

Just about everyone in country and Americana play guitar.

I am now seeing classical music as the genre where you have true gender equality and opportunities

Lol.

I doubt most people could name ten female composers. Or even five. Women have always written music and always played music, but everyone pays more attention to what men do.