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Taylor Swift - The Tortured Poet's Department - album discussion thread

499 replies

OldHabitsDieScreaming · 18/04/2024 10:58

Hello Swifties! Thought I would start a thread to chat about TS11 or TTPD or whatever we're calling it 😁Don't know about you but the excitement is building for this old-enough-to-know-better Swiftie and I'll be taking the long way into work tomorrow so I can listen to it in Peace...(see what I did there?)

So this thread is for anyone who loves TS and wants to talk/think/muse/swoon over the newest output from the hardest-working woman in music!

Personally I'm intrigued and delighted that Aaron Dessner seems to have co-writing credits on several tracks - I'm a committed Folklore/Evermore fan and more in a similar vein will be very welcome!

(Oh, and while hopefully this doesn't need saying, please don't bother posting to say how shit/overrated/talentless you think TS is. This is a fan / appreciation thread about a specific piece of work and it would be lovely to keep it that way.)

OP posts:
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tabulahrasa · 23/04/2024 15:58

MintyFurball · 23/04/2024 15:32

I think she was bouncing around her eras in more ways than just musical style in this album - the “yah boo, my mum wished you dead” of Thankyouaimee” isn’t exactly the standard line of a songwriter in her mid 30s but absolutely would have featured on her earlier albums.

Yes, I think there’s loads of callbacks, musically, lyrically, stylistically

From - The manuscript

The Professor said to write what you know
Lookin' backwards
Might be the only way to move forward

And at last
She knew what the agony had been for
The only thing that's left is the manuscript
One last souvenir from my trip to your shores
Now and then I reread the manuscript
But the story isn't mine anymore

Ive seen her say in interviews about all too well specifically that it doesn’t matter who it was about when she wrote it because the fans took it and made it their own (paraphrasing)

But IMO anyway, I think that’s what this whole album might be, looking back, sending it out there to become something else and move on.

IamII · 23/04/2024 18:50

I'm listening again and it strikes me that this is prose and not poetry. None of it catches me sonically, plenty of the lines are great, it's just so very dense. Feels like a novel, not short stories that hang together.

taylorswift1989 · 23/04/2024 18:54

It's not prose or poetry, it's music and lyrics.

I agree it's novelistic in scope.

OldHabitsDieScreaming · 23/04/2024 19:22

@KitKatChunki I love the humour in her lyrics. She's the only songwriter I know who can make me both laugh (genuinely) and cry (genuinely) - sometimes in the same song! Her delivery often plays a part, but some of my favourite lyrics are:

Wearing a gown shaped like a pastry
Now the sun burns my heart, and the sand hurts my feelings
I guess I'll just stumble on home to my cats....alone
She thinks I'm psycho cos I like to rhyme her name with things
Did you see the photos? No, I didn't but thanks though

Etc etc. Anyway, digression from TTPD, but it just really makes me smile.

OP posts:
KitKatChunki · 23/04/2024 19:37

OldHabitsDieScreaming · 23/04/2024 19:22

@KitKatChunki I love the humour in her lyrics. She's the only songwriter I know who can make me both laugh (genuinely) and cry (genuinely) - sometimes in the same song! Her delivery often plays a part, but some of my favourite lyrics are:

Wearing a gown shaped like a pastry
Now the sun burns my heart, and the sand hurts my feelings
I guess I'll just stumble on home to my cats....alone
She thinks I'm psycho cos I like to rhyme her name with things
Did you see the photos? No, I didn't but thanks though

Etc etc. Anyway, digression from TTPD, but it just really makes me smile.

After the sadness of loml I wasn't expecting the computer arcade plastic fantastic of "I'm so depressed I act like it's my birthday! Every day." I think a lot of us have been in that crazed state post break up, especially with social media.

tabulahrasa · 23/04/2024 20:12

KitKatChunki · 23/04/2024 19:37

After the sadness of loml I wasn't expecting the computer arcade plastic fantastic of "I'm so depressed I act like it's my birthday! Every day." I think a lot of us have been in that crazed state post break up, especially with social media.

I love - I can do it with a broken heart

I have a public facing job where I have to be “on” I mean not performing the eras tour levels 😂 but I sometimes have had to be there, doing my job and being cheerful etc while there’s other stuff going on in my life

it also made me think of the way you sometimes have to be like that when you’ve fairly young children, having to pretend everything is ok so it’s normal for them when stuff is hapoening.

like the Emma Thomson scene in love actually

OldHabitsDieScreaming · 24/04/2024 12:04

OK, it's official, there's not a single skip on this album for me. That is incredible and a first for me with TS.

It really, really rewards close and repeated listening. I was worried when I played it through first time on Friday that it was a bit samey, 'oh, not enough bops', etc. But each song is emerging individually and I genuinely love something about every single track, to the point where I'm not sure I can even name favourites. They've all just burrowed their way into my brain, to the point I'm waking up in the middle of light with lyrics I didn't even realise I knew spinning through my head 🤔

Ugh, she's fucking amazing.

OP posts:
TTPD · 24/04/2024 12:49

I think for me, Robin and The Alchemy are ones I'm less keen on.

As an aside, Aaron Dessner has a son called Robin.

taylorswift1989 · 24/04/2024 12:59

I'm skipping Florida and Robin. But that's it really.

Just watched this and it's saying so much that I've been trying to articulate to myself about the album. Well worth a watch.

The Tortured Poets Department isn’t actually all about Joe & Matty 🤯 HOT TAKE

I don’t know how many of you all will agree with me on this, but I’d love to hear everyone’s thoughts! I think this album more so than a lot of Taylor’s othe...

https://youtu.be/8OkEcHS5QPs?si=3V-8-csv05mv5eso

larkstar · 24/04/2024 14:48

@SandHurtsMyFeelings
"Sonically I haven't found it that exciting."
"But lyrically this is a lot...And there are just so many words to process."
I agree with this.

@BehemothWatermelon
"Nothing is grabbing me as outstanding?"
"A lot of her songs are growers I think so will keep listening on repeat!"
I agree with this to. Midnights grew on me but there were some strong songs that i knew would grow on me right from the first listen or two. I'm still not convinced by everything on it - I was thown by the album - it was nothing like what I had hoped for or expected - I rank Folklore up there with Fleetwood Mac Rumours as a classic of our time.

@ChampagneNightmares
"Better than Midnights IMO."
ATM - I don't feel that at all. Midnights has some songs on it that are always going to be mentioned off the top of your head as some of her greatest songs.

@User135644
"Like Taylor a lot but does every song have to be about men and relationships?"

@OldHabitsDieScreaming
"In fairness, the vast majority of music is written about relationships. Modern or even classical, it mostly stems from love, lost love, unrequited love, bad love, passionate love etc. I think this is an unfair criticism.that only really ever gets levelled at Taylor."

@User135644 - I've been saying this about modern music for the 20 years I've been writing songs - on the one hand "love" is the most obvious, easiest, most relatable, immediate, effecting and powerful thing to write about BUT - there is such a massive body of work to compete with - it's harder (I've found) to find unique (if not interesting) angles to cover the subject BUT this is what amazes me about the creativity of songwriters - the good ones manage to do this and I just marvel at it sometimes - sadly I find it depressing that so much is often a naive, cliched and amateurish rehash of words and ideas - it's as though some writers have no deep knowledge of the enormous body of work that already exists. I respect Taylor for her songwriting, her craft and her work ethic - I'm not particularly interested in her private life or even in reviews of her work - I really enjoy listening to see what she has done; to hear her work. I have consciously avoided writing any love songs - there are "complex-relationship"songs and everything from songs about paper planes to ekranoplans, anorexia, many written about the deaths of friends (surprisingly), swimming, sleep, depression, other people/friends dealing with difficult things, people that are hard to understand, train rides, acting and acting school, famous people... I won't say I expect good songwriters like Taylor to push themselves outside the broken, blossoming, unrequited love stories but I hope for more interesting subjects - writing any (good) song is hard imho! So @OldHabitsDieScreaming- I don't think it's an unfair criticism or one that only gets levelled Taylor.

@EvenStillIWantTo
"Nothing has stood out so far at all. It all feels a bit one-note and one-speed."

Well - I am a fan her music, writing, performing, singing, voice, her work ethic, the way she is always one step ahead of us - she's a singular phenomenon. I am really struggling to get through the album - after a few dozen listens I have struggled to keep listening beyond the first 4-5 songs; there is too much to take in and nothing feels strong. Lyrics matter to me - it seems like to me like most people don't really care or listen to them - the majority of the people I know are certainly like that - I'm picking up a few odd phrases here and there that are smart and fresh enough to catch my ear but... @OldHabitsDieScreaming - I'm just not feeling it at all ATM; I'm not giving up on it - some of the music that goes the deepest takes the longest time to absorb.

KitKatChunki · 24/04/2024 15:20

Been listening again today and you are right OP they just keep growing on you. @tabulahrasa That is a good link, and yes I agree it's not about them it is about her.

EndlessVortex · 24/04/2024 15:53

Absolutely loved it. On first listen I already liked it more than I liked midnights the first time, so I knew it was gonna be great.

So Long London is the stand out for me, top three all time favourite Swift songs.

Every day I wake up with a new song in my head. She’s an absolute master.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 24/04/2024 16:01

I have I Can Fix Him on repeat.

tabulahrasa · 24/04/2024 16:45

KitKatChunki · 24/04/2024 15:20

Been listening again today and you are right OP they just keep growing on you. @tabulahrasa That is a good link, and yes I agree it's not about them it is about her.

Wasn’t my link 😊

I kind of think, when she lets you know who the man is, it’s often for a reason, it’s not usually just - this man is awful.

the title track for instance, who used typewriters anyway? Yeah matty Healy does, but so does she, there’s even been a typewriter Christmas ornament in her merch

it adds emphasis to I’m not Patti Smith, you’re not Dylan Thomas… we’re two idiots.

Like they were both going, oh we’re tortured poets, this is an epic love affair, and they were kidding themselves as well as each other.

It’s still there if you don’t know it’s matty Healy, but it does emphasise the point if you do.

SandHurtsMyFeelings · 24/04/2024 18:54

I just played So High School three times in a row - it's hilarious and so dripping in sarcasm I can see her rolling her eyes through my speakers.

SandHurtsMyFeelings · 24/04/2024 19:02

Also - taylornation posted on Instagram about an hour ago. It looks like there could be some more shenanigans.

TTPD · 24/04/2024 19:19

SandHurtsMyFeelings · 24/04/2024 19:02

Also - taylornation posted on Instagram about an hour ago. It looks like there could be some more shenanigans.

Oooh interesting. The 3 on the lift button is from bejewelled right? Where people said the buttons all signified different albums of hers?
But I have seen people speculate there'll be a 3rd part of ttpd, because of the error on her website saying 3.2.1, and a picture where she was holding the vinyl with 3 fingernails painted white and the others with no nail varnish. So I guess the 3 button will add to that theory.

I know it's ridiculous but I love trying to figure it out (or rather, waiting for other people to figure it all out).

SandHurtsMyFeelings · 24/04/2024 19:30

@TTPD - on Twitter the photos are posted in a group of 4, then 3, then 2...

taylorswift1989 · 24/04/2024 19:40

I feel like The Prophecy is like Invisible String through the looking glass. The themes are inverted - it's meant to be, it was written. Even the sounds are the same between the two songs.

Ugh she is such a fucking genius.

Singleandproud · 24/04/2024 20:04

Whilst she is a good singer and fantastic story teller I think her real genius is how she interweaves the rabbit hole. I wonder if she has one of those police investigation noticeboards with string on it with her plans to interlink everything and the clues she's going to give.

taylorswift1989 · 24/04/2024 20:11

I've been on a loooong train journey today so I've listened all the way through, start to finish, three times with no distractions. It's such a journey! It really feels like closure by the time you get to the end.

I think there are references to John Mayer in Fortnight (should have known), and obviously there are in Manuscript. I feel like she's connected up her relationships and her feelings and found a thread back to that formative one. She was only 19 and I think he hurt her deeply. Trying to process that trauma through her other relationships with other unsuitable men.

I also think So High School is a funny song (not sure I'd say sarcastic). It makes me wonder if she's found that innocent, silly, free spirited feeling that she recalls from her teen years again. I hope so. She is in some ways a bit of a dork!

SummaLuvin · 24/04/2024 20:41

writing and recording songs like Guilty as Sin and So High School shows just how safe she feels with Jack and Aaron as collaborators, and I love that for her.

TTPD · 24/04/2024 20:46

SummaLuvin · 24/04/2024 20:41

writing and recording songs like Guilty as Sin and So High School shows just how safe she feels with Jack and Aaron as collaborators, and I love that for her.

Do you think she ever texts some lyrics to them (like "your wife waters flowers, I wanna kill her") and they just think "is she ok..?"

Theedgeoftheabyss · 24/04/2024 21:18

I'm going to be really pissed if they alter the eras line set list! Finding a lot of the songs from TTPD a bit samey. Hate to say it.

TTPD · 24/04/2024 21:37

Theedgeoftheabyss · 24/04/2024 21:18

I'm going to be really pissed if they alter the eras line set list! Finding a lot of the songs from TTPD a bit samey. Hate to say it.

I wonder if the acoustic surprise songs will be all TTPD songs maybe? So it's included but the main set list doesn't actually change?

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