Taylor Swift - The Tortured Poet's Department - album discussion thread

[OldHabitsDieScreaming]

Hello Swifties! Thought I would start a thread to chat about TS11 or TTPD or whatever we're calling it 😁Don't know about you but the excitement is building for this old-enough-to-know-better Swiftie and I'll be taking the long way into work tomorrow so I can listen to it in Peace...(see what I did there?)

So this thread is for anyone who loves TS and wants to talk/think/muse/swoon over the newest output from the hardest-working woman in music!

Personally I'm intrigued and delighted that Aaron Dessner seems to have co-writing credits on several tracks - I'm a committed Folklore/Evermore fan and more in a similar vein will be very welcome!

(Oh, and while hopefully this doesn't need saying, please don't bother posting to say how shit/overrated/talentless you think TS is. This is a fan / appreciation thread about a specific piece of work and it would be lovely to keep it that way.)

@taylorswift1989 I picked up on the John Mayer reference.

I hope that if she is planning on announcing something, it's a music video for who's afraid of little old me, because I'd love to see that.

To the people saying the songs are a bit samey, do you not expect that on an album? If the songs all sounded completely different from one another, I feel like that would be a bit odd and not very satisfying.

I'm loving the 80s vibe on ttpd and then the evermore sounds on anthology. I feel like But Daddy could have been on any of her early records. Almost every song has a catchy hook, bridge or chorus. So even though they're all obviously songs belonging to the same album, I think they are each unique and excellent in their own way.

Btw - don’t know if it helps or not, for anyone who is feeling like they all just run into each other a bit

I thought that to start with - I’d preordered the cd though, to listen to in the car, which of course only has the original at of songs and because I can only listen to those in the car so I’ve been listening to the 2nd part in the house, it being effectively 2 separate albums has made some songs stand out much more

I'm loving it all !

Im still working my way through, listening a few times and then moving on.

My standouts so far are:
So Long, London
The Smallest Man who ever Lived
Daddy, I Love Him
The Black Dog
So High School

I’ lm hugely enjoying the whole vibe and I really hope we get a few Eras additions 🤞

To the people saying the songs are a bit samey, do you not expect that on an album? If the songs all sounded completely different from one another, I feel like that would be a bit odd and not very satisfying.

For me there is a balance to this. There needs to be a certain amount of sonic cohesion for a project to work really well, the songs need to sound like they come from the same place, like they’re in the same language. But if they sound too similar it does get boring. I’ve heard this is the hardest thing about writing musicals, creating 2 hours worth of songs to exist the same universe and not bore the audience. I think 1989 strikes the perfect balance of this, the music sounds like it belongs together, but all tracks still distinct. For me personally TTPD, especially with Jacks production, sways into samey and repetitive at times. And Taylor doesn’t help herself by releasing 2+ hours of music is one go where people are destined to get brain fog by. I was texting a friend about the album at the weekend and by track 18 I said word for word “I don’t know anymore, getting song fatigue”. Later that day she mentioned The Albatross and I said “I think I liked it, but I remember nothing about it” now I listen and I think - how on earth did that pass me by? Because my brain was fried. There’s amazing work on the album, I just don’t feels it’s her best project.

I think The Manuscript is about Jake Gyllenhall and the way All Too Well belongs to the fans now. Going back through her Eras has obviously made her reevaluate a lot about her life and past relationships. She dealt with John Meyer in Would've Could've Should've which was much darker, while The Manuscript is sadder but ultimately reflective of how it's behind her now unlike the ghosts that still haunt her in WCS.

I wonder if she should have held off releasing this album and kept some songs in the vault - some of these tracks might have dazzled us years from now if she'd brought them out to give insight into what 2023 was like for her rather than giving us the full spectrum of what sounds like a heartbreak-induced insanity and breakdown happening against the backdrop of a huge tour right now. The album is getting some criticism for it's lack of editing. I love it though and think as people give it time to filter through rather than trying to listen all in one go, it will bed in. I think it's a grower!

I get what people mean about the songs blurring into one another, but I think that's just because it's a lot all at once. As time goes by, they become more distinct.

I think there are maybe three songs that should have been cut from the album, possibly four, not because they're bad, but because they don't fit the themes of lost love, depression, addiction, madness etc. So High School, Robin, thanK you aIMee - that was just dropped in as a diss track and it's so petty! The other song that maybe could be dropped is Florida... but it's got more of a case for being left in than the others. (I do like all those songs, but I'm just saying a super tight edit would have cut them, I think.)

Apart from those, there isn't any editing to do as far as I can tell. For me, it's the most coherent of all her albums. It tells a whole story, each song reflects on some aspect of the same theme. It's very personal, emotionally honest, and self-reflective. I appreciate that people find it a lot of songs, but in a way I feel that's one of the strengths of the album. It's dense. It's not just a piece of pop that you can dispose of in an afternoon. You have to really sit with it, listen and take it all in, work your way through the themes and the layers.

Honestly, I think it's a work of genius and by far the best thing TS has ever made.

I was wondering why she released it all at once and the only reason I could think was she no longer feels she needs songs "in the vault" as she says. I think we might be seeing a new era (pun intended) of her settling into having a family. The whole album suggests she is purging her past and growing forwards.

I do think that’s what the manuscript is referencing, but I think it’s more generally about the album, that some sound like old ones and lyrics are supposed to remind you of older songs because she’s going back over it all - that’s why I think it’s the last song, as @KitKatChunki says purging to move forward

Don’t know if that’s to a family, but musically anyway.

I’ve not even made it all the way through yet as I keep playing Down Bad, Who’s Afraid Of Little Old Me, I Can Do It With A Broken Heart and thanK you aIMee on repeat. I always do this with TS albums though, I’ll have a handful that automatically jump out at me and listen to them for ages before I go back, find more and before I know it I’ll know the whole album off by heart. I first started listening to TS way back in 2006 when I was 13 and she’s still got the same hold on me all these years later!

I had a long drive today so gave it another go, but got majorly bored by song five or six.

Just feel like I've heard every nuance of her heartbreak by now, and this goes beyond 'consistent' and veers into dreary.

Well, fair enough. I definitely don't think she's making music for everyone! Even though it feels like the whole world is into her at the moment, I think her stuff is pretty weird and kind of niche. I'm not even sure if all the people who buy her records are into her music, or whether it's just the cult of Taylor they're into... Or maybe just sitting it out, hoping she'll go back into her pop era.

Hopefully you're finding lots of other music that's suiting you better.

I was never into her pop stuff and I feel like this should be more my end of her stuff - I was absolutely addicted to Folklevermore for at least a year - but for me this misses the mark, it's just heavy and overlong and missing some spark that the others had.

(this may not be popular, just my opinion) I find the first 4 a really weak opening. Track 5 is an improvement but as far as track 5’s go it’s my lowest ranked of them. I love track 6. Then track 7 is another so so one for me. Overall the first half of the main album is a bit of a slog.

If you want to persevere with trying to see what you can get out of it, it could be worth starting the album at a different point. Or create your own playlist. As another (slight) TTPD sceptic these are my current top ten. But Daddy I Love Him, Florida!!!, Who’s Afraid of Little Old Me?, loml, The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived, The Albatross, Chloe or Sam or Sophia or Marcus, How Did It End?, The Prophecy, Peter.

But why would I do that when there are so many better albums about right now that absolutely smack you around the face with their inventiveness and brilliance?

You should do whatever you want @IamII . But note the OP: (Oh, and while hopefully this doesn't need saying, please don't bother posting to say how shit/overrated/talentless you think TS is. This is a fan / appreciation thread about a specific piece of work and it would be lovely to keep it that way.)

I definitely feel like the album has two distinct halves. The second half is very much more folklevermore for me, which I love. But the first half has grown on me massively. A few tracks that would not be out of place on 1989. Plus I love the 'country' songs that take us back to Speak Now and Red.

I do think there's a sort of pulling together of threads from all her eras, and together with the sense of thematic closure, it does feel like the end of something. I'm intrigued to know what will be next for her. I hope for something completely different.

It makes me think that TS has stopped caring so much what the fans want, think and say. She knows she's top of her game right now and her attitude is that she's writing and creating the stuff that she loves and if other people want to come along for the ride, then great. And if not, she's not bothered. The 'fuck you' to crazy fans in But Daddy is just mwah! chef's kiss!

Erm... you need to calm down?

All is fair in love and poetry...but I guess that was neither

The last paragraph - yes!

Erm @taylorswift1989 maybe stop policing my comments?

Your name hadn't showed up on this thread until you turned up to say you thought the album was crap and didn't want to listen to it any more (unless you name changed) so I don't think it was unreasonable to quote the OP.

I wouldn't call that policing your comments. I don't think it deserved your abusive response, either. But maybe we can just leave it there as it's been a great and fun thread up until now.