Clueless non-musical mum of Dc wanting to learn instruments. HELP!

[musichelpplease]

I am totally non musical. DH briefly played in a brass band in primary school. We are not prepared for our DC to ask to learn instruments. I am not a pushy mum at all and just want them to enjoy what they do.

So far one has asked for flute lessons and the another one piano lessons. All okay as they offer these at school 121. The 3rd Dc aged 5 has now announced she'd like to try violin. So she'll try some lessons in the new year.

DC10 likes the idea of playing and being able to do something a bit special but Is making very slow progress due to laziness. We have only continued because clearly it does being her joy. She picks it up to play for us every now and again which is so nice to see/hear. I've now got fed and up and instituted mandatory daily practice which is helping her I think.

Dc 7, loves piano, is so enthusiastic and wants to challenge herself. She hero worships her teacher and loves to practice. Will do twice a daily and hates that I set a 15 min timer, she goes over regularly.

My question is really, well I don't know how to help them! At the moment:
~I sit with them and insist they practice.
~I arrange a time in the day for it.
~I set a timer for 15 mins.
~I generally show an interest and encourage them to practice the bits they find trickiest
~I YouTube search when I don't know what something should sound like and show the kids.

They also go to a music/drama club and play their instruments there too.

So what should I be doing/aiming to encourage them to do? Is daily 15 mins enough. What are the best techniques for practice?

When is a good time to start violin? Is 5 too young? Is violin something good to start with or is something like a cello an option? Looks more stable?

Are these instruments I've mentioned good ones to get into overall? I'm a bit worried they've just fallen into them and not explored other options.

I think I'm a bit anxious about being clueless! Any advice appreciated.

I sit with them and insist they practice

That’s good but be sure to show great pleasure in the whole process so that emphasis is on the beauty of the music and the pleasure it brings.

Praise them for practising.

(If one little part keeps going wrong, try to focus on that one phrase, rather than always going back to the beginning.)

Go to concerts when they might be suitable.

Enjoy listening to music for their instruments together.

I am sure people will come on to answer all your questions OP.

5 is still quite young. My piano teacher wouldn't take any chuld under 7 but it's worth contacting a fee teachers to see.

Violin sounds god awful for the first few years but then is a very versatile instrument. Cello is lovely but remember you're the one who is going to have to lug it for them into school or they are going to have to carry it on their back around. Its a large case!

Other great instruments that can be good for orchestra or small bands are trumpet, viola, oboe, French horn, basoon but they tend to be second instruments for many.

I think 15 minutes is perfectly fine at the moment for them. Just see what their teachers suggest as they progress.

Why do you set a timer for the pianist if they get annoyed about it and go over? Sounds like you might need different strategies for each child.

My DP is a musician and says the most important thing is choosing something that the child actually wants to play. Having said that, they wouldn't recommend a violin at 5. The issue is that it takes a long time to make anything actually sound good on the violin, which can be very demoralising at that age. Depends on your DCs temperament though I guess!

Thank you for the reply. I do genuinely enjoy sitting with them for practice. I have 4DC and this uninterrupted 121 time for us with no screens around I'm really loving. They have to share me the rest of the time so this I consider a lovely blessing.

If one little part keeps going wrong, try to focus on that one phrase, rather than always going back to the beginning.

^^ thank you for this too. I do this. But I can't always tell what's right and wrong 🤦‍♀️

Thank you. Good point about carrying the cello around!

I was expecting to be telling her to wait until 7 but the local strings teacher says she's happy to try for a one off and see how it goes. That DC being the 3rd has some confidence issues so I'm worrying about that aspect.

Thinking it's probably a good idea they've all expressed interest in different instruments so less comparison 🤞

So for DC10 (flute) we need the timer as a target or it would be 2 mins and then skipping off to find her laptop 🙄

For DC7 (piano) I set the timer because I do need to get other things done in the day and can't sit there for 2 hours whilst she works away. So it's 15 mins with me and then however long she'd like to do without me or me cleaning up around her/feeding the baby/packing school bags etc. she quickly loses focus without me there though. She's absolutely loving it though and now I feel guilty for making her wait until 7 to start. Hence letting DC5 start sooner if she'd like.

Do you think that's reasonable or am I stifling her by not dedicating as much time as she'd like?

I am worried about DC5 becoming demoralised if she perceives things aren't going well. I'm her mum so I'll think whatever she produces will be amazing 🤩 🤣

My DC started the piano at 5 without problems.

If she likes it so much let her have
an extra 5 minutes with you there.

Encourage practice and family performance to get them used to playing in front of someone else in case they do exams - I found this really hard.
Don't practice too late if you've got close neighbours. I remember walking to school with my neighbour and hearing her humming my GCSE Music exam piece!

Turn up to concerts and recitals - it's great knowing a parent is there.
Praise even if it's rubbish. They will get better and it's lovely to hear them progress.
Think hard before picking the oboe (my instrument). It's difficult, but lovely when you get it right.

It sounds like you are really thinking of ways to support them, which is a great factor in success. I bet they enjoy that time with you. It can be hard to know what to do in practice time. I would ask the flute teacher to write out what the practice routine should look like to help her plan the time.
This would easily take 15 minutes ( but may not be suitable for her so ask) You could put sections on postcards and just do a couple each day.
Eg Long notes to improve tone and breath control ( use a tuner app?)
Scales -two each day from a list, slowly first, then with a metronome ( can get an app) to improve regularity in playing
Play through piece 1, identify two tricky bars, put a pencil star or post it tab on them. Play them slowly, counting carefully. Use metronome if appropriate
Play through
Piece 2 work on previously identified tricky bit don't play all through
Piece 3 Perform ie play without stopping
Sight read a Christmas carol or show tune for fun.

Practice doesn't make perfect, it makes permanent so she should play things thoughtfully.

Five is quite early for violin but it is quite complex and takes a long time to learn. Could you sit in on some lessons to understand what she needs to practice. It will be a lot of learning to hold the bow etc at the start. Cello is not easier per SE but is a bit more comfortable to hold ( I play double bass so am biased!) They do take better to instruments they have chosen but don't rule out a change later.
Enjoy, it's lovely seeing them develop in their own ways.

There is a very welcoming music thread in extra curricular too.

Thank you @ScrollingLeaves if violin doesn't work out I might suggest piano for her.

Happy to do an extra 5 mins too :)

Thanks @PauliesWalnuts we do family performances, DH really pisses me off when he talks through them 😖

There doesn't seem to be a lot of opportunities for performing at school, can children do pop up public performances, like busking? Just thinking out loud there!

Oboe looks expensive!

That thread terrified me with all the very accomplished DC and organised DMs!

Thank you @horseymum I very appreciate your suggestions here. I will for sure start marking up the tricky bars and go back to those.

I haven't thought about a metronome, might chuck one on the Xmas list!

DC10 has a sheet of scales, so I always ask for those and them 3-4 other bits. One of which is minuet which DC says she hates(!) with a passion😬
I've ordered a book of flute music Christmas songs, reviews stated they were easy ones so 🤞 DC will enjoy those over the holidays.

I struggle with communications with the peri teachers. They visit school and do the lessons there (which is very convenient for me) but flute teacher doesn't really communicate, DC10 is unreliable at telling me what was said, I get only snippets. Piano teacher has sent some lovely emails about DC7 and given a rather long list of things to try over the holidays, so quite some variation! But you think it's okay to email and ask how things are going and what needs to happen over the holidays?

Piano teacher sounds brilliant! Can you send a notebook to each flute lesson and they can write in that?

I have zero musical talent too and both my DC are serious musicians. Not form me pushing.

DS1 was like your DD - loved piano and practised all the time. I never once nagged him to practise. I didn;t sit wiht him eitgher. Just left the door open and listened while I cooked. I always applauded when he'd finished, and tol him how beautiful it was.

The only things I did were:
if he kept stumbling over the same bit and getting frustrated, I told him to play the bar before it, then play the difficult bit very slowly and then the bar after it, over and over and gradually speed up.
I also helped him with dynamics by saying things like: now play it gently as if you were playing for a nervous kitten and needed to calm it down. Saying that sort of thing really helped him learn how to interpret the music and play it different ways.

If I were you I'd set the timer for 20 mins not 15. Though it's clever to leave her wanting more.

Yes she has a little workbook, they each do. Some suggestions go in there but no tips for what a non-musical mum should do to help. I was worried I was being a bit needy by hoping for tips on what to do. I am clueless when it comes to wind instruments, piano seems to be an easier thing to help with, at least at this early stage.

Piano teacher I think is won over my
DC7's enthusiasm 😍

Thanks @NewToWoo that's encouraging. I was worried I will be a handicap for them, holding them back with my cluelessness.

Good tips about the tricky bars :)

my DC didn't start instruments until they were 8 (year 3). Practice was 10minutes a day until they were in Year 7. IMO shorter daily practice and getting a decent routine is beneficial for those kids who need a nudge. For your younger DC, I would schedule 10-15mins of supported practice with you there to go over any key things she needs to fix, and I would then rejoice in having a well motivated kid and encourage her to be independent and noodle around for fun.

I totally agree that the best instrument is the one the DC has chosen to play. BUT if you did want to think tactically, there are certain instruments that seem to be huge demand for junior ensembles and anyone who plays them half decently will get lots of opportunities, particularly viola, double bass, french horn, tuba and bassoon. My younger DC is a less competent musician than my elder, but the elder one plays a super-popular instrument with not many orchestral seats, and the younger chose to play a little something rarer, so gets picked for more stuff.

It's hard not to feel a bit like a fish out water as a non musical parent with musical DC. DC1's teacher commented that most of her students are from musical families. But by and large I've found music teachers so welcoming and enthusiastic that they're happy to explain everything from first principles for me!

Your children are doing very well. Mine are like your DC1. They practice the songs once and then they pack their instruments away. I told them to aim for 5-10 min a day. For the pianist, you don't need to sit with her when practising. Then she can play for longer. You can instead ask her to learn some songs and do performances for you? Or just sit with her for the first 15min?

DC1 has learned the violin for 9 months and it sounds ok. She occassionally make squeaking noises but it doesn't take as long to make some good sound as some other PP implies. They have smaller violin sizes and if the teacher is happy to have her, I don't see why she can't stop with the instruments she picks?

Both mine started with the piano because I play it. It's also a great instrument to learn music theory. I don't think there is a right or wrong choice for first instrument.

Re performances, once they get to a certain level (not always particularly high) your school or local authority might have opportunities. When I was at school we had a wind band, and the local authority also had a junior and senior orchestra. Having said that, the local authority one was harder to get into as there were around 100 flautists in the borough, whereas as an oboe player I was one of only three! I live in the NW with a solid brass band culture so there were also plenty of opportunities for brass kids to go along. We also had a scout and guide band locally too but not sure if this is still the case.

About the tactical instrument choice. The county music service here has a endangered music instrument program. They provide the tuition and the letters imply you are almost guarantee a place in the local area groups. Neither of my children are interested in the instruments offered however. But that could be something to look out for.

If you are after scholarships etc, then you will need to make them practice a lot and be very strategic in terms of at least second instrument (as a pp already mentioned, bassoon, oboe, French horn).

however, if you just want them to love it, try to look for a Saturday music school. To start playing in an orchestra (preferably, if not ensemble) outside of school and across age groups is brilliant for development. Even if you play a “common instrument “, if you are very good at it and have lots of orchestra experience, you will get a spot in a school orchestra (they are usually at a really low level).