Direct payment amount to pay worker

[EJ1000]

Hi all, I have been granted 4 hours per wk direct payments. This means I can pay the PA £13 / hour. However , I would like to pay them more than this as it is significant care needs they are dealing with - I think £20-£25/hour is much fairer.
The lady at the council said I can pay them what I like however the extra would have to come out my own money. I can’t afford to top up their wage from my own money however, and what I would rather do is use the DP money but for less hours. Eg: 2 hours per wk at £20/hour.
My worker won’t work for the £13 they offer and it’s hard to find someone (impossible) who will do the job for this amount.
Ive read the FAQs for direct payments and it seems the £13 / hr is more of a guideline (they also say they “recommend” paying double on bank hol etc but def doesn’t seem has to be that way), however lady at council seems to be insisting can only pay £13 /hr from the DP money.
Does anyone have any more solid info on this? TIA

My understanding is that the council is correct, it’s an hourly amount you are entitled to to pay the PA, not a total. So if 4 hours you can get £13 x 4, but if you only choose to use 2 hours you only are entitled to £13 x 2.

If you feel the £13 is unfair then you can ask for a breakdown of how they come up with that rate but the unfortunate reality is that most care staff work for minimum wage so they are always going to be able to prove that you could get someone to do the job for that rate.

You can sometimes request to do it as fewer hours for a higher hourly rate but there are implications of doing that e.g. holidays, and you’d also have to make sure your care plan needs are still met. The trouble with that is that if you essentially say your needs can be met in 2 hours rather than 4 then you can end up losing the funding for the extra hours.

I just checked my councils information, and they say the same as your council - they set the payment rate based on the agreed hours, and if you reduce the hours you get paid for fewer hours. If you want to pay more then you have to pay it yourself. If you are paying them yourself, you also need to take into account the admin you will have to do, and your legal responsibilities as an employer. They review direct payments after 8 weeks too, to make sure that the recipient is happy with the arrangement, and if not they can then consider alternatives.

I don’t know if the direct payment timesheets are the same for every council, but the one we use, we just put down total hours for that four week period.

If your timesheet is similar to ours, I really don’t see how anyone would know if you’re declaring 16 hours per 4 week period and she’s only actually worked 8.

Of course that would be fraud. If you have agreed to terms then you must abide by them.

Yes, woe betide anybody with a disability doing anything in their power to make their lives more bearable.

Don't be ridiculous. I have a disability too, and know bloody well that if I commit fraud my "good intentions" will make not a bloody bit of difference when I am prosecuted / the money is reclaimed. Disability is not a defence for fraud.

Don't forget you will need to pay NI on tve hourly rate.

Some LAs sometimes allow you to use a high rate of pay and fewer hours, but that isn’t the case all the time. If they have refused in your case, you are not allowed to do it.

OP, I don’t know if you saw my previous post before it was unceremoniously deleted …

my son’s Social Worker sorted out his Direct Payments. Four hours a week, and she said whether our DP worker was working Four hours a week, eight hours every other week, it didn’t really matter. Who’s to say that when you get your carer to come in for four hours, she just doesn’t end up going home after two?

In your situation, I think it would be pretty awful if you lost this woman as she sounds perfect for you. And I know exactly what you mean about it being difficult to find people to do the work: The wages and the care involved puts many people off, and that’s before you’ve even decided if you like them! You can be economical with the truth – putting down four hours per week when she’s only working two, and you get the help that you need, or you say she’s only doing two hours a week, you’ll get paid for two hours a week, and she’ll leave. But hey, according to some other posters, at least you’d be able to struggle on with the satisfaction that you did right by the local council.

You can be economical with the truth – putting down four hours per week when she’s only working two

That isn’t just economical with the truth. That is outright lying and fraud.

So you actually think it’ll be better for the OP to have absolutely no help, but know that she was ‘doing the right thing?’

The OP’s council have allocated what, £50 odd per four week period for assistance. That amount is not going to increase, it’s not as though the Op is trying to get more money out of them. They’ve allocated this money to her, and I believe that she should try and use it the way she wants to use it. The OP said she can’t find anybody willing to work for £13 per hour, she has someone who will do it for a higher amount, Someone she already knows and trusts. She would be willing to pay them up their own money, but cannot afford to.

She’s not trying to defraud the council out of a lot of money: She’s the loser here as no one is willing to accept the wages being offered.

I can’t believe that so many people seem to think that it will be better for her to end up losing the four hours a week – which she will do if she can’t find anybody to accept the job – rather than have her chosen carer come in for two hours a week and give her some much needed assistance.

As my pp said, sometimes, like in your case, LAs will allow a higher rate of pay and fewer hours, but not in all situations. OP’s LA has refused, so not the same situation as your situation.

OP should go back to the LA to a) ask for an increase in rate (yes, they can do this despite you saying the amount is not going to increase), and b) ask them to reconsider allowing her to use fewer hours to subsidise a higher rate of pay. She could also request they commission support directly - people don’t have to have to DPs.

Fraud is not the answer.

The council is correct - you have to top up oug of your own money. You sound lovely as a DP employer.

Don’t be tempted to be economical with the truth - if the council finds out you’re only using half your allotted hours but have been using all of the money likely two things will happen: you’ll lose the four hours and the council will demand the money back for the hours that weren’t used. And potential you could face charges for fraud.

I don’t consider this fraud. The OP would not be gaining anything financially that she isn’t actually already entitled to.

Life is difficult enough when you’re living with a disability and money is tight. I think the OP should do whatever she can to make her life easier.

Whether you consider it fraud or not, it is.

It’s fraud. Trust me.

Don’t do it, OP.

I actually don’t think it is… I think fraud is more about deceiving in order to gain something, like money or property, etc.

The OP has legitimately been offered this money. Yes, admittedly for 4 hours, but they’d still be paying it whether it’s her chosen carer or a stranger.

Doing the ‘right’ thing, knowing it’s going to make life more difficult, when you’re already dealing with difficulties, why do it?

You are wrong. It is fraud. Lying about the care being 4 hours is making false representations. It is deceiving the LA.

Why do it? To not commit an illegal act and risk a criminal record.

It’s fraud. I’m paid to know this.

It’s fraud.

I actually don’t think it is… I think fraud is more about deceiving in order to gain something, like money or property, etc.

I am going to explain this really simply. Timesheets are a legal document. They are evidence of the financial claim made. And they are kept as such for years. If you say that someone has worked for four hours and they have never worked for four hours, then you have claimed something that is a lie. Since the hourly rate being paid by the council (whether it is "fair" or not is an entirely different manner) is £13 ph you are only entitled to £52 IF your employee works for 4 hours (or an average of 4 hours) every week. If they work an average of 2 hours then your entitlement is £26. What you consdier to be fraid is irrelevant unless you are paying for the bill. But the Council will very definitely consider it fraud, and should it go to the police or a court, so will they. You are falsifying a record for financial gain.

Clearly you are comfortable with acting in a criminal way providing it is for your own benefit, but not everyone is.

Oh, and your post was deleted for the personal abuse.

I still think that no one would ever know.

LAs can and do audit people.