Direct payment amount to pay worker

[EJ1000]

Hi all, I have been granted 4 hours per wk direct payments. This means I can pay the PA £13 / hour. However , I would like to pay them more than this as it is significant care needs they are dealing with - I think £20-£25/hour is much fairer.
The lady at the council said I can pay them what I like however the extra would have to come out my own money. I can’t afford to top up their wage from my own money however, and what I would rather do is use the DP money but for less hours. Eg: 2 hours per wk at £20/hour.
My worker won’t work for the £13 they offer and it’s hard to find someone (impossible) who will do the job for this amount.
Ive read the FAQs for direct payments and it seems the £13 / hr is more of a guideline (they also say they “recommend” paying double on bank hol etc but def doesn’t seem has to be that way), however lady at council seems to be insisting can only pay £13 /hr from the DP money.
Does anyone have any more solid info on this? TIA

If you use less hours than you are assessed for they are likely to demand repayment IF they found out, they have offered 4 hours because that was deemed necessary. Typical payment for care workers is minimum wage plus 50p you also potentially are liable for ni and pension but I think you are below the threshold. I would suggest looking at more options before considering altering the work sheets because however you justify it, it’s fraud

Councils have entire departments who check these claims and the supporting documentation. It is fraud and there is a very high chance that they will find out. And you know something else - they also check payroll, they also communicate with HMRC, and HMRC communicates with the DWP. The DWP monitor and pay things like disability benefits, and they love hearing about people who have committed fraud.

I do whatever I can to make my severely disabled child’s life easier.
we have fought for him every step of the way. We will continue to do so.

People can do this without committing a crime. I do.

Having a parent with a criminal record wouldn’t make a child’s life easier.

@PhilippaGeorgiou

I’m not committing a crime.

Good luck with getting the council to look into anything… I’ve spent the past week trying to get hold of people in two different departments, 17 phone calls, one call back and it ended up he didn’t even work for the right department. Couldn’t give me any information.

I didn’t say you specifically were. You have the LA’s agreement, as I acknowledged in another post. I said ‘people’ not you specifically. You are advocating the OP commits a crime.

I’m advocating she does what she needs to do to make her life more bearable.

people jumping all over for her – and me – arguing over 50 poxy quid every few weeks.

You are advocating committing fraud. Whether you accept that is what is is or not.

I’ll try and live with it

Right, so by that logic then I could steal a TV from our local shop and it’s not stealing if no one ever finds out?

No. people are quite correctly pointing out that if she were to follow your advice she would be defrauding a "50 poxy quid". Surprising that you used to work for the DWP and advicate lying on official forms to make life more comfortable.

OP, do not commit fraud. It may or may not help you, but talk to the council and see if there are alternatives or higher bands of payment. Don't become a criminal over "50 poxy quid". I can tell you for an absolute fact that if and when they detect the fraud - and it is very likley they will - it won't matter if it is "50 poxy quid" or "70,000 poxy quid" - they will treat you exactly the same way.

Yes you are expected to top it up. Paying £13 an hour is ridiculous and when you break it down it’s less than minimum wage to the carer. You can push for it to be raised however.

I work for social services and if you’re only going to use half the hours and just pay the PA more then sorry but you don’t need the four hours to begin with! You can manage with 2.

You need to go back to them and ask for a higher hourly rate.

In my LA the hourly rate is less if you employ someone direct than if they’re self employed and registered with HMRC. It’s £2.50ph more as it stands. What is the status of your PA?

We also pay more in areas where it’s hard to find care e.g. rural. Check if there are any circumstances that might enable you to legitimately get a higher hourly rate.

Do not lie as it will catch up with you, trust me. We have claimed thousands back off individuals caught in these kind of lies/fraud.

Philippa doing her research 🤣

So basically you advise people to commit fraud, it's what you would do (although I note that you say you aren't doing it despite suggesting someone else should), and think abusing people who point it out is the way to go. Perhaps you should quit while you aren't ahead? You are just showing yourself up now.

I advocated her making her life easier. Sometimes when you’re vulnerable, dealing with people you already know, like and trust means the world.

And the fact that you’ve done a Search on me… Not exactly covering yourself in glory, are you?

I advocated her making her life easier by committing fraud. Fraud, a criminal act, won’t make her life easier in the longer term.

You would have to pay out of your own pocket. I get direct payments for my son and if I've gone over the allocated funds, I have to pay the rest. This also includes the amount I have to pay hmrc.

However, you can use this as evidence for an increase in pay. We've done this a few times in order to show how much of a benefit it is and what the outcome of reducing the hours would be. The council won't increase it because you want to pay more. They need to have evidence which will be reviewed in a few months and will and can ask for evidence such as payslips for the person you employ as well as bank statements.

Please just remember that you do need to have insurance for the person you take on as well as providing payslips and paying hmrc.

But how much easier do you think her life will be if she takes your advice and then is found out and loses her hours + has to pay back all that she fraudulently claimed?

Like I said before, I really don’t understand how anybody would ever have known. Between herself and the carer.

I imagine every person who has ever been found guilty of fraud thought nobody would ever find out- that’s the name of the game. She’d also have to pay differing NI etc for the higher wage so HMRC would have a record of that.

I really don’t understand how anybody would ever have known.

As I said, LAs can and do audit people.

But then, wouldn’t it just come down to the OP and carer stating it’s 4 hours pw, and the LA having to believe that?