Live webchat with Sir Jim Rose, Tues 2 Feb, 1-2pm

[GeraldineMumsnet]

After our webchat with Ed Balls last September, another thread started about summer-born babies and on it you asked us to try to get Sir Jim Rose along for his own webchat.

We're really pleased to say that he's coming to the Towers on Tues 2 Feb from 1pm. It's his first-ever webchat, he admits to being a social networking novice and is bringing along a typist, so please be patient!

Sir Jim was formerly Her Majesty's Inspector and Director of Inspection for OFSTED. He retired in 1999 and since has acted as a consultant to the DFES on nursery and primary education. He has led several independent reviews, including early reading, the primary curriculum, and teaching and dyslexia.

As ever, if you can't make it on the day, please post your questions here.

If anybody is interested/concerned, Britain's education systems are being funded by right wing low income tax trickle down economics.

This is a Tory dogma to squeeze out the brainy, it has nothing to do with costs for all chidren.

Our class system must be retained at all costs.

The more I read the more I want to home school.

QuiteDespairingTiggaxx

But having said that - though ds' yr 3 teacher is not nearly as charismatic as yr 2 one, she HAS got DS engaged (though only after fairly unequivocal throwing-down-of-gauntlet from me in a 'distracted you say? How odd - his last teacher managed to enthrall him' stylee.

That's interesting lingle. Makes sense.

I'm totally confused: my son has a pitiful 2 x 40 minutes of PE a week. That is his total physical/sports education within schooling hours. When I approached the head about this she said their hands were tied as there was no time to give up more to sport/pe because of the national curriculum.

so why is jim talking about an expectation of 5 hours a week? does he count break time in this?

Sorry, haven't followed thread but just read soph's post. How is it that prep schools can manage four whole afternoons of sport and an afternoon of arts/drama and still fit in the curriculum, with good results?

I think we should look at how they manage this, if they teach differently and so on. To not even look, on the grounds that it's just their demographic, could be a wasted opportunity.

Carulli- "I deferred starting my Aug born son in school until a year later. He then went into reception aged 5 and Yr 1 aged 6 etc. so we deferred all his formal education by one year."

Please please tell me how you did this. We just keep getting told we can't. There is no way on earth dd will be ready for school in sept. Shes fighting to catch up with the children born around her due date let alone dragging her a year ahead.

bronze, Carulli may have gone private, or she may live in Scotland, or she may live in the Leeds or Bradford LEAs where such deferral used to be granted as of right.

but worth asking in case its none of those (crosses fingers)

I might just start quoting Sir Rose at my LEA

If you can find a professional ally, that will help.

my speech therapist said there "are ways" of achieving year-deferral for some of her clients even in LEAs that refuse it.

Send a bland email asking for a copy of their policy on summer-born admissions before you start any challenge.

Hi Bronze. We live in Bedfordshire and it's a state primary school. I contaced the local authority who said that the final decision was the head teachers. With the support of my sons's playschool leader I asked for a meeting with the head and went armed with a massive folder with evidence that, on average, the youngest children in their year group at school perform at a lower level than their older classmates (the 'birthdate effect'). This is especially true of boys.

The head seemed fairly open in our initial meeting (and probably realised, correctly, that I would take ther matter to the governors, my MP and be a total pain.) However, the head said in their experience this had never happened before and wasn't sure if it would be allowed. I said the local authority had already old me the decision was theirs. I received a letter a few weeks later saying that my sons school year would be deferred and it has never been mentioned since.

You need to get all the available evidence together, there is loads on the internet, and then ask for a meeting with the head. Before your meeting you could ask the head to do some basic analysis on the children in the school with special educational needs and their birthdates over the past decade. Amazingly many teachers in primary education have never considered the birthdate effect and can be very surprised when they really start to consider it.

If the answer is no, challenge them to produce the evidence that supports their view. They will not be able to. Doing an Ed Balls and just saying that's the way it is, is unacceptable. You need to be like a battering ram, keep going through the evidence that supports your view and challenging them to produce any that supports theirs.

Good luck!

Thanks thats helpful. I've also asked on Bliss and have been given an email for someone on their staff who is working on this very thing. I will keep this updated so that others in the same position can follow

Most of the national newsapapers have run articles re the birthdate effect in the past couple of years and as you know Scotland has changed their admissions policy enabling parents to defer for a whole year.

If only they would listen, we would save a fortune in special needs education and save many children from struggling. Most developed countries start formal education two years later than we do and yet their children have overtaken ours by the the age of 11.

I really believe my son has been far happier and it hasn't been an issue at school at all. The other parents that know completely understand whilst a few have said they wished they knew this was a possibility as they would have considered it.

Each child is different and certainly some summer born children, particularly girls, will still thrive as Mr Rose's granddaughter appears to have done. However, education policy should meet all our children's requirements, not just the few.

If all the evidence continually indicates a problem then only an arrogant fool, Mr Rose if you're reading this, would discount it.

How interesting Carulli, that's extremely similar to my story.

the new Leeds policy can be found at
www.educationleeds.co.uk/Admissions/Current%20year/Leeds%20Admission%20policy%202010%20V3%2 0July%2009.pdf

Note the reference to "unless you have exceptional reasons". I take this to mean - "unless you can find a friendly paediatrician to support you and you make a big fuss"

Curulli - Great posts! Well done you. I've heard before that school heads have this autonomy.

bronze - if you get resistance - how about also asking the head for the school's KS1/2 SATS broken down by birth month?

Lingle - It's excellent that you have achieved something from Sir Jim!!

Having re-read through all Sir Jim's comments on the 'summer born issue', what frustrates me is not so much what he says, but how he has communicated it to the DCSF and onwards to the LEA's.

The recommendation he actually made in his report:

14 - (i) 'The preferred pattern of entry to reception classes should be the September immediately following a child?s fourth birthday.' Is both clear and actionable.

His "...the Government's attention should be focused on ensuring developmentally appropriate and positive experiences for relatively younger children in the primary school and also on ensuring that the process for identifying children with special educational needs takes account of relative age....." (Which isn't even in the main report.) is neither clear nor actionable.

His reply to me illustrates this:

"There is considerably more flexibility and choice in what is proposed than many seem to think."

From everything I read at the time (even Gordon Brown's comments on Mumsnet) the DCSF/LEA's are under the impression that earlier schooling will solve the 'summer born' problem.

Grrrrrrr..!!!!

I wonder how prem his grandaughter was. It can mean anything from 36+6 weeks to 22 weeks in the country. There would normally be a big difference in maturity between the two.

I don't want my daughter to have SEN, not when she doesn't need to if she could just start when she really should be.

The granddaughter story was sweet, but the kind of child who could "protest" if not allowed to go to school is perhaps not the kind of child who needs to defer anyway....

The child who needs to defer is the little boy who hasn't even figured out what a school is and just wanders around bewildered for the first term......

Hi BelleDeChocolateFluffyBun

I promised to come back to you with more information from John Stannard, Champion for Gifted and Talented children.

National policy is changing and this is part of the reason for it getting more public attention. Under the new schools White Paper, there is a general expectation that the identification of and provision for able, gifted and talented learners should be a mainstream responsibility for schools.

Parents should be advised to go to the schools and, with the prospect of the new Guarantee in mind, tackle the school on what they propose to provide. All parents should also know whether or not their child has been identified and have some channel into the school to discuss this if they think they have been overlooked. Schools, for their part are required to identify and expected to share this process and its outcomes with parents. The spirit of this requirement is that schools will be proactive about it ? increasing numbers of schools are taking this forward. In addition, the National Association for Gifted Children (NAGC) is a voluntary organisation with a support service for parents who provide advice and lobby on their behalf.

Further guidance is available at: www.teachernet.gov.uk/teachingandlearning/gandtpupils/

Well thought I would update
DD has a place for sept (Im assumingbecause of siblings etc) but school and LEA are happy for her to start sept 2011 in reception. One happy mummy here

bronze Well done!