Live webchat with Sir Jim Rose, Tues 2 Feb, 1-2pm

[GeraldineMumsnet]

After our webchat with Ed Balls last September, another thread started about summer-born babies and on it you asked us to try to get Sir Jim Rose along for his own webchat.

We're really pleased to say that he's coming to the Towers on Tues 2 Feb from 1pm. It's his first-ever webchat, he admits to being a social networking novice and is bringing along a typist, so please be patient!

Sir Jim was formerly Her Majesty's Inspector and Director of Inspection for OFSTED. He retired in 1999 and since has acted as a consultant to the DFES on nursery and primary education. He has led several independent reviews, including early reading, the primary curriculum, and teaching and dyslexia.

As ever, if you can't make it on the day, please post your questions here.

BethNoire and Bramshott - see changes to the Schools Admission Code here - see Para 2.69 and above - LAs are now required to hold the place where there is a request for deferred entry.

My son is a bright 10 year old. Why is it impossible for me to find a school for him that will challenge him? Why do schools think it's OK to allow him to sit and do nothing because he's finished his work in 10 minutes and has nothing to do? No matter how many times I talk to them it achieves nothing. He grasps new concepts immediately so no matter what he's given he can do it really quickly and has nothing to do whilst he's waiting for the rest of the class to catch up with him. In one school he was told off for asking if he could read rather then do nothing, now he sits and daydreams. The government introduced a gifted and talented policy, it's not always implemented in schools though and I don't think it covers the philosophical etc questions that he asks, then there's the bullying that he recieves because his vocabularly is more advanced then the children in his class, he's a bully magnet. In one school I was told that he brings this on himself because of how he speaks to people (imagine Sherlock holmes). What do I do with him? He's a very caring, supportive child and he is being so badly let down by both the state and the private sector as there are very few places that can support a very bright child.

Dear Sir Jim

I would like to ask a question regarding summer born premature children . How can you justify sending these children to school at aged 3 (given that many of these children have a corrected age of less than 4) when some of their peers are 5. You believe that the curriculum should be adjusted to suit the needs of these children. My twin boys now in yr 4 were not ready for anything remotely approaching an academic curriculum at 3 ¾ unless you count wanting to play with sand and water all day long. One of them in particular has suffered hugely from being in a year that he really shouldn?t have been in . He is below average academically for his age never mind having to cope with being in the incorrect year based on his corrected age. How in a million years could it ever be the right thing for him to start school at such an early age and I don?t agree with holding children back until 5 if they are forced to go into the same year that they would have gone into anyway ? a complete disaster in my view.
Thank you for reading my question

Hassled- very interesting sadly the village schooloperates outside the LEA admissions system and does as it pleases (faith based but not technically a Church school- Endowed status)

I would like to know what the plans are around changing the statutory starting age of children for school. There has been recent research stating that summer born children are disadvantaged (as we know boys in particular suffer). Can we move in line with the rest of Europe and have good quality, free nursery education until at least the age of 6 years? Why do some schools take children as young as 4.3 years into Reception class whilst others wait until later?

Hello Sir Jim, I'd like to know why there continues to be an assumption that many children with medium to severe special needs will do better in a mainstream school as opposed to a Special School environment? As someone who had the priviledge of being a parent to a profoundly disabled child, during my son's brief life my husband were very concerned about Special Schools but had the chance to experience Special Education from the inside, and as a result, discovered a network of extraordinary schools and people who are committed to tailoring the experience of school to the specific needs of the child. I have worked with mainstream schools developing creative approaches to teaching and learning for many years, and whilst I very occasionally see a child with complex needs who thrives for a period in these situations, most of the time children seem to have to struggle to fit into a system that simply can not accomodate their learning needs. I think mainstream schools do a fantastic job trying to support children in these situations but in reality rarely is there specialist expertise available within the staff team to help the child/children in question. I understand the clear message to parents is one of disabled children not being segregated from society and this is clearly going to be a very powerful and emotive one as we all want what is best for our child, especially when they already have many barriers to face, but in reality it seems that this is really about the government not prioritising children who urgently need support so costs can be kept down - it is cheaper after all to place these children in mainstream schools rather than in schools where personalised learning can be a real possibility.

Thanks for that link Hassled.

Sometimes though, what seems best is to hold the child back a whole year and let them enter Reception in the September just following their fifth birthday. I have yet to see a compelling argument as to why this might be a bad thing - just various administrative arguments about "getting children back into the right year later on".

From an earlier poster;
"I live in the UK and I am an Early Years Educator but I have been born and did my education in Eastern Europe where I started literacy and numeracy at 7 years and went to primary school only 4 hours per day. The system in the Uk is damaging the children.
The parents should do something about. The teachers or educators cannot change anything because they have to follow government guidelines otherwise they will lose their jobs."

Exactly why I took my 6 year old out of school and am now home educating him! We are damaging children and we and the US are the only countries that do it...WHY?????????????

Sir Jim - is there any way you can bring forward a date for flexischooling to become a parental choice? My autistic son is thriving on half his time in mainstream (with support) and half his time on a behavioural program at home, with intensive 1-to-1 teaching on speech, reading, computer etc. I realise it is expensive (though actually we share funding with the LEA) but I also know that my son could not cope with full time school, and would in all likelihood become another very expensive "SEN exclusion" statistic before too long - meaning greater costs in terms of PRU or special school if mainstream fails. I think we are trying to cram too many small kids (he's 6) into school full time, too early, with too complex a set of special needs. Flexischooling might just be a simple, effective answer.

There is whole army of ABA tutors (applied behavioural analysis ) already out there, working with SEN kids, and I reckon if we made ABA the norm (as it is in the US for early intervention with ASD kids) we would see far better results and far fewer institutionalised autistic adults.

I know Ed Balls mentioned bringing in flexischooling in a year or so, but is there any way of hastening that?

NB - phonics has been the absolute best thing for my son to learn to read, as it suits his very ordered autistic mind. He is also now writing words as well!

My little boy is nearly 5, I'm trying to decide whether to send him to school or to home educate him. My question for Sir Jim is why should I send him to school?

My children attend an outstanding Ofsted school with high acheiving SATs results. I fell into the trap of presuming this was a good choice and felt lucky to get places. I now feel however that my children have been subjected to a rigid formal early education that has focused so heavily on targets and achievement measures that enjoyment of learning, understanding of child development, and a nurturing joyful environment have been denied to them.

Joy care and nurture cannot be measured by OFSTED and I think these aspects which most parents would put at the top of their list of wishes for thier children, are being pushed out of so many schools. Have you witnessed this yourself? Or felt the shift in primary eductaion from nurture to measure?

Also I strongly support all those calling for flexible starts to education, along the Scottish line. Again, ignoring the differing rates of development of children and forcing them into boxes they are too young or too immature to cope with is damaging children. You do not need to be a psychologist to understand that from the age of 4yrs been placed in a an environment where for the next 7yrs you are being asked to do things you don't understand, you know you can't do as well as everyone else, you know you are failing, and you are made to repeatedly sit tests just beyond your level, t will effect you esteem and self beliefs in yourself as a learner. Not to mention make you a rather sad little person.

So why are we doing this to children??? Very young children. WHY??

I want to know why the LEA makes the decision on which MLD or SLD school a child with SN goes to? THe parents can recommend a school they would like their child to go to, but its down to the LEA to make that decision.
A friend of mine's son is going to secondary school this sept. She looked around a few SN school, hated one school, the LEA have nomatined that school for her son.
I have a child with learning disabilities, cerebral palsy, and adhd, in year 5, we are looking at SN secondary schools for her atm. I am dreading the fact that the LEA will make that decision for us. How comes a parent with a child without SN can choose (within reason) yet we have no choice?

Hello sir Jim - how much faith do you have in the government / future goverment successfully taking up your recommendation given the toxic conditions many schools are forced, often, by their LEAs to operate in?

Our school (by no means unique in these issues) had a 2 form admission of 60 children. The LEA has forced the school to take increased admission numbers, to 70 for reception for the last two years. This year (2009/10) will be no exception. The spare classroom and the dedicated technology classroom have been and will be appropriated as full time teaching classrooms for split year classes. Previously if you needed to do work with small groups in a quiet setting / assess pupils / Senco work with children etc, these rooms could be used. There are a number of children in the school with special needs from dyslexia to Aspergers, in addtion to those that are just struggling. As a result of this enforced situation the school now uses the following for children to do work with the / Teacher/ TA/ SALT/SENCO eto.

• The technology room if it is not in use ( but it will be a full time classroom from sept 2010.
• A table in the middle of the reception area, 4 feet from the front door
• School hall - used for indoor PE / weather affected outdoor PE - agsin opening onto the reception 10 feet from front door.
• A cupboard type space off the reception with no doors.

The secretary's office is next to the front door too with the phone/ door bell constantly ringing. In addition to deliveries /traffic from the junior school because although different heads there is some resource sharing.

A 'best practice' solution is surely unworkable in this set up.

Sir Jim,
There is a massive amount of evidence that learning to read is not difficult when schools rigorously follow the advice you gave in your Early Reading Review of 2006.
Some children inevitably need more time to understand our written code as they do with any skill.
If the alphabetic code is taught properly it is fun and good teaching by teachers who are truly trained allows so much freedom and time for children to develop, flourish and explore the world.
Surely it's the muddled initiatives that have created difficulties?
The All-Party House of Commons S & T Select Committee last month published its findings into Early Literacy Interventions.The logic of their conclusions would save billions over a decade.
Why doesn't the DCSF respond?

Sir Jim, it was my idea to invite you so please do answer my question about year-deferral for summer-borns.

I know that many education experts have urged you without success to change your mind on the summer-born deferral issue.

Will you at least agree that for some summer-born children whose delays are in the area of social communication skills, it is critical that parents should be able to follow professional advice to change the child's peer group at an early age as part of the early intervention programme?

When my August-born son's language and social communication struggles became painfully evident upon starting state school nursery at 3, we sought advice from:

1. the school's headteacher
2. the nursery manager
3. Bradford LEA's specialist Special Needs support coordinator
4. An NHS specialist senior speech therapist
5. An NHS consultant paediatrician

All of them - ALL of them - urged us to take advantage of Bradford's policy allowing us, as of right - to repeat his nursery year and start reception at 5 years old, with his education to be offset throughout his school career. None of them - NONE of them, thought that a "play-based curriculum" in reception would be better for him. He needed to practice his immature social skills with a peer group whose social skills more closely matched his own. No curriculum change could achieve that.

My son has blossomed in his "repeat" nursery year. From being in a position 12 months ago where Bradford LEA were urging us to seek a Statement as soon as possible, we are now in a position where his language and social skills are peer appropriate, and because he is with the right peers, his progress is very fast. His life-chances have been transformed by this simplest and cheapest of "interventions" in the right setting, and the taxpayer's money spent on the extra nursery year has been saved many times over because he will not now need 1-to-1 support when he starts reception at 5 years old in September.

However, because of your report, Bradford has now reversed its policy on summer-born deferral. Other children like mine won't get this chance in life. Unless, that is, you are willing to recognise that there are exceptions to every rule, and that there are some special children for whom year-deferral is a critical intervention.

I await your response.

Sir Jim,

Following backtolingle's excellent post, I thought I'd try to give an more general explanation for the frustration felt by some mumsnetters regarding the handling the 'summer born child' inequality issue in your report last year.

As an input to your report, you commissioned the IFS to investigate the relative age disadvantage of being a 'summer born' child in the English education system.

In their press release the IFS states: 'Children born later in the school year perform significantly worse in exams than those born earlier in the school year, even up to GCSE level. Policy changes are needed if this unfair disadvantage is not to damage the chances of summer-born children.'

One of the IFS conclusions (6.3) is:

'.....the negative effects associated with receiving fewer terms of schooling are generally small, and often do not persist beyond Key Stage 1. This suggests that what is driving the August birth penalty is not differences in admissions policies.'

However, the only recommendation in your report explicitly regarding the summer born issue is: Recommendation 14 - (i) 'The preferred pattern of entry to reception classes should be the September immediately following a child?s fourth birthday.'

My question (yes I do have one) is is this summary fair and if not, what is being done to actually address the significant 'relative age inequality' in our primary schools?

We have lots of ideas ourselves if you are interested!

Sir Jim,
According to the Lamb enquiry 47% of primary and 42% of persistent absentees have SEN.
The enquiry also states that pupils with SEN are more than 8 times more likely to be permanently excluded than pupils without SEN.

The law says that the responsibility for ensuring that pupils attend school lies with the parent. In effect this results in parents being persecuted for their child's SEN. Why is there so little support for parents in these situations?

Another question regarding summer birth and school entry.

Having a Scottish husband I cannot see why England does not follow the eminently logical system of allowing reception to be delayed if the child is not ready.(Not entry to year 1 if delayed)

It is obvious some children, particularly boys, are not ready for school at just turned 4.

They crucially need to consolidate their social and play skills.I am expecting you will say reception is for this.This doesn't quite equate though.It becomes particularly apparent as they enter year 1 as education becomes more formal.

The inflexiblity of the English system is damaging a small subset of children.

The Cambridge Review set up by the govt in 2006 has been the biggest and most widely-supported review of primary education in a generation, and has come up with recommendations which are strongly supported by the teaching profession and many parents, for example on the right starting age for formal schooling and on radically re-shaping our outdated and inflexible curriculum.

Why was it felt that we needed another review of primary education in competition with the Cambridge Review, and what exactly does your study bring to the table?

Hi why did I set up freddies Reading? To help my son who is under great Ormond Street and has special educational needs, we have spent more time care and a good ofsted inspection to face a corrupt system - I faced them once as an ordinary mum and they offerred me the Mulberry Bush as my only option because our son was violent. Residential care an easy and great option to bury kids and their families. We have proven at Freddies Reading we can turn freddie around and only want the opportunity of more children.

It seems we can't have children because we took the local LEA to appeal one that was classed as bad as Susan's old authortiy!!

The whole SEN is bent and is funded via tax payers via the government and they devolevd responbility to local authorities and they chosen placement officers. Fact £662 million spent on taxing 236,000 statmented children someone help us!!

Apolgises for the syntax or spelling

Sir Jim - can I ask what you think about Enquiry Based Learning in primary schools? Do you think it is the most effective way to deliver the curriculum?

There is a really good parents' guide to the new curriculum here for anyone who wants to ask about that.

Sir Jim, your report states "Personal development together
with literacy, numeracy and ICT constitute the essentials for learning and life."

Would you please explain your reasoning and the evidence behind including ICT as a subject on par with literacy and numeracy?

Sir Jim

Please answer backtolingle's question in full.

As a parent of summer born children, I found that Y1 was the hardest year for them, particularly for my eldest daughter who was immature for her age and had a very low concentration span. Y1 children spend most of their day doing formal learning in many schools. My children would only get 30 minutes of golden time on a Friday afternoon from Y1 onwards. They were only 5, but the teachers said that they could not implement the national curriculum if the children had more playtime during formal teaching hours.

The transition between foundation stage and Y1 is too great. I can only is compare it to the jump between GCSE and A' Level, and its a long time since I sat an A' Level.

I would love to see learning through play being incorporated throughout the whole of KS1.

Hello Sir Jim - thanks for coming.

Do you consider that the primary curriculum is 'feminised', particularly in R and Y1?

If it is not (and I loathe the term - or rather the political position with which it's associated), then how do we account for the number of bright boys who are already disaffected by the time they reach Y3? (My own observation only, but shared by many of my friends).