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Louisa Young on alcoholism in the family: "Just because you're strong, don't mean it's easy"

90 replies

MumsnetGuestPosts · 10/07/2018 17:08

I’m lucky enough to have the instinct which says ‘that’s enough’ after a glass or two. My clever, gorgeous, successful, kind fiancé lacked that. He broke his foot, had a psychotic episode, and fell into a coma before truly accepting that drink was the problem. We got together on a project of sobriety - and he did sober up. AA took a long, long time, but he emerged a positive, grateful, and determined, if disabled, man. Then, two years on, he was diagnosed with throat cancer caused by alcoholism. He died sober, after five sober years.

Much as I resisted it, being with him was like a full-time job. Alcoholism is known as the Family Illness because it expands beyond the person who has it, and gets its hooks into everyone who loves them. It fills parents, siblings, partners and children with doubt and fear and shame and unearned guilt, making them think it’s their fault and their responsibility to solve the problem. And it is an illness - it has known symptoms, a predictable course, it damages both the body and the mind, it requires medical attention, it can kill. Don't let anyone tell you it’s a moral failing or a lack of willpower.

Do you think someone in your family is drinking too much, too often? Is it causing trouble? Is it your partner? Your child? You? When they pass out yet again or make another scene - is that alcoholism? We see the clues but we so want it not to be true that we can’t see the woods for the trees, and become blind to those indications. Bear in mind that it’s not what you drink, or how much you drink. It’s why you drink and what it does to you.

Some people get rat-arsed from time to time, but they don't ruin their life as a result; they don't make their children fear them or their partner hate them. Other people have a beer or two and take on a different personality: often arrogant and argumentative, frequently glassy-eyed and comatose; sometimes violent and aggressive; almost always incapable of stopping once they’ve started.

Drinking alcohol is normalised in Western societies and people who don't drink are often treated as bores or weirdos. Say no at prosecco o’clock and you get: ‘Are you pregnant then?’, ‘Oh, can you not drink?’, ‘Oh, go on!’ Sometimes, the whole world seems made up of people with alcohol problems who can’t bear it when someone chooses not to join in.

When drinking itself is so normalised, it’s no great leap to normalising alcoholic behaviour: the defensiveness when people who love them try to talk about it, the bravado, the blaming everyone else, the not listening, the not taking responsibility, the not being there, physically, emotionally or domestically. This is followed by the hangover days, the loss of memory, crashing the car, losing the job, and always drinking more, in a futile attempt to get past the shame. It is a dismal merry-go-round.

The family members don’t recognise it at first, and almost get used to it in a weird way. They slip into acceptance, while feeling they should be able to do something about it. It’s bad enough for adults, but for children it becomes a very damaging shadow under which they cannot grow straight. For parents looking at their drunk offspring, it’s harder still not to feel that you should have been able to stop this from happening. That it’s your fault.

But it’s not. Don’t blame yourself for its existence, or for the fact you can’t cure an illness with love. You have to get past that, and the sooner the better. Because then you can get help.

So, if we love an alcoholic in our family, what are we meant to do? It’s such terrible, complex territory. Nobody wants to go there. But it’s so hard to desert family who are so clearly in need of help. You love them. You're tied in. But here’s one thing - in the words of the song, ‘just because you’re strong don’t mean it’s easy’. There is no shame in seeking help for illness. It’s necessary.

Talk without shame. Go to the GP. Go to AlAnon. Get on the support threads here on Mumsnet. Google ClubSoda. Know that you didn't cause it, can’t change it, can’t cure it. Get help for yourself. Lead by example.

And then, if and when they come to recognise their condition and get help, you need to prepare for whatever it was they were drinking to block out.

Louisa Young is the author of You Left Early: A True Story of Love and Alcohol, published by Borough Press. Please post your comments and questions for Louisa in advance in the comments below and she will be joining us to answer questions on Monday 16 July at 9pm.

OP posts:
GeorgeIII · 15/07/2018 11:51

I thought this book on co-dependency was good. www.amazon.co.uk/Codependent-No-More-Controlling-Yourself/dp/0894864025?tag=mumsnetforum-21

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 15/07/2018 14:28

Wagyu, that sounds like a hell of a lot more than simple alcoholism. And believe me, I've known a lot of alcoholics and their stories.

Not that it makes any difference to you going NC to protect yourself and your family.

persephone2013 · 15/07/2018 14:29

I struggle with the concept that Alcoholism is an illness.

Cancer is an illness, Sepsis is an illness, you cannot decide not to have it. You can decide not to drink alcohol, and then you are no longer an alcoholic. Just like you are no longer a smoker when you decide not to smoke and no longer smoke. Alcoholism, like smoking is a choice. Perhaps by calling it an illness we enable the alcoholic to fail to take responsibility for their lifestyle CHOICE.

Unfashionable view I know (except it is the standard view in Russia), and I know I will get flamed.

wagyu · 15/07/2018 14:43

@Prawnofthepatriarchy even if it makes no difference, I'm really interested in hearing what else you think there is to it. I've not spoken in depth about it with anyone but DP, so hearing someone else's perspective is appreciated.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 15/07/2018 15:16

Persephone, you'll find yourself out on a limb on that one. Most medical authorities including international ones like the WHO, class alcoholism as a disease. It's not like sepsis, but a health condition like depression. Depression isn't catching, nor is there a blood test for it. Learning to think differently can help reduce its effects, just as with alcoholism.

Alcoholism is to do with how an individual processes alcohol, and alcoholics have slightly different brain chemistry. There's plenty of research. There is a strong genetic - i.e physical - basis for alcoholism.

You say You can decide not to drink alcohol, and then you are no longer an alcoholic.

That's not true. I will be an alcoholic until I die. That's one of the reasons alcoholics go to meetings. If I drank again, even after nearly 30 years, I would be right back where I left off in a matter of weeks.

whatyadoing · 15/07/2018 15:28

AA has a lot to answer for. Stole 13 years of my life. Some of the above posters appear to have aresholes for relatives. I suggest you look at medical information rather than AA mumbo-jumbo. You're classed as alcohol dependent if you consume more than 12 units daily - that's because your body needs alcohol the following day to function normally. Don't put an 'ism' on it. That takes away power, ability, strength.
You can with determination control drinking and the amount of it you consume. Don't let anybody tell you otherwise. The strength is within YOU, not some alleged 'higher power'.
Just little old you.
If you're an arsehole, not sure there is a cure for that.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 15/07/2018 15:43

OK,I'll have a go Wagyu.

  1. The speed is unusual. Her drinking started 8 years ago yet after 5 years she had galloped ahead to hiding bottles.

I started drinking in my teens, like most people. I hadn't progressed to hiding bottles until I was over 30 and, significantly, I'm very young to have got sober. Most alcoholics aren't fully established - and needing AA - until 10-15 years later. The normal speed of progress has been dramatically accelerated in your DM.

2 You say When confronted she had a complete breakdown, and started talking about absurd delusions, she was convinced of things that weren't true, and she had also been spending hundreds of pounds and couldn't remember what on. One time my DF confronted her on the same day he noticed hundreds of pounds had been withdrawn from their account and DM said she couldn't remember. She deleted all messages from her phone. It was like she was a completely different person to what we thought. She blamed my DF for her drinking because he never gave her attention or took her out anywhere.

All alcoholics lie about their drinking. That's
normal. But delusions and amnesia about big spending are not. What your describing sounds more like bipolar. I'd guess your DM's drinking has quite dramatically exacerbated her bipolar.

As it happens, two of my close relatives have bipolar and in many ways it's harder live with than alcoholism.

I was going to address all the points in your sad post, but the more I read the more I found myself being sure it's her bipolar and the effects of alcohol on her bipolar that are the problem.

Drinking alcoholics lie about their drinking. They lie about things connected to their drinking - if they lose their job over drink they'll claim their boss always hated them, for instance. They lie about being at the gym when they were in the pub.

But lying about completely random shit or to attack people isn't something most drunks do. And, remember, alcoholics are incredibly selfish. They will lie to you to get you to back off and let them drink. They don't normally message people aggressively, as they would rather drink in peace than engage with others.

People who grew up with an alcoholic parent often feel they were essentially ignored or unimportant. The drink was more important than they were. Your DM seems to be putting in a lot of effort to actively hurt you. That's unusual.

She was apologising to me, very touchy-feely, telling me she had sorted herself out yet she absolutely stank of booze.

That's plain delusional. I'd apologize to people, sure, but if I stank of booze? Nah.

Hope that helps.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 15/07/2018 15:49

All drinking alcoholics are arseholes because addicts are utterly selfish. I stopped being an arsehole as soon as I got sober. I have experience, strength and hope. Whatever you're doing now doesn't seem to have given you much worth sharing, whatyadoing.

GeorgeIII · 15/07/2018 15:50

The problem with calling it an illness is that then we the family must feel sorry for the alcohol dependent and help them get cured. When in fact we should leave them, imv.

wagyu · 15/07/2018 15:57

Thank you @Prawnofthepatriarchy

A lot of what you say makes sense and I guess it is true that a lot of it is down to her bipolar and not just the drink. She has been bipolar since before I was born and I've never known her to be or act this way towards me. I moved out as a teenager so I haven't seen or been around her 24/7 for well over 13 years. But we used to be close, talking daily and meeting up every 1-2 weeks. But that all stopped a few years ago after the drinking again, but we still spoke often and would meet up occasionally. You're absolutely right I doubt it went from a bit of drinking 8 years ago to suddenly hiding bottles 5 years later. I can only go on what DF and DSis tell me as I'm not around it all the time. Thanks for taking the time to read my long winded post Smile

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 15/07/2018 16:01

No. Compare it to schizophrenia. People often can't cope with living with schizophrenics so they don't. And that's OK. Plus the only treatment for alcoholism ime is total abstinence so if your alcoholic relative won't work on their recovery you are entirely justified in walking away. It's often the only thing you can do, both for you and for them.

I stopped drinking because I knew my marriage wouldn't survive. My love for him was greater than my love for booze.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 15/07/2018 16:02

Sorry, my reply was to GeorgeIII.

HopeClearwater · 15/07/2018 16:13

AA has a lot to answer for. Stole 13 years of my life

Oh yeah? How did it do that then? AA is a grassroots-up organisation without hierarchy. You don’t have to go to meetings. No one makes you go. You chose to go there. You chose to subscribe to the AA point of view. And that point of view is that meetings and fellows can provide support but that it’s only YOU who can stop drinking.

Do you mean you had 13 years of abstinence? If so, all the better.

whatyadoing · 15/07/2018 16:32

No - I mean I almost died because AA told me that I could never control my drinking. So I didn't.
I now drink maybe 2 glasses of wine in the evenings. BECAUSE I CAN CONTROL MY DRINKING. I can. Just me. No meetings, no shite, just a little bit of self discipline. Telling me for 13 years that I was powerless was the most dangerous thing I've ever heard. Hindsight is 20 20 vision.
I was told that I would not/could not/should not control my drinking. AA.
Well sorry to tell you - I can...

BuffyBee · 15/07/2018 16:54

Oh dear! Ds now says that he has never seen her behave like that before, (so that's alright then???!!!!!)
She was an absolute nightmare the whole time, prancing about, trying to be the centre of attention, befriending waiters and surf-board dudes, never mind the night out where she was touching the random guy.
Her reaction to being confronted about that was to storm off and when Ds and Dd went to find her, she was in a bar, had drank 10 drinks and the bar bill was £40, in two hours.
I asked him about the drunken verbal abuse every night, he said his Dd, exaggerates and lies and doesn't get on with her Dm. I asked if the Dd had lied then, he said, just exaggerated as it only happened about twice a month (so that's ok then?????!!!!!)
He said that she's not been "right" since her Df died!

Apparently, he's had serious words with her and told her that any repeat of the behaviour or drunken abuse at home and she will have to go to the Doctor for help or he will leave.
He says that she is remorceful.
She certainly wasn't remorseful on holiday! She was arrogant, entitled, nasty and egotistical.

What now?

bollocksitshappenedagain · 15/07/2018 18:12

My stbxh is an alcoholic although one who manages not to drink most of the time. However this is generally substituted with codeine, Panadol and endless fizzy drinks and sweets together the sugar. He never seems to feel comfortable with not drinking if that makes sense. He has a complete inability to handle stress in Any way and any negative comment (even such as whatever he had made for dinner wasn't as nice as the last time he made it) leads to him getting stroppy and arsey. He also has depression but does noting to help himself so finally (after he drank when in sole charge off dd's) I asked him to leave. He tried to say our relationship not being great made him drink but I pointed out his issues with drink predated us even getting together. There will always be a reason. The last reason was a friend of his having a tough time over something - yes that's shit but doesn't mean you need to drink. I have an element of guilt but at last I feel relaxed at home (I have a fairly full on job) I didn't realise how stressed I was all the time. Everyone keeps commenting how well I seem and I am happier. So I am sure it's the right call.

He needs to take responsibility for his own actions and mental / physical health.

My dd at the moment seem perfectly happy - I think that's down to the fact he never interacted with them much anyway apart from the essential stuff. He would never voluntarily read a bedtime story never offer to take them to the park. Only do stuff I organised.

pointythings · 15/07/2018 18:20

AA isn't the only way to recover from addiction - there are others. AA doesn't work for everyone. Some people can go back to controlled drinking and if you are one of those, good for you. But it isn't the case for the majority.

In my STBXH's case his need to drink is connected to a complete lack of self-esteem, a toxic belief in what he 'should' be which incorporates a 1950s image of masculinity and an inability to adapt to the world he finds himself in. 20 years in the military have not helped, he is completely institutionalised in mental terms. So he drinks because he cannot cope with the reality of life. If he were to tackle his thinking, he might well be able to recover and drink socially, but then again perhaps he might not. Not drinking is probably the safest option for most alcoholics.

As for the idea that you stop drinking and then you are no longer an alcoholic - hahahahahahahahahaha Hmm

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 15/07/2018 18:33

Telling me for 13 years that I was powerless was the most dangerous thing I've ever heard.

What on earth is dangerous about not drinking? You're not making a lot of sense, Whatyadoing. And "two glasses of wine in the evenings"? You do realise that's not normal social drinking? Most social drinkers have a glass or two a week.

pointythings · 15/07/2018 18:36

Two standard glasses of wine is half a bottle. So that's 35 units a week. Too much.

notabee · 16/07/2018 08:58

Interesting thread. Thank you.
My exh is an alcoholic, he drinks a bottle of spirits most nights. It's partly why he's an ex. He won't admit it's an issue and he gets pretty aggressive when drunk.
I've also had an issue with alcohol though. I drank to blot stuff out and in the end it was only way of coping, if you can call it that.
The turning point was one of my DC saying that i'd ruined something for them as I was drunk, again.
Honestly until that point I believed that they were probably unaware and I was partly in denial about how bad things had got.
I went to a couple of AA meetings (and they did say about not completely stopping overnight but only IF you drank vast quantities as abstaining could cause seizures) and whilst it wasn't for me I did get some good advice.
Roll on quite a few years and I actually have drinking under control, I actually very rarely drink but if I do, I can now stop after a couple and I will. I don't enjoy getting drunk, I'm not sure I ever did.
I don't consider myself an alcoholic though as I think I was addicted to blotting everything out (self medicating) as opposed to the alcohol itself. Would you agree with that?

LouisaYoung · 16/07/2018 12:24

Hi all - Just checking in to say that I'm looking forward to answering your questions tonight from 9pm. Lots of interesting discussion already, and so much to talk about --

HopeClearwater · 16/07/2018 20:53

Whatyadoing

So you ignored the REALLY IMPORTANT message of AA - which is NOT TO DRINK - and now you’re knocking back half a bottle seven days a week?
The denial is strong with this one...

RachelMumsnet · 16/07/2018 21:00

Thanks so much for writing the guest post Louisa which has opened up so much debate. Thanks also for agreeing to join us tonight to discuss the issues raised her and answer questions. There's already a lot to get through so over to you.

Thanks to everyone who has joined this discussion so far - Louisa will be with us for the next hour answering questions and commenting on your posts. Over to you Louisa...

LouisaYoung · 16/07/2018 21:03

Hi everybody - here I am. I'll start by going back to a few points raised earlier -

LouisaYoung · 16/07/2018 21:06

Notabee You say 'I actually have drinking under control, I actually very rarely drink but if I do, I can now stop after a couple and I will. I don't enjoy getting drunk, I'm not sure I ever did'. So you probably aren't an alcoholic. There's lots of different ways of using alcohol, and of drinking too much of it: not every problem drinker is addicted. But you don't sound as if you have a problem .

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