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Louisa Young on alcoholism in the family: "Just because you're strong, don't mean it's easy"

90 replies

MumsnetGuestPosts · 10/07/2018 17:08

I’m lucky enough to have the instinct which says ‘that’s enough’ after a glass or two. My clever, gorgeous, successful, kind fiancé lacked that. He broke his foot, had a psychotic episode, and fell into a coma before truly accepting that drink was the problem. We got together on a project of sobriety - and he did sober up. AA took a long, long time, but he emerged a positive, grateful, and determined, if disabled, man. Then, two years on, he was diagnosed with throat cancer caused by alcoholism. He died sober, after five sober years.

Much as I resisted it, being with him was like a full-time job. Alcoholism is known as the Family Illness because it expands beyond the person who has it, and gets its hooks into everyone who loves them. It fills parents, siblings, partners and children with doubt and fear and shame and unearned guilt, making them think it’s their fault and their responsibility to solve the problem. And it is an illness - it has known symptoms, a predictable course, it damages both the body and the mind, it requires medical attention, it can kill. Don't let anyone tell you it’s a moral failing or a lack of willpower.

Do you think someone in your family is drinking too much, too often? Is it causing trouble? Is it your partner? Your child? You? When they pass out yet again or make another scene - is that alcoholism? We see the clues but we so want it not to be true that we can’t see the woods for the trees, and become blind to those indications. Bear in mind that it’s not what you drink, or how much you drink. It’s why you drink and what it does to you.

Some people get rat-arsed from time to time, but they don't ruin their life as a result; they don't make their children fear them or their partner hate them. Other people have a beer or two and take on a different personality: often arrogant and argumentative, frequently glassy-eyed and comatose; sometimes violent and aggressive; almost always incapable of stopping once they’ve started.

Drinking alcohol is normalised in Western societies and people who don't drink are often treated as bores or weirdos. Say no at prosecco o’clock and you get: ‘Are you pregnant then?’, ‘Oh, can you not drink?’, ‘Oh, go on!’ Sometimes, the whole world seems made up of people with alcohol problems who can’t bear it when someone chooses not to join in.

When drinking itself is so normalised, it’s no great leap to normalising alcoholic behaviour: the defensiveness when people who love them try to talk about it, the bravado, the blaming everyone else, the not listening, the not taking responsibility, the not being there, physically, emotionally or domestically. This is followed by the hangover days, the loss of memory, crashing the car, losing the job, and always drinking more, in a futile attempt to get past the shame. It is a dismal merry-go-round.

The family members don’t recognise it at first, and almost get used to it in a weird way. They slip into acceptance, while feeling they should be able to do something about it. It’s bad enough for adults, but for children it becomes a very damaging shadow under which they cannot grow straight. For parents looking at their drunk offspring, it’s harder still not to feel that you should have been able to stop this from happening. That it’s your fault.

But it’s not. Don’t blame yourself for its existence, or for the fact you can’t cure an illness with love. You have to get past that, and the sooner the better. Because then you can get help.

So, if we love an alcoholic in our family, what are we meant to do? It’s such terrible, complex territory. Nobody wants to go there. But it’s so hard to desert family who are so clearly in need of help. You love them. You're tied in. But here’s one thing - in the words of the song, ‘just because you’re strong don’t mean it’s easy’. There is no shame in seeking help for illness. It’s necessary.

Talk without shame. Go to the GP. Go to AlAnon. Get on the support threads here on Mumsnet. Google ClubSoda. Know that you didn't cause it, can’t change it, can’t cure it. Get help for yourself. Lead by example.

And then, if and when they come to recognise their condition and get help, you need to prepare for whatever it was they were drinking to block out.

Louisa Young is the author of You Left Early: A True Story of Love and Alcohol, published by Borough Press. Please post your comments and questions for Louisa in advance in the comments below and she will be joining us to answer questions on Monday 16 July at 9pm.

OP posts:
anitagreen · 13/07/2018 17:57

I suspect my parents are alcoholics I'd love some input on this too, they have drunk every day or every other day for as long as I can remember, it's never one drink it's a crate, or it's four bottles of wine a night. Not really spirits but lager Stella to be precise. They row infront of the children constantly, they did it infront of us as kids and it's never stopped,
They have money issues because of the drinking and zero budgeting the house is a shit hole Blush. I'm now 25 with my own two kids and I have nothing but shit memory's of them as everything was about booze, our birthdays was boozy, a day at the lido booze. Going on holiday was 7 nights in the bar and left to do our own thing. Don't get me wrong I have a drink now and then and I do really enjoy it. But I will never drink in front of my children and I certainly wouldn't ever dream of drinking with my children once they reach an old enough age either.
Can two people who drink till they are drunk every day or every other day numerous cans or wines but still go to work be alcoholics?

anitagreen · 13/07/2018 17:59

I have actually cut my mum off now as when she does drink she becomes very spiteful and nasty to anyone around her including my children and my siblings. I was more a less raised by nan who is like my mum, my brothers did there own thing there is 22 years between my little brother and me. And my other two sisters are 8 & 4

pointythings · 13/07/2018 19:42

anita alcoholics can be functional and hold down a job for a very long time until the wheels come off - but they always, always do in the end. If you feel your younger siblings are at risk you may actually need to report them to SS.

Whatever you do, I would recommend seeking some support for yourself. Cutting your mum off is probably a good decision - but sticking to that may not be easy. See if you can find a support group for relatives of alcoholics in your area - Al-Anon are the most common but there are others. I go to one weekly and they are a lifeline. They have helped me deal with the guilt of throwing my husband out and ending my marriage, they have sourced counselling for my DDs and me and the other people there really get me - because they have all been there. I can't recommend it highly enough. Good luck Flowers PM me if you want to talk more.

lottemart · 13/07/2018 20:57

Ive been with my husband for 7 years and throughout that time we have always had our ups and downs with alcohol. I really struggle to know if there is a problem as I quite often have friends and family tell me that most of the country enjoy a drink - especially on the weekend! He doesnt drink every night but generally on the weekend, the problem is that he will drink until he can barely function. We can go out and this can become extremely embaressing as he can (not always) become argumentative and slightly confrontational. I tend to now aboid social situations for this reason. It all seems to be worse when he feels stressed about something. His father is an alcoholic and has also chosen this over his children and he does not feel like he had a very supportive upbringing from either of his parents. The thing that scares him the most is that he will turn out the same and his child will feel the same way about him as he does his father. I now feel like i am a nervous wreck every Friday as I do not know if he is going to bring home alcohol and the minute i hear the first ring pull i become really anxious (i suffer with anxiety anyway). I just never know how the night is going to be and if I am going to have to help him get to bed or if he is going to have a couple with no real impact. My main concern now is that i am 10 weeks pregnant and I have always told him that I will not bring a child up with him having no control over his drinking! He understood this and for most of the last year he has managed it with no major issues but now im pregnant he seems to have lost control again. I guess i always question if its him with the alcohol problem or my anxiety problems getting the better of me causing me to over-react. Its really helped reading all your posts, thank you.

pointythings · 13/07/2018 21:11

lotte your H does not have a healthy relationship with alcohol. If he has no off switch when he drinks, then there's an issue. And it will impact on you and your soon to be DC. If he's drinking until he can't function every weekend then it really is something he needs to address. Have that conversation with him and take it from there. If he can admit there is a problem and seek help, great. If not, you will need to get help for yourself and consider your option.

lottemart · 13/07/2018 21:38

Thank you for the reply. I will speak with him; we have always had good communication (particularly about alcohol and his family problems) and I think deep down he knows that his relationship with alcohol is a problem for him. I went with him to the doctors once (which was initiated by him) and the GP told him that he didnt think there was an issue and that most of the country drink on a weekend to relax (which didnt really help me with what i was saying) I think because he doesnt drink every day, people dont see it as a problem but then they arent the ones sorting everything out when hes drinking. My child will always be my main priority and I will do whatever it takes to protect them. Im just frustrated because I've always said its my choice if i stay in the relationship but a child doesnt get that choice, ive tried to not be selfish and i thought the timing was finally right because he had been in control for such a long time Sad

pointythings · 13/07/2018 21:45

Your GP doesn't sound helpful. Does your husband know how many units of alcohol he drinks on a weekly basis? A lot of people are above the recommended limit of 14 unite and it isn't a problem really, but if he's regularly above 50 then it really is. For comparison, my H was on 140 units a week that I knew about - and had bottles hidden in the bedroom on top of that.

springydaff · 13/07/2018 22:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BanoffeePieIsMyFave · 13/07/2018 22:36

I am a GP and am sorry to hear the stories here about health professional’s unhelpful remarks. The drinker in my life is my husband. We are currently separated; he is back in inpatient rehab for a second stint. Who knows what the outcome will be. On the one hand I am incredibly proud of him, he has disclosed previous childhood sexual abuse, referred himself for specialist counselling and is now back in rehab completely of his own accord. On the other hand, alcoholics can be incredibly frustrating!! For a long time I was filled with hatred and resentment at the unfairness of it all but with time, self care and the support of so many people I have allowed myself to let that go.
One of the best things that I have learnt in my personal journey with being married to an alcoholic is about healthy boundaries - something I discuss regularly with my friends and my patients. We have to care for ourselves! Life can be so bloody difficult sometimes.

BigcatLittlecat · 13/07/2018 23:35

My husband is an alcoholic. He says it is a disease and he can't do anything about it. As a previous poster said the wheels always come off and our wheels have come off in the last few weeks. He has stopped working temporarily to do work in the house but in the last three weeks nothing has been done! He gets to the stage he's so pissed he's staggering and not knowing what he's doing. He wakes up feeling rough so starts drinking straight away! I've been told that it's my fault he drinks for various reasons.
I have a highly pressured professional job and I don't know what I'm coming home too! It's dreadful and I just don't know what to do. This week he has drunk at a conservative estimate over 80 cans and I've come down to bottles of wine open which he doesn't even like but he's opened them to just carry on drinking.
What can I do? I don't drink at all anymore. The sad thing is he's a great guy who I love so do I just sit it out and wait for the functioning alcoholic to come back? Says he's going back to work a week Monday! Who knows? It's just all so sad.

pointythings · 14/07/2018 09:31

Bigcat you can start by getting some help for yourself. Al-Anon and similar groups are not about how to help your OH stop drinking, they are about how to manage your own health and wellbeing in your life with an alcoholic. You will need to learn boundaries if you're going to deal with this effectively.

Because you can't go on like this. You have to talk to him about it - but not until you have it clear in your own head what you want to happen. Then when you have that clear, you make it happen - and that means setting boundaries and sticking to them.

I knew what I wanted to happen when I confronted my STBXH about his drinking - I wanted him to stop. It was necessary for him to stop. As it turned out, he didn't want to stop, so I followed through on the consequences: divorce. Those were his options: the drink or his family. he chose the drink. It was hard. But he is now no longer living with us while we wait for the divorce to go through, life is infinitely better for me and our DDs. You're in a good position because you have a job - you'll be able to make it. So start thinking and planning, find your nearest Al-Anon group and start taking care of yourself. Because you cannot help him.

anitagreen · 14/07/2018 11:01

Hey pointythings I'm not sure how to message you I'm on the iPhone app (I feel about 90 when I type that) lol. But so far it has been two weeks I haven't spoken to her she now has blocked me off everything but I know in time she will pop back up again thats the irritating part and she will forget everything that's been said Sad

pointythings · 14/07/2018 11:57

Hi Anita to message me just click on the 'Message poster' which sits next to my name on all my posts. I am open to being messaged.

I think you should use the calm to focus on getting yourself some RL support. Just Google Al-Anon and follow the links to find groups in your area. I can't emphasise enough how necessary it is. When she does try to pop back into your life, you need to be ready with boundaries in place as to what you will and will not accept from her.

By setting boundaries, you will also be helping her - alcoholics need to learn that they will not be allow to get away with doing whatever they want and that their loved ones will not give them money and generally enable their choices.

Vagabond · 14/07/2018 16:23

My mother is 80 and is an alcoholic. She ruined my childhood. She still drinks all the time, but tries to hide it. When me and my sisters visit, we're on tenterhooks when we wake up in the morning and join her in her study for morning coffee. Normally, she's been drinking..... we can tell right away... the voice! The effusiveness! It makes me feel sick. Then she'll volunteer to drive us somewhere.....I hate her, but I love her. I've found that confronting her doesn't work. We children have confronted her many times but she shuts us down, leaves the room and won't discuss it. Not even later.... she just leaves the room. What I hate the most is the lurking. The lurking in the kitchen because she keeps her vodka stored in so many hidden places. She is always lurking and I hate it.

BuffyBee · 14/07/2018 18:49

We've just returned from a family holiday where it became blindingly obvious that our Ddil is an alcoholic. Her Dd spilled the beans, so to speak, after she went on a night out with her and two cousins.

She came back and told my Ds that her Dm had been in her words, being a slut and she had found her round a corner, kissing a guy, saying he was her boyfriend and touching his dick. There's more that she's told her cousins about on other nights out.
She told us all that there were massive drunken rows and her Dm basically terrorised my Ds every night.
He says, it's been going on for about 2 years and gradually getting worse, he told me he would have left her two years ago but for their 5year old, he's going to ask her to stop drinking for two weeks and if she doesn't he's going to leave. I don't think that will work!
He's coming to talk to me tomorrow, I don't know what to advise!

SuperSkyRocketing · 14/07/2018 20:48

BuffyBee as the child of an alcoholic mother I would advise your DS that the best he can do for his DD is to leave his DW and go for full custody, unless she stops drinking and gets help immediately. My DF never said anything to my DM about her drinking and did nothing to support me as the child in the house, he just buried his head in the sand and pretended it wasn't happening. I got left with her most evenings and it's caused so many issues for me into adult life. Growing up with an alcoholic parent is horribly damaging and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. He needs to do everything he can to protect his DD.

pointythings · 14/07/2018 22:05

It's difficult, buffy because his DCs are so very young. He will have to tread carefully, possibly contact SS to get a paper trail of his wife's addiction and associated behaviour in place - especially if she doesn't work and is considered the primary carer. He does need to start this process now and not faff about with 2-week trials. My H tried that one - he promised to keep a spreadsheet of how much he had. I said no, it was rehab or divorce, and if he didn't stop drinking completely it would be divorce anyway, which is where we are at now. I'm lucky our DDs are old enough to be allowed to refuse contact. DD2 saw her dad in the supermarket today - in the booze aisle, of course - and had a panic attack. NC is absolutely right for them. Your DS needs to work towards a position of supervised contact only.

Laughteronthewing · 14/07/2018 23:23

NC to post.

I can see that the wheels are coming off.
My freinds see too it but the family on both sides just seem to want to sweep it all under the carpet. DH functions very well, although it's starting to slip now and again. I often wonder what he could achieve if he wasn't a drinker as he holds down a good job.

Things usually come to a head when somthing big occurs due to the drinking (a night in hospital after a limb gets broken or a stupid and colossal embarrassment occurs) and then he tries to stop altogether. The trouble is he just can't, I did read that you could get medication to help with that?

I think it also makes him angry, I withdraw as soon as I hear the sound of the first ring pull and now don't re-connect until at least after he has had lunch the next day. Very luckily we have space to sleep appart when this occurs, I couldn't go back to sharing a bed when he drinks.

I have wondered about Alanon, the information on this thread has been helpful, it didn't occur to me that Al-anon was about getting help for me rather than being about helping me help the drinker. My last hurdle to get over is my mindset of 'why should I give up an evening of MY week because of YOUR stupid drinking?' If anyone has any words of wisdom to assist me with that then please do fire away.

Currently I am getting my life in order just in case/when I need to go it alone with the DC's, it's an odd way to live.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 15/07/2018 00:34

@GeorgeIII, you say:

I’ve not come across any alcoholic explaining why they drank. Or what they were blocking out.

At first I just had a good time. Alcohol seemed to give me more pleasure than the average person. Lots of good times.

Then it suddenly got darker. Drink became essential. Guilt was my constant companion. I'd let down people I love because of my drinking then, completely blind to the contradiction, drink to dull the pain of my betrayal. I drank to block out the guilt and the shame. The guilt and the shame that were the result of my drinking.

Then it became like dreary duty. Feeding the greed/need for alcohol, trapped on a treadmill. First thing in the morning, off to the off licence Then I drank to block out the guilt, the shame and the nameless dreads which are far more frightening than anything I can describe.

l stepped off the treadmill nearly 30 years ago. My DC were born after I got sober. Had I got pregnant while still drinking I would have had a termination. I owe my life to AA. It's given me every good thing in my life.

GeorgeIII · 15/07/2018 08:23

Thanks, @Prawnofthepatriarchy interesting that there was no 'event' in your life that caused it. My DF drank all his life, not hugely heavily but enough to give all us DCs 'issues'. We DCs smoked and drank too much too though I wouldn't say we are alcoholics but I suspect there is a genetic link for some.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 15/07/2018 10:03

There was an event that suddenly ramped up my drinking - being made redundant from a job I absolutely loved. I got three months salary. So I had the money and the time to brood. But in hindsight that was just an excuse, or perhaps catalyst might be a better word. I was already on an alcoholic trajectory, GeorgeIII.

Heredity can play a big part. My DF is a 40+ years sober alcoholic, one of my DBs drinks too much, and tragically one of my cousins died of it earlier this year. We're riddled with the gene. At least with heredity you can warn the DC as they grow up.

I suffer with chronic depression. My old GP, who had never known me as a drunk, says she's sure that self medicating made me an alkie.

AA has given me so much. When my DH was dying at home for a year, and then after he died, I had a counsellor who was very impressed by the tools AA had given me to navigate a nearly impossible situation (my DC were still at primary school and one of them also had a serious, though not immediately life threatening condition). She said she'd pass them on to other clients.

pointythings · 15/07/2018 10:36

laughter don't think of it as giving up a night a week. Think of it as an investment in your mental health and your wellbeing. It has certainly been that for me. The things you learn in these support groups have uses far beyond just managing an addict in your life.

Dady2 · 15/07/2018 10:45

adultchildren.org/ i found this group really helpful if you have developed protective personality traits as a result of dysfunction in family not just alcoholism but it can be verbal abuse etc. A lot of outwardly successful people have dysfunctional families so it is nothing to be ashamed of and it can help to have a place to talk about it. I was surprised at my first meeting how normal everyone was. Also i think these problems can come up again when you have children and your parents become grandparents. There is also steps to help you with negative coping mechanisms.. It has really helped me as often any addiction for example validation through overwork, people pleasing is a symptom so if you stop one trait you move to another addiction like overeating unless you address the cause. My father is still an alcoholic at age of 70 and keeps promising to give up and i have very little to do with him as he has had such a negative impact on my life. That brings its own sense of guilt and shame as to what other people think. It is important to find a support network that works for you and heard al anon is good too.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 15/07/2018 11:02

I can see that the wheels are coming off.
My freinds see too it but the family on both sides just seem to want to sweep it all under the carpet.

One of the hardest things for the families of alcoholics is that drink is so bloody acceptable, Laughter. It's everywhere. If your DH was on heroin no one would be minimising. Ignore people who don't understand. You know it's wrecking everything.

You say I did read that you could get medication to help with that. Yes, you can. If your DH is physically dependent on alcohol withdrawal can be dangerous and should only be done under medical supervision. When I stopped drinking I was given Heminevrin, also called Clomethiazole for three days. Even then I had a grand mal seizure and nearly severed my tongue.

Please try Al Anon. It's for you and your DC, not for the drinker though, given a lot of partners enable the alcoholic, some meetings are better than others.

wagyu · 15/07/2018 11:38

Great thread and really insightful posts. Name changed for this as it's not something I've talked about on here before. Sorry it's a long one.

I'm NC with my DM due to her alcoholism. She started drinking around 8 years ago. Drinking has never been part of our family apart from a glass of cheap fizzy wine with Christmas dinner, so it came out the blue. It started with a glass of wine on a Friday night, then a bottle, then rather quickly it became almost every night over a period of a few months. She has a disability and she is bipolar. So while I don't know of any one event that triggered the drinking, I know she found just day to day life quite tough so that could have been a reason. DF quickly told her he thought the drinking was getting out of hand and she stopped.

Around 2-3 years ago DF and Dsis (who live with DM) found empty bottles hidden around the house and discovered she was going to a pub almost daily. Due to her medication her speech can often be a bit slurry anyway so it hadn't been obvious that she'd been drinking and she must have allowed enough time to sober up a bit before they got home from work. When confronted she had a complete breakdown, and started talking about absurd delusions, she was convinced of things that weren't true, and she had also been spending hundreds of pounds and couldn't remember what on. One time my DF confronted her on the same day he noticed hundreds of pounds had been withdrawn from their account and DM said she couldn't remember. She deleted all messages from her phone. It was like she was a completely different person to what we thought. She blamed my DF for her drinking because he never gave her attention or took her out anywhere.

She temporarily went to AA meetings but then befriended a few people there and started drinking again. My DF and Dsis continued to find empty bottles but they would rarely bring it up with her. It was like they thought it would stop on its own or they just didn't want to rock the boat. I went through a really bad time at one point and initially told DM I wanted a few days to myself (she would message multiple times a day about it) and instead of giving me that space she sent messages to my friends telling them things I had said about them (just stupid gossipy things or things that had happened their lives). I don't know why. It's like she wanted me to be isolated from everyone during my shitty time. She also sent me abusive messages about being a terrible daughter. Luckily my friends stood by me and that's the first time I went NC with DM.

It lasted a year before I gave in due to DF asking me to. DM was attending meetings and had stopped drinking. This later turned out to be untrue and she was seen by a friend of Dsis in the pub. Before the friend had a chance to tell Dsis, DM tried convincing her that this friend was a liar and a thief. She wanted to disparage this person's name in the hope my Dsis wouldn't believe them. It was utterly bizarre that she was capable of behaving this way as it's not something I'd ever seen in her before. When I told her I knew she was drinking again, the messages were first apologetic and determined to quit, but they soon became abusive again and she blamed my DF, my Dsis and me for various reasons that had caused her to drink. Again I went NC and have done ever since.

I saw her recently (hadn't planned to but she was there with DF when I popped over to see him) and her behaviour was giddy and erratic. She was apologising to me, very touchy-feely, telling me she had sorted herself out yet she absolutely stank of booze. DF was annoyed with her that she was drunk when she knew I was popping over. It's like he wanted her to pretend long enough so I would start talking to her again. I've received messages from him asking me to talk to her, that it would make his life easier. But I don't want to. I have DC who I don't want around an alcoholic. And I don't want to be pressured into having a relationship with someone who regularly sends me abusive messages when they're drunk. I can't trust anything I say to her in case she breaks my confidence or throws it back in my face. DF and Dsis hardly have anything to do with my DC now because they say my DM gets upset if she's not included, despite them both being adults who are individually capable of having a relationship with my DC away from DM. They used to be really close to my DC when they were little but over the past 2-3 years they've hardly seen them. I regularly try to arrange for DF or Dsis to do something with DC but they won't without DM. It makes me sad that they and DC will miss out.

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