Webchat with Mara Clarke of the Abortion Support Network, TUESDAY MARCH 10, 12.30pm

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello

We're pleased to announce that - following a suggestion made by MNers on this and other threads - Mara Clarke of the Abortion Support Network will be joining us for a live webchat on Tuesday 10 March at 12.30pm.

Mara Clarke is a mother, a freelancer, and the founder and director of the Abortion Support Network, which (in its own words) 'helps women from Ireland and Northern Ireland travel to England to gain access to safe and legal abortion'. ASN does not directly campaign on abortion-related matters; its aim is to help those who wish to access abortion facilities but do not have the financial means to pay for travel costs or for the procedure.

Please join us on Tuesday at 12:30 to discuss the Abortion Support Network's work and related issues. As ever, if you can't make it on the day, please post your questions in advance and do remember our webchat guidelines.

@Alibabsandthe40Musketeers

I don't really have a question, just wanted to add a voice of support for what you are doing.

I had an abortion in my very early twenties, at just past twenty weeks. I had no idea I was pregnant until a few days beforehand.

Even so the NHS couldn't get me seen quick enough and it was only because my parents, god bless them, had the money to pay for me to go privately.

There was an irish woman there who had travelled over with her husband, and they had lied to family members about what they were doing. She was absolutely terrified of her mother-in-law finding out :(

Hi Alibabsandthe40Musketeers

It often happens that women don't know that they are pregnant until they are quite advanced in their pregnancy, which is another thing to think about when attacks on time limits for abortion happen. I am so glad you had your parents to support you. You are correct that because of the stigma around abortion around abortion in N/Ireland many women are unable to tell anybody other than possibly the one person they need to look after their children while they travel over. All it does is add to the stress.

Mara, thank you for answering my question. Your answer fills me with such rage and the absolute deepest sympathy for my compatriots who find themselves in such an invidious position.

@TheBabyFacedAssassin

I would just like to add to Mara's statement about fatal foetal abnormality if that is ok. In my experience the diagnosis of fatal foetal abnormality was made at the 20 week scan although I had to be sent to a specialist unit for confirmation, that appointment was 11 days after my 20 week scan. Then at that appointment it was recommended that we return for another scan. 10 days later. It was only at that point, 3 weeks after the diagnosis of fatal foetal abnormality, that it was 'officially' confirmed. The point that I'm trying to make is that in many cases there is no rush to officially diagnose a fatal foetal abnormality because the doctor's hands are tied as to what they can do anyway. Also, there is no information whatsoever available from doctors if you are facing a fatal foetal abnormality diagnosis about your options, no fault of the doctors, but it is because the law prohibits them from even talking about termination of pregnancy. So many women don't even know that they have the option of travelling to England.

Hi TheBabyFacedAssassin,

You are absolutely right about that. Many women don't receive the full information about their options. If they do, it's presented as 'if you choose to travel' as if they are booking a holiday! This has deeply upset some of our clients.

We have recently had a case where a doctor was giving false hope to the couple to push them over the limit for abortion. It is just disgusting.

I do think that awareness has gone up recently because of a very brave group of parents who were forced to travel to terminate for medical reasons. They have been very public and have spoken to the press and The Dail. They are on Facebook and Twitter. They are called Termination For Medical Reason.

@fiddlybulb

Thanks for answering my question Mara. I'm really shocked by the last line ('And last May the High Court reaffirmed that women from NI can?t access abortions on the NHS, even if they travel to England.') - I realise this is probably naive of me!

What's the legal mechanism for this? Are NI women specifically barred from having abortions on the NHS on the mainland, or are all NI people barred from accessing NHS services outside Ulster?

What does public opinion in Northern Ireland say - do you know whether a big majority there are opposed to abortion?

Pass on the legal question but it's just about abortion. If you had an heart attack in London you would be treated. I can't think why, other than that the 1967 Abortion Act wasn't extended to Northern Ireland. And of course because of the patriarchy! :)

As far as the public opinion is concerned, most of the people I meet are pro-choice! Polls have been done which show public support for abortion. But then we get into, lies, damn lies and statistics. For me, public opinion is shown by the thousand or so women who travel over for abortion and the hundreds if not thousands who buy early medical abortion pills on the internet.

Babyface was England ever presented to you as an option or was it just too late?

Mara - Thank you for responding. That is disgusting that they were given false hope! I am aware of the group that you are referring to, they are very brave.

And I can totally understand why some of your clients have been upset by that, choose is not the word I would use, it is FORCED.
As well, as far as I am aware, parents travelling to England for a termination for fatal foetal abnormality may not always have the option for a post mortem to be carried out, which is very important for identifying if there are any genetic issues that might carry through to future children.

Thank you so much for doing this webchat and for the work that you do.

Thanks so much to everyone for coming on and again to enormous for starting this. Just to plug ASN, we're a registered UK charity, and you can find out more about our work at www.abortionsupport.org.uk We send out a newsletter every month that talks about the kind of people we are hearing from. Also don't forget to support Abortion Rights Campaign (@freesafelegal), Abortion Rights UK, Alliance for Choice, Termination for Medical Reason and Education for Choice. Finally, because of all the talk about foetal anomalies, I wanted to shout out the other ARC, Antenatal Results and Choices, the UK charity that helps people who receive a diagnosis of foetal anomaly. They are wonderful.

And that's me, signing off! Thanks so much for having me!

M

Mouse no, not at all. In fact by the time I was given the official diagnosis I was exactly 23 weeks and 5 days pregnant so when I rang the following day to see about travelling to England I was already over the time limit.

Thanks so much to Mara for coming in today and to MNers for your questions.

@Baddz

Thanks for answering my question mara. MN....can we sort something out with ASN for the next giving week? Cheers!

You'll have to get nominating when the nomination thread goes up - watch this space!

I won't say thank you again cos I'm banned but for Mara and all my love to the volunteers.

babyface I can't believe you had to go through all that. Bloody government.

fiddlybulb here's a link to a survey done recently www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/amnesty-launches-new-campaign-abortion-northern-ireland for abortion in the cases of fatal foetal abnormality, rape and incest.

I think a large number of people want change but are shouted down by the likes of precious life and youth defence.

"Ah, the age old question! If you were a journalist, my response would be: “That’s the wrong question. It’s not what brought me to found ASN, but why, in 2009, it needed to be founded.”

you're absolutely right, but thanks for interpreting it as i intended!

@TheBabyFacedAssassin

Mouse no, not at all. In fact by the time I was given the official diagnosis I was exactly 23 weeks and 5 days pregnant so when I rang the following day to see about travelling to England I was already over the time limit.

God that's really terrible! Just for knowledge, there are a few private hospitals in England that will terminate after 23w5d. The cost however is insane, close to £3000 as opposed to £1310 up to 24 weeks in a clinic.

Really enjoyed this web chat. It has gladdened my feminist cockles.

Thank you Mara and MN for making it happen.

Would ASN still be able to help someone that was over 24 weeks Mara?

Thank you Mara! Unfortunately I learnt that only recently, not when I really needed the information.

But it's not all bad, my experience has driven me to do everything I can to make a difference so women in the future have a choice and can have autonomy over their bodies.

Thanks again for requesting this Mouse!

thanks so much mara and others on here for sharing experiences and highlighting the knock-on effects of the restrictions that might be less obvious too

i will keep pestering my MP!

also, because it's relevant to the discussion, and there might be some on here who might not have seen it, there is a documentary film called Vessel vesselthefilm.com/ which is a very interesting watch, following Women on Waves who provide advice about safe abortions and support to women in countries where access to abortion is very restricted or impossible

TheBabyFacedAssassin

I'll download that petula. Thanks for the link.

Isn't Mara great. An inspiration. And she gives a good web chat too.

She's lovely in real life too. When I met her she had baked cookies to take to the Marie Stopes escorts.