Webchat with Mara Clarke of the Abortion Support Network, TUESDAY MARCH 10, 12.30pm

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello

We're pleased to announce that - following a suggestion made by MNers on this and other threads - Mara Clarke of the Abortion Support Network will be joining us for a live webchat on Tuesday 10 March at 12.30pm.

Mara Clarke is a mother, a freelancer, and the founder and director of the Abortion Support Network, which (in its own words) 'helps women from Ireland and Northern Ireland travel to England to gain access to safe and legal abortion'. ASN does not directly campaign on abortion-related matters; its aim is to help those who wish to access abortion facilities but do not have the financial means to pay for travel costs or for the procedure.

Please join us on Tuesday at 12:30 to discuss the Abortion Support Network's work and related issues. As ever, if you can't make it on the day, please post your questions in advance and do remember our webchat guidelines.

@WentworthMillerMad

It's very difficult for women to access abortions in Scotland. In Glasgow you can join the nhs waiting list, pay 3k to the Nuffield or Tavel to Newcastle to Marie stopes etc. why is this!? Abortion is made very difficult and / or expensive for women in Scotland.

WentworthMillerMad, thank you for raising that point. I claim a bit of ignorance about provision in Scotland but from what I understand the main difference between Scotland and England is that in England, almost all abortions are done ON the NHS but BY “private” clinics, like bpas and Marie Stopes. In Scotland, almost all abortions are done ON the NHS and BY the NHS. This is why Irish women can’t get abortions in Scotland – there are no non-NHS clinics. So in Scotland, women need to wait for an NHS appointment. Last time I checked wait times in England were 3-11 weeks (but that statistic is from 2007 or so) depending on where you live. Also through ASN we’ve hosted a few Scottish women who needed later term procedures who were only able to access them in England. Abortion Rights UK (www.abortionrights.org.uk) will know heaps more about abortion in Scotland – am pretty sure they have a Scottish branch as well – and they will know what kind of campaigns are in place to get better access.

@bullseyebraces

Have you seen the caseload change in the years ASN has been running?

Bullseybraces, our first full year we heard from 89 women, couples and families. In 2014, we heard from 552. Maths is another of my weak areas, but think that's an increase of about 500%. So yes, a bit of an increase! In January of this year we had our busiest month ever with 71 client contacts.

bpas prices for Irish women and Marie Stopes fees

Thanks for answering my question mara.
MN....can we sort something out with ASN for the next giving week?
Cheers!

I'm another just coming along to say how much I appreciate the work that you and others like you do. Talking to Mouse on here has really opened my eyes to the realities of how appallingly women are still treated in parts of this country. Abortion law like NI has, has no place in a modern equitable and fair society.

Thank you for answering my question, thank you for all you and your fellow workers do for women. I wish you all the love and strength in the world.

I'll be in touch.

:)

@TheCraicDealer

Thanks for doing this Mara.

What are your thoughts on Bernadette Smyth, recently convicted of harassing Dawn Purvis (Head of Marie Stopes in NI), being invited to speak to pupils in schools?

Excellent question TheCraicDealer. Lest those of you in England think only Ireland has anti choice propaganda spread in the schools, here in England (and Scotland) groups like SPUC are allowed to go into schools on a regular basis while tiny charities like Education for Choice (who teach sex ed from the pro choice perspective) are woefully underfunded. I wouldn't like her in my kid's school, but then again if we prevented her from going into schools, 5 more like-minded people would go in her place. I'd far prefer all schools provide comprehensive sexual health and relationship education without relying on external groups to come in

I don't really have a question, just wanted to add a voice of support for what you are doing.

I had an abortion in my very early twenties, at just past twenty weeks. I had no idea I was pregnant until a few days beforehand.

Even so the NHS couldn't get me seen quick enough and it was only because my parents, god bless them, had the money to pay for me to go privately.

There was an irish woman there who had travelled over with her husband, and they had lied to family members about what they were doing. She was absolutely terrified of her mother-in-law finding out :(

@Enormouse

How do you feel about ASN having to exist to fill the gap created by the Irish and northern Irish governments in their failure to care for their own women?

(Sorry I know I've snuck in a second question there)

Ah, we'll allow it since it's down to you I'm here in the first place! I feel . . .I don't know. I think it's horrific when women can't access the care they need because when they can't access the care via the health service, women with money have options and women without money have babies. I think all governments have a duty to ensure equal care for all citizens. Alas it's not just Ireland and N Ireland but also Poland, Malta, Isle of Man, Ecuador, etc, so so many places! It makes me mad - mad enough to keep up the work and look forward to a time when we are made obsolete

Hi Mara, Thanks for coming on. Such an important issue and coming from a family with distinct Irish heritage it resonates with me a lot.

I recently watched the wonderful film Philomena which depicts the real story of a woman who was sent to a convent and her son was later given away without her consent.

How much interaction do ASN have with the Catholic church in the present day? Are they open to at least talk about the issue at a high level?

@spingley

Hi Mara,

Thanks for doing this webchat.

I was just wondering, do you have any sense of how the public in N Ireland and RoI respond to your work?

Hi spingley

I get asked that all the time. I like to say that I'm like Marmite - people either love me or hate me.

That said, a number of our supporters are from Ireland and Northern Ireland.

Thank you for answering my sneaky second question Mara.

I remember something said by Donagh Stenson of BPAS at the amnesty briefing that made me cry. About how lucky NI women are to have bpas there to take care and comfort them when they need it most.

"We’ll take care of your women until your government does"

And that's what you and ASN do. So thank you, from the bottom of my heart. And thank you, not just from me but my DP and my DSes too

@IssyStark

Mara. Thank you for the work you are doing. I grew up in NI and well remember the fear if my withdrawal bleeding was only a day or so later than normal, and that was being on the Pill!

I too have had an abortion, in my case for anencephaly (a fatal foetal abnormality) but luckily I was living in England at the time so it was a swift and smooth process (a big thanks to all the staff at Southampton General). Related to that, can you tell me what is the current legal position for abortions for foetal abnormalities which do not directly threaten the mother's health?

Hi IssyStark,

Thank you for sharing that with us and I'm sorry you had to go through that.

In England, Scotland and Wales there's no legal limit for foetal anomalies. But for women travelling from Ireland and Northern Ireland the limit is what we call 24 weeks, but is actually 23 weeks 5 days. So for those women they often don't find out about the abnormality until the 20 week scan and then they have a matter of days to decide how they want to continue, if they want to continue and to raise £2,000. And they are sent out of the country like criminals. I am disgusted to say that I know whether you can bring foetal remains in your hand luggage for those couples who wish to have a burial at home.

Recently, Ireland declined to allow abortion even in cases of fatal foetal anomaly and Northern Ireland is currently discussing allowing it. So women and families living in England, Scotland and Wales can take as much time as they need to come to a decision that is right for them. Women and families in Ireland and Northern Ireland are up against a ticking clock. This breaks my heart.

@icemistOBE

Really admire the work your organisation does. Having grown up in Rep Ireland, I remember being horrified with the original 'X' case. What that poor girl had to go through was truly awful. And so little has changed in the Republic since. I really hope that day the choice will be there for all women.

Hi icemistOBE,

Us too!

@FissonChips

Thank you for coming to talk to us.

What made you set up the Abortion Support Network? If it's not too personal and you're comfortable sharing, can I ask if there is there a personal story behind it?

If you're asking if I've had an abortion, I have not. Although I have taken the morning-after pill twice. I answered this question earlier but it really boils down to: 'There but for the grace of God, go I'.

I hope that if I ever needed an abortion and couldn't afford it or my daughter needed an abortion but couldn't afford it, there would be someplace we could go to for help.

@Enormouse

bpas prices for Irish women and Marie Stopes fees

Just to say the prices on the web aren't always the prices ASN clients pay! We have ways . . . .

Yes that's true , those are the full prices.

As an Irish woman living in the UK - thank you for everything you do.

My question is what can Irish emigrants like me do to help improve things back home? The current law is untenable, and I've been here too long to be legally able to vote back home if a referendum to repeal the 8th was to occur.

@Mitchell50

Hi Mara, Thanks for coming on. Such an important issue and coming from a family with distinct Irish heritage it resonates with me a lot. I recently watched the wonderful film Philomena which depicts the real story of a woman who was sent to a convent and her son was later given away without her consent. How much interaction do ASN have with the Catholic church in the present day? Are they open to at least talk about the issue at a high level?

None! Some of our volunteers are Catholic, my daughter's dad is Catholic. But as we are not a campaigning organisation, that is just not something we do.

However we have great respect for our friends at Catholics for Choice.

@Enormouse

Thank you for answering my sneaky second question Mara.

I remember something said by Donagh Stenson of BPAS at the amnesty briefing that made me cry. About how lucky NI women are to have bpas there to take care and comfort them when they need it most.

"We?ll take care of your women until your government does"

And that's what you and ASN do. So thank you, from the bottom of my heart. And thank you, not just from me but my DP and my DSes too

Stop saying thank you! Women like you (and chaps like DP and future chaps like DSes) are why we do this. xxxxx

@TriJo

As an Irish woman living in the UK - thank you for everything you do.

My question is what can Irish emigrants like me do to help improve things back home? The current law is untenable, and I've been here too long to be legally able to vote back home if a referendum to repeal the 8th was to occur.

Hi TriJo,

As an American who can vote in two countries, I think it is ridiculous that Irish emigrants can't vote at home!

But any help to the abortion law here in England is a help for women travelling here to access abortion. So please make sure you support Abortion Rights UK and write to your local MP any time that they put forward any restrictions on access to abortion.

I would just like to add to Mara's statement about fatal foetal abnormality if that is ok.
In my experience the diagnosis of fatal foetal abnormality was made at the 20 week scan although I had to be sent to a specialist unit for confirmation, that appointment was 11 days after my 20 week scan. Then at that appointment it was recommended that we return for another scan. 10 days later. It was only at that point, 3 weeks after the diagnosis of fatal foetal abnormality, that it was 'officially' confirmed.

The point that I'm trying to make is that in many cases there is no rush to officially diagnose a fatal foetal abnormality because the doctor's hands are tied as to what they can do anyway. Also, there is no information whatsoever available from doctors if you are facing a fatal foetal abnormality diagnosis about your options, no fault of the doctors, but it is because the law prohibits them from even talking about termination of pregnancy. So many women don't even know that they have the option of travelling to England.

Thanks for answering my question Mara. I'm really shocked by the last line ('And last May the High Court reaffirmed that women from NI can’t access abortions on the NHS, even if they travel to England.') - I realise this is probably naive of me!

What's the legal mechanism for this? Are NI women specifically barred from having abortions on the NHS on the mainland, or are all NI people barred from accessing NHS services outside Ulster?

What does public opinion in Northern Ireland say - do you know whether a big majority there are opposed to abortion?