Live webchat with Amnesty International Tuesday 4th Feb, 11-12pm

[KatieMumsnet]

Following the leaking of an Amnesty International policy document 'Decriminalisation of Sex Work: Policy Background', which argues that men who buy sex are ‘exercising their autonomy’ and should be allowed to do so ‘free from government interference’ there has been considerable discussion on the site and requests for a webchat.

Today, Kate Allen, Director of Amnesty International UK will be here between 11-12pm to answer your questions.

Please do join us live on Tuesday or ask your question on this thread in advance. Just a quick reminder that it’s one question per person; take a look at our webchat guidelines, here.

Best

MNHQ

I'm rather confused as to how the Swedish model might not translate globally, but decriminalisation of punters will?

Surely in the less westernised countries, where poverty is much worse and the power dynamics between women and men, much more unequal your proposals will be disastrous.

I would imagine a lot of those women aren't 'happy hookers', just absolutely desperate.

If you state something as a need it creates an entitlement to it. Do you think men are entitled to sex?

Please don't equate consensual lesbian sex with coercive commercial sexual exploitation. Just don't.

@Beachcomber

Hello Kate Allen and welcome to Mumsnet.

Does Amnesty International deny that the institution of prostitution, is, and always has been, an overwhelmingly gendered phenomenon, which, additionally, takes place within a global context of male dominated society in which girls and women have historically (and are currently) subsequently awarded lower; status, degree of freedom, opportunity and agency with regards to their fundamental human rights and bodily integrity, compared to that of boys and men, and that therefore to talk of the 'human right' to buy sex, and the 'human right' to sell sex, is, in reality, to talk of the human right for men to buy and sell sexual access to women?

If this is your position, how do you reconcile the above with presenting yourselves as an organisation that has in the past declared itself as concerned with the human rights of all humans regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, etc, or do you consider women to be less human than men, particularly poor women, women of colour, indigenous women, young women, homeless women and women who are disadvantaged by systematic structural oppression manifestations and oppressive social constructs such as class, single motherhood, domestic violence, the feminization of poverty and rape culture?

If you do not answer this question, I will assume that the answer is yes.

Thank you.

Hi Beachcomber,

Amnesty would say that prostitution takes place in a very imperfect world in which women and girls have far too few choices. Our consultation is about the best way to protect those whose restricted choices have left them working in the sex industry, so that they are not ignored by the authorities and their human rights are able to be protected.

You raised an interesting question about whether sex work contains a broader harm to society, in that it objectifies women. Again, this is something that we will be considering as we decide our policy.

Kate do you consider lesbian "consensual sexual relations" to be similar to paid for sex (which is overwhelmingly men paying to penetrate girls and women)?

It seems from your above reply that you do. You consider both to be "consensual sexual relations" with no other qualifier.

oh and please can you explain the weirdly non-gendered wording of what is an inescapably gendered issue kate

and if you have a minute it would still be nice to know if AUK would support a national sex service and what constitutes a sexual need and when it might be something you have to go private for

Does Amnesty take the stance that the majority of women in prostitution around the world would choose to be there if there were no food/violence/financial coercion? It must to not consider it abuse then?

@SabrinaMulhollandJjones

"Those representing sex workers" - you mean pimps?

No. I mean those working as sex workers. This is difficult. Across the globe Amnesty is able to talk to sex workers directly and we are engaged in this at the moment. Here in the UK we're finalising our approach as we speak.

i.e if it were not for the fact that I was being paid, I would not have engaged in sexual relations with nine out of the ten men that paid for my services.
Is consent that is paid for, truly consent?

Belle that's a brilliant question.

'Our consultation is about the best way to protect those whose restricted choices have left them working in the sex industry, so that they are not ignored by the authorities and their human rights are able to be protected.'

What led you to the conclusion the best way was this?

What prevented you from tackling those authorities?

yes Phyllis - disability is used to justify the unjustifiable
As a disabled woman I find that incredibly offensive

Thank you for answering my question - does the best way to protect these girls and women include exit strategies for them and protecting them from pimps and the grooming that pimps do of young vulnerable girls, by, for example, advising that pimping (indoors or outdoors) be illegal?

I totally understand how decriminalising sex workers might improve their situation. I am all for it.

I totally don't understand how decriminalising punters would improve sex workers' situations.

It reinforces and strengthens the power imbalance that already exists, which can only be detrimental for those sex workers who have not made a positive choice for their job, but are coerced to be a prostitute (e.g. by poverty or pimp) and don't think they have any other option but to be a prostitute.

@PlentyOfPubeGardens

If the right to buy sex is some sort of male human right, what happens if there are not enough 'willing' prostitutes to go round? Who will be prostituted to ensure this human right is met for all men people?

Hi PlentyOfPubeGardens,

Amnesty isn't saying that there is a right to buy sex. What we're saying is that there are many people, women and men, involved in sex work. In many parts of the world, that brings them into huge danger from clients, pimps, police, and justice systems and we need to work as Amnesty to find the best way to protect their human rights. That is why we are consulting on our policy at the moment, to find the best way of doing that.

Why is prostitution taking place in an imperfect context different from slavery taking place in an imperfect context, sale of blood and organs, paid surrogacy, sale of children?
Or are you going to consider campaigning for those to be legalized worldwide as well?

"Our consultation is about the best way to protect those whose restricted choices have left them working in the sex industry, so that they are not ignored by the authorities and their human rights are able to be protected."

This just does not ring true. The proposed policy focuses is clearly written from the idealisation of consent from the women and the "right" of women, sorry "people", to sell sex and men, sorry "people" to buy it. The proposed policy does not address harm reduction, the difference between decriminalisation and legalisation nor the huge body of research available on the harm reduction aspects of various approaches, including in particular the Swedish model. It reads like a liberal / libertarian defence of the commercialisation of sex.

Actually, I'm going to take that 'thank you' back as you didn't answer my question, both parts of which I purposely formulated as a 'yes or no' question to make it easy.

When you discuss the "human need" for sex.. are you considering the huge health risks the women are undertaking in providing sex to these men?

Just to answer a question from twitter

'Would be really interested to know if Amnesty believes that consent can be bought?'

I guess at the heart of this question is 'does a sex worker have a choice?' I agree that in an imperfect world many women end up in sex work as an economic last resort, as Amnesty, we're not judging and are open to the thought that some others may have chosen this freely. Our consultation is now about the best way to protect the human rights of those who for whatever reason are sex workers.

and maybe the death penalty too

if we could just make people a bit more comfortable before or during their executions, you know, harm reduction, your new thing

you should probably just stop being Amnesty entirely

This discussion is so heternormative and cis-sexist.

"Amnesty isn't saying that there is a right to buy sex."

AI is saying that!

"As noted within Amnesty International’s policy on sex work, the organization is opposed to criminalization of all activities related to the purchase and sale of sex. Sexual desire and activity are a fundamental human need. To criminalize those who are unable or unwilling to fulfill that need through more traditionally recognized means and thus purchase sex, may amount to a violation of the right to privacy and undermine the rights to free expression and health"

It is, son. But if you stop posting you could improve it greatly.

Did you not read the many posts from people who not heterosexual, who are offended by Amnesty?

Good point Vegetarians, when I exited after six months in the 'industry', I had chlamydia and genital warts. Thankfully, I was not impacted by these over the longer term but potentially, I could have been.

I'd really appreciate it if you would answer my question about the age of consent in various countries? If the age of consent and holding a "saturday job" happen to be 14, will Amnesty international be supporting the rights of men to buy 14 year olds?