Live webchat with Amnesty International Tuesday 4th Feb, 11-12pm

[KatieMumsnet]

Following the leaking of an Amnesty International policy document 'Decriminalisation of Sex Work: Policy Background', which argues that men who buy sex are ‘exercising their autonomy’ and should be allowed to do so ‘free from government interference’ there has been considerable discussion on the site and requests for a webchat.

Today, Kate Allen, Director of Amnesty International UK will be here between 11-12pm to answer your questions.

Please do join us live on Tuesday or ask your question on this thread in advance. Just a quick reminder that it’s one question per person; take a look at our webchat guidelines, here.

Best

MNHQ

Seems to me that AI stance is that rape is not a crime if women are poor and women are not entitled to state/police protection.

Yes, mogara

Thanks for your time Kate :)

Yes, personally I would welcome you coming back Kate for a further web-chat as the consultation continues.
I hope the policy can be substantially improved (and changed ?) from how it reads at present

I'd be very happy to come back if that would be something people would find useful.

I wouldn't find it particularly useful. Not sure about everyone else.

But how do you know that a person is consenting?

I'd be very happy to come back if that would be something people would find useful.

I'd be happy if you took the time to read and honestly answer the questions rather than give politicians non-answers.

Based on the popularity of Punternet, most of them don't seem to mind the term.

" and it is from this perspective that we are consulting, whether you support that view or not."

oooooo that put me in my place, didn't it

It is a sorry state of affairs that AI seems to feel the need to protect the prostitute more from criminal justice systems rather than from the violence and lack of consent they experience from pimps and punters. To base a whole policy to get round the existence of corrupt criminal justice systems, rather than the oppression and violence in prostitution itself is beyond ridiculous.

There is NEVER consent in rape.

Rhinoceer, your comment is utterly ignorant. It is also victim blaming and rape apology.

If someone holds a gun to your head and says they will shoot you if you do not consent to sex and you consent, there is presence of consent. However the consent is not considered valid (in sexual offence legislation) because you have been coerced.

Payment is a form of coercion and the concept of 'consent' is highly problematic.

www.amnesty.org.uk/global-policy-consultation-sex-work#.UvDbGhB_u1W for any current Amnesty members, that's how to fiddle around and beg to take part in the consultation.

Dusk what a passive aggressive response. And not true either.

I realise the discussion is over now, but I wonder how KateAllen feels, as a woman, about aligning herself with the likes of men like Rhinoceer

Has everyone here seen this petition? It was linked to on one of the other threads.

change.org petition

Creeping I agree. It's quite shocking that AI are bringing this policy down to the lowest common denominator - the policy that accommodates the worst law enforcement will be applied to all. Doesn't seem consistent with AI's approach on other issues.

Laughing at rhinoceer's indignant stance against the term 'punter'.

Best get on those misogynistic arsewipes at "punter" net then, love. They've named their website all wrong.

Beachcomber in your example with the gun that would also be rape.

Thank you for answering my question Kate. I desperately want to stay a part of Amnesty – for me it’s indisputably been a force for good. However, the proposal itself and the language in which it has been written has made me question whether I can really be in sympathy with an organisation that describes the multiple deprivations which can lead to women in some of the countries in which you work being coerced into sex work as an ‘imperfect context’. I don’t want to make up my mind until I receive the consultation documents, and then see what AIUK decides, but at the moment I can’t help feeling I’d be better off supporting an organisation which explicitly campaigns for women’s rights, rather than one which may end up contributing towards the normalisation of prostitution and the abuse, exploitation and misery that that will inevitably result in. Shouldn’t Amnesty be trying to change the world, rather than accepting it as it is? We don’t accept that torture/the death penalty/homophobia are inevitable, we say that they’re intolerable and we fight against them.
Thank you anyway and it’s great to hear that the Nordic model and other options are still up for discussion at least. I wish you well with the consultation and sincerely hope that you will take the very real concerns of members into account.

Flora, sorry if you think my being a bit flippant is not constructive, but I am quite pissed off.
What I am getting at is pretty much the point you made (better and sensibly) here:

"I agree. It's quite shocking that AI are bringing this policy down to the lowest common denominator - the policy that accommodates the worst law enforcement will be applied to all. Doesn't seem consistent with AI's approach on other issues."

What KAte actually said was that this is the approach they are taking - starting from the basis that women need to be protected primarily from law enforcement - THE END, whether I like it or not, not subject to discussion, which I think is begging an unacceptably big and central question

Dusk - no, I meant her response, not yours. God, sorry that didn't come across right!! I totally agree with you.

ok, sorry!

I couldn't get on for the web chat but I'm pretty stunned by this. Huge, huge, huge PR fail for Amnesty.

I'm utterly bemused by this statement. If what the sex worker does is not criminal but what the punter does is, the sex worker has to find ways to protect the punter otherwise they too are bought into the police and criminal justice system

That seems to suggest that the person paying for sex is the vulnerable one, rather than the person who is selling their body because they feel they have no other resources of value.

No more donations coming from me either.

Beachcomber in your example with the gun that would also be rape.

Yes it would.

How about if I dangle smack (or the money to buy it) in front of you when you are desperate for a fix? How about if a dangle crack (or the money to buy it) in front of you when your abusive partner is desperate for a fix? How about if I dangle the money in front of you you need to pay your rent and prevent you and your children from becoming homeless? Do see where I'm going with this....