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Live Webchat with EastEnders Producer, Bryan Kirkwood. Friday 21st January at Midday

297 replies

RachelMumsnet · 19/01/2011 12:55

Following recent debates on the EastEnders' storyline, and our meeting with BBC executives and two mumsnetters to discuss the baby snatch story, we're delighted Executive Producer of EastEnders, Bryan Kirkwood is joining us to answer your questions this Friday (21st January) between 12 and 1pm. If you're unable to join us at that time, please post your questions to Bryan on this thread.

OP posts:
IAmReallyFabNow · 20/01/2011 19:53

Kat did notice it wasn't her baby but no one listened.

Dozer · 20/01/2011 21:16

What is your justification for the baby-snatch aspect of the cot-death story? Will you apologise for it?

Why have so many female characters in Eastenders, particularly those who have experinced sexual abuse and / or fertility issues / abortion, been presented as mentally unhinged / dangerous / manipulative/ violent? (examples: Ronnie, Stacey, Jane, Kat, Janine)

What proportion of your writers are women/parents?

Did you or any of the writers of the babysnatch storyline on Eastenders have anything to do with the story on Hollyoaks about a woman whose IVF was unsuccessful stealing a baby?

Caromary · 20/01/2011 22:08

As a bereaved parent who complained to the BBC, I found the generic response that came back both patronising and disingenuous. According to the FSID, they were NOT consulted about the baby swap story line and, as we have all pointed out, it is this that is the offensive content. The portrayal of a baby's death and the subsequent grief is not at issue but all the potential real drama has been undone by such a cynical plot. Even if this is supposed to be part of Ronnie's character, though I doubt the validity of that, there has been a clear inference drawn that a baby whose mother dies might well resort to stealing another baby. This is a common and stereotypical portrayal of a grieving mother- ie. deranged and dangerous.
This story has therefore been totally irresponsible and has done a lot of harm to women in this position- a lot of harm. However, the BBC appears too arrogant to apologise and admit that this story has been a terrible error of judgment at the expense of a group whose voice is rarely heard. I doubt that such an appalling stereotype would be put forward in relation to, for example, gay or black groups in our society.
I think that a printed rider should go out after every episode to say that this is not the typical action of a bereaved mother. The action line number that went out is only a reinforcement that these women are unwell rather than a group for whom an apology is appropriate.
I expected a personal, not a generic, response to such a serious issue as this and will never watch Eastenders again.

eyeofhorus · 20/01/2011 22:30

... what storylines are you planning to introduce to win back fans who may have been lost along the way because of bad execution of a real issue and what have you learnt from this experience?

loftyjen · 20/01/2011 22:39

I really wish there was a "like" button for some of these comments (especially supergreenuk & deemented).

As a new mum and a paediatric A&E nurse who has had to deal in a professional capacity with sudden infant deaths, I am horrified at the lack of understanding shown by the Eastenders team.

Yeah, yeah, you have to keep other storylines going too but there was so much that could have been shown that would be dramatic while truthful (eg, the involvement the police have in every case as the police act on behalf of the coroner collecting evidence in the immediate aftermath as well as offering support to the family), as well as undermining the healthcare professionals who could now be assumed to not even notice/check basic details to confirm the dead infant is their baby.

If drama was really required, surely finding Ronnie holding her (dead) baby in the same room as Kat's baby thus bringing in the story of Ronnies loss and her feelings as well as Kat feeling guilty about her babies continued health/development - something which could have potentially pulled them closer or pushed them further apart.

A helpline number at the end of a programme doesn't give the team carte blanche to do what they want.

HereMeRoar · 20/01/2011 22:56

Do you have children yourself?

I have other questions, but need to collate my thoughts first to post coherently.

WotzNotNot · 20/01/2011 23:13

Dear Bryan
1> What were your goals?
2> Are you going on a Sabbatical somewhere hot, to mull this over, leaving upset and turmoil like and unmade bed behind?
3> Is it possible that a reasonably level headed person will step in for you in your absence?
4> I have had a quick look and there is black taxi waiting outside for you.

AngeChica · 21/01/2011 09:54

I would like to ask: On the original TV thread I posted a rather trite message about how babies and children in EE are conspicuous by their constant absence. I understand the legal aspects of using child actors etc. but at least Corrie places kids in a warmer situation in the heart of a family more often and depicts them s having thoughts and feelings rather than being inconvenient accessories that get locked away in a nursery 99% of the day.

Also why in recent years are there so many appalling role models for young women in a soap with a huge teen following. I understand you need to constantly create ratings grabbing storylines but how about some smart, succesful young women for once?

thefirstMrsDeVere · 21/01/2011 10:28

I have to go an get DS2 when this is starting but cannot wait to have a look when I get back.

I just want to say - we are so angry and so upset because this MATTERS to us. We do have lives, we can switch off and we do know its 'just a soap', we are also able to 'get a grip'. I thought I would put that in to save anyone the effort if they thought they needed to point these things out to us.

HereMeRoar · 21/01/2011 10:57

What are the BBC's managerial procedures for ensuring programmes do not cause undue offence?

How does the BBC learn from experiences when they receive high numbers of complaints to ensure these situations do not happen again?

Why has no-one said sorry for the offence caused and accepted that the storyline is offensive to many (hence the large number of complaints)? Whill you acknowledge this now and apologise for the offence caused?

Do you accept that a mother would never abandon her baby who she has just found dead and steal someone else's (even accidentally)?

Why is it OK to excuse this because the character has endured multiple traumas? Another character has even called her postnatal and mental, yet she has no diagnosed mental illness, and does not behave in a way consistent with any diagnosable mental illness either. Up to now she has been portrayed as a strong successful, if somewhat hard, woman.

Why did your initial response to complaints imply that FSID had been involved as a justification for running the storyline, so much so that they had to put out a statement clarifying that they were not involved in the controversial (swap) element?

Oh and welcome to Mumsnet Smile.

prettyfly1 · 21/01/2011 11:13

Well done for braving the bear pit!

I have watched and loved EE since my early teens and to be fair during that time the show has tackled some pretty tough issues and not always been cheery, but since this latest one I have not watched. I had been going off it a bit anyway but now I just cant bring myself to watch the misery unfold.

Do you think there is any way you could start to bring back some humour and humanity to the show? Patrick and Jim used to make me cry laughing with their antics and with actors like shane and jessie, who do comedy really well, it seems a shame that you feel the need to keep the show such a dirge.

FooffyShmoofer · 21/01/2011 11:15

I would like to support what has been said so far especially Dee and Heremeroar.

I would also like to put forward-

I'm sure if we suspend belief enough to think that not one EE viewer will believe that a bereaved Mother will snatch a baby before her own child is even cold, the fact is a seed of doubt has been planted.

That because of the surprising enormity of Eastenders (considering how utterly joyless it is) there will now always be the this storyline fresh in the minds of those who hold their breath at the sight of a bereaved Mother with, or in the proximity of another woman's child.Just for a milisecond wondering would she be capable of making a dash with baby tucked under her arm.

In my humble opinion that is harmful enough.
Surely you can't deny that?

Apologies for the rambling nature.

RebeccaMumsnet · 21/01/2011 12:00

Many thanks to Bryan Kirkwood for taking the time out of his schedule to join us today. Bryan's with us until one and aims answer as many of your questions as possible in the hour. Welcome to Mumsnet, Bryan

deemented · 21/01/2011 12:00

...

BryanKirkwood · 21/01/2011 12:01

Thanks, Rebecca. I?m Bryan Kirkwood, Executive Producer of EastEnders and I?m in charge of everything you see on screen, from storylines, scripts, casting decisions, and budget. I appreciate you all taking the time to chat with me this afternoon and will endeavour to get through as many questions as possible as I understand this is an emotional storyline that has affected many viewers in different ways.

deemented · 21/01/2011 12:02

Thank you for taking the time to be here. I for one, and very interested in what you have to say.

sevendwarves · 21/01/2011 12:03

How do you plan to win back viewers who have stopped watching due to the baby swap storyline?

BryanKirkwood · 21/01/2011 12:03

Shabbapinkfrog there are many reasons behind this storyline and EastEnders has a long history of tackling difficult and emotional issues in its storylines. We never try to suggest our characters are representative of all people in the given situation ? whether it be older storylines such as Arthur Fowler's breakdown or more recently the relationship between Christian and Syed. The cot death part of this story was fully researched, while the reaction of Ronnie is one moment following a very difficult few years personal to her.

CazandBelle · 21/01/2011 12:04

Yes thank you for coming. I'm also interested, 2 pages of questions to get you started. You'll find deemented's questions cover everything I would ask.

CoffeeDodger · 21/01/2011 12:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

fatpantsandgladrags · 21/01/2011 12:05

Deemented has pretty much covered it, I think.

I just wondered whether you think the swap storyline is actually a realistic portrayal of a grieving mother?

travellingwilbury · 21/01/2011 12:06

You say that you are not suggesting this a representatation of how all people in this situation but I am yet to hear of anybody reacting in this way .

BryanKirkwood · 21/01/2011 12:07

@deemented

Right. I have a few points i'd like to riase. Forgive me if they don't seem to be in order, i was thnking of them and going off on tangents.

I'd be very interested to know how this could have ever been thought of as a feasable storyline? Was the death of a baby not ratings worthy enough for you? Why would anyone think 'Oh i know, when she finds her childs cold, lifeless body, instead of howling imhumanely, trying CPR and dialing 999, all the while screaming for her baby, we'll have her mutter 'don't do this to me' and take baby outside and then swap it with her friends newborn, then carry on pretending nothings happened' Why was this not shot down in flames during the planning stage?

Have you any idea, Mr. Kirkwood, of the disservice that this soryline has done to bereaved parents? We are stigmatised enough, people think our loss is catching, people ignore us, people are incedibly insensitive - and now, thanks to your storyline, people will also think that we want to steal their babies. I know it's a storyline, You know it's a storyline, but there are many many peope out there that do think that this is real, that it could happen. Do you remember when Dierdre Barlow was imprisoned in Coronation Street? The 'Free The Weatherfield One' campaign was set up - showing that some people cannot distinguish between a soap and real life events. Life as a bereaved parent is already horrendously difficult - now it has become even more so.

To be honest, i've been very very dissapointed with Eastenders and the BBC's response to our complaints. To hide behind the 'We sought advice from FSID' excuse was nothing short of cowardly and has done a great disservice to FSID - it implied that you had consulted them on the swap part of the storyline, when in fact, you hadn't, had you? Yet you were happy to let people think you had. You knew full well that people were NOT complaining at the showing of a cot death, but at the following baby swap storyline, yet you still sought to pacify the people complaining with a pathetic, inadequate respone that didn't address their complaints at all. What do you have to say to this?

I'd like to know just how stupid Bryan Kirkwood thinks we, the Eastenders viewers, are? The BBC said 'It's not real' when they couldn't hide behind FSID anymore - well if that's the case, why have a tag on the end of the programme which says 'If you have been affected by this programme, please ring this number'? What did the operators on the line say - 'oh get over yourselves, it's not real you know'? No? I didn't think they would.

Why do you think it is enough to say that Ronnies past would lead her character to decide to swap her dead child for her friends live one? Or is it the fact that she has been abused and had other losses in her life enough of a reason - i certainly don't think so. There are many bereaved parents out there that have had horrendous things happen to them before the death of their child - i can't think of a single case where one of them has done what Ronnie did. I'd like to know where you did your research that showed that this could happen? Kat is also a 'damaged' woman, and a bereaved parent, or so she thinks, but she hasn't stolen another womans baby - why not?

You said that you have cut this storyline short - that it had been due to run til Christmas, if not longer - how exactly was that supposed to happen, given that Samantha Womack was leaving in May anyway? Or did you think you would spin us that and think we'd believe it?

You say there is to be a 'Warm and Tender' conclusion to this storyline. How exactly is that supposed to happen? One baby is dead, and buried under another babys name. The baby that it has been swapped for is with a mother who, you'd like to have us believe, is insane with grief, and there is a family grieving for a baby who isn't really dead. How exactly can this have a 'Warm and Tender' conclusion?

I'd be very interested in your response to these points, Mr Kirkwood.

Deemented I take on board your comments but I would say Ronnie?s reaction to James' death is personal to that character and in total contrast to the reaction of Kat when she believes Tommy has passed away, as mentioned by RosieandGin and Shabbapinkfrog. As you say we have talked about our work with the FSID but we have only said this with reference to the cot death part of the story and we haven?t suggested they advised into the swap part. I apologise if that?s the impression you got but in their interviews I know Joyce Epstein has also gone on record to say this.

hana21 · 21/01/2011 12:07

I am 25 years old according to my mum i have been eastenders mad all my life, she was pregnant when the programme started and apparently i knew as soon as the tune came on from birth lol !! This is due to the fact that my mum loved (loves) eastenders but my mum also is a parent that lost a child. This happened to her 30 years ago but despite the time frame nothing ever eases the pain. I heard of the storyline and having 2 young children myself took the action not to watch the show. Eastenders xmas specials are the highlight of the festive tv in our house , but not this year eastenders was no where to be seen. I still havent watched the programme since before xmas and like many im very sad to have the programme out of my life! That sounds so stupid but it is a very big constant in my life. I can relate to the cot birth story and have no problem with that but the swapping of babies is disgraceful, i mean has this ever happened ???? Babies can be revived after quite some time and any mother whatever cirmstances would seek help NOT swap the baby and as for Whitneys new storyline just mental. The main problem i had is that it was xmas time this is when any family grieves a loss the most, my mum still does after 30 years and it even upset her to see it . I loved sam womack but i feel playing Ronnie has done nothing for her not through any lack of acting ability but by being surrounded by poor writers, do you think this will have a bad impact on her career, will eastenders take the blame for that ?

I think you would be better off us writing for you then your so called professional writters.

WotzNotNot · 21/01/2011 12:10

Deemented - I hope yours is responded to. If not now, possibly at a later stage, as I think it deserves more than a short webchat. It certainly sums up what I would have like to have asked myself, if I had composure.

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