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How the other half lives, what and when you learned

999 replies

tomorrowalready · 23/07/2021 19:36

Reflecting from another thread made me realise it was not until my 20s I found out some people expected to have a private bathroom. I went to university then and shared with another mature student who had been married, divorced and said she found having to share a bathroom with unrelated people unpleasant. I had always taken it for granted as had live in jobs and rented bedsits before. She was a lovely person and also the first person I knew who had a glass of wine every evening and she introduced me to many new things - cooking with garlic, sherry, owning and using a car for shopping for example.

So what did you take for granted that surprised other people you met?

OP posts:
ZednotZee · 28/07/2021 18:47

a class of people intermediate between the classes of higher and lower social rank or standing; the social, economic, cultural class, having approximately average status, income, education, tastes, and the like.

Far be it from me to argue with the actual dictionary...
But it doesn't appear to be quite so settled a subject here on MN does it? Where there is at least one thread every week where a certain contingent can be found getting their John Lewis knickers in a twist Wink

I must admit to be highly amused by this nonsense. Its made a car journey considerably more entertaining!

Oh I see, car journey. Right you are.

On the subject of scousers, I have worked with many a scouse surgeoun/consultant who would give you short shrift at being marked as middle class.

ZednotZee · 28/07/2021 18:51

Wait till they get pissed and the mask slips and they sound plastic scouse.

They already do sound somewhat plastic scouse.
And none of them are old enough to drink.

RedToothBrush · 28/07/2021 20:28

@ZednotZee

a class of people intermediate between the classes of higher and lower social rank or standing; the social, economic, cultural class, having approximately average status, income, education, tastes, and the like.

Far be it from me to argue with the actual dictionary...
But it doesn't appear to be quite so settled a subject here on MN does it? Where there is at least one thread every week where a certain contingent can be found getting their John Lewis knickers in a twist Wink

I must admit to be highly amused by this nonsense. Its made a car journey considerably more entertaining!

Oh I see, car journey. Right you are.

On the subject of scousers, I have worked with many a scouse surgeoun/consultant who would give you short shrift at being marked as middle class.

Yeah cos there is reverse snobbery about it too.

I've always been singled out as definitely not being wc. I don't see the point in tried to argue to the contrary - mainly because I'd be on a hiding to nothing with that one. Nor be shamed about being mc (which is somewhat common too)

There is a fashion by many northern mc to make out they arent which is hilarious at times.

ZednotZee · 28/07/2021 20:49

I've always been singled out as definitely not being wc. I don't see the point in tried to argue to the contrary

Oh give over and go and have a nice evening without navel gazing your supposed class.

Chin, chin Grin

OhWhyNot · 28/07/2021 21:26

My family homes (parents separate not I had two homes) and my friends houses always smelt of gravy, chips, curry or cleaning products

I met some mc friends at middle school their houses always smelt of garlic, potpourri or incense

I remember thinking this was quite a stark difference

Bread and tea wasn’t served with tea/dinner

Conversations around the dinner table we had dinner on a stool while watching tv apart from Sunday dinner (full roast at 1pm)

tomorrowalready · 28/07/2021 22:01

I noticed when Matt Hancock was still Health Secretary and was featured on the Radio 4 programme about people's backgrounds that he does have a slight Cheshire burr to his voice. His family's middle class credentials were well established in that programme as also his secondary education at a now private former grammar school in Chester. I recognised it because (somewhat like NotZeeZed), I originate from near Chester but I apparantly still have a strong accent despite 40 years away. For the record, very working class, from the other side of the river. That is as always commented upon by people I meet for the first time. I of course don't think I have an accent, my sister thinks I have a Brummie accent. I should think middle class parents would be more concerned with ennunciation, wide vocabulary and correct grammar as explicit concern about accent is seen as snobbish.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 29/07/2021 09:54

@ZednotZee

I've always been singled out as definitely not being wc. I don't see the point in tried to argue to the contrary

Oh give over and go and have a nice evening without navel gazing your supposed class.

Chin, chin Grin

Yes Ma Lady.
Ddot · 29/07/2021 10:27

Common as muck me is.

Sanguinesuzy · 29/07/2021 10:45

Mum and dad both lived on council estates in south yorks, mining villages. Dad in particular did well and went to grammar school, then on to uni in York (this was late 40s). Ended up a head teacher so we had a pretty comfortable middle class life in comparison to some of their siblings who never to managed to escape that environment. I always felt awkward visiting them, on the other hand mum used to dress up to the nines, almost as if to prove a point. Massive coal fire, air full of cig smoke, smell of chips, and lots of them living on top of each other, in and out of the house, neighbours popping round. Great community spirit. Funnily enough as miners they weren't paid too badly, they were first to buy a vhs video recorder which my dad was a bit Shock at !

Marriedatfirstyear · 29/07/2021 12:28

@HaveringWavering

It's all relative I guess. Our 4 bed family home was bought by a couple for their daughter. She was going to University in Oxford and they wanted her to have her own space. The house was £420.000 and 5 of us had lived there. Apparently other rooms were for when parents and friends came to visit. My mum had to explain they had another house as I'd wondered where the parents would live. I'd never heard of second/holiday homes etc. That was shocking as to afford our house, everyone worked and it was a doer-upper over many years. To top it all off, they were going to rip out the kitchen and bathroom for new ones.

@Marriedatfirstyear are you sure it was Oxford and not Oxford Brookes? Oxford colleges usually want students (first year at least) to live in college as it's part of the community ethos.Or was she an overseas postgrad? I

No idea, didn't ask the ins and outs.
BeenAsFarAsMercyAndGrand · 29/07/2021 12:30

Also, you didn't say it was Oxford Uni in your post - the person who responded has read something you didn't write.

BeenAsFarAsMercyAndGrand · 29/07/2021 12:33

then on to uni in York (this was late 40s)

There was no university in York in the 40s?

York Uni was founded in the 60s, and York St John became a university in the 00s.

DeathByWalkies · 29/07/2021 13:00

@BeenAsFarAsMercyAndGrand

then on to uni in York (this was late 40s)

There was no university in York in the 40s?

York Uni was founded in the 60s, and York St John became a university in the 00s.

I imagine what the PP is referring to is teacher training college - they were separate in those days but have all since merged into universities
HaveringWavering · 29/07/2021 13:11

@BeenAsFarAsMercyAndGrand you have a weirdly pedantic interest in universities!

BeenAsFarAsMercyAndGrand · 29/07/2021 13:58

[quote HaveringWavering]@BeenAsFarAsMercyAndGrand you have a weirdly pedantic interest in universities![/quote]
Not really - I lived in York for many years, so happen to know about the universities there!

BeenAsFarAsMercyAndGrand · 29/07/2021 13:59

I wouldn't have the first clue when the universities in e.g. Birmingham were founded.

BeenAsFarAsMercyAndGrand · 29/07/2021 14:00

I imagine what the PP is referring to is teacher training college - they were separate in those days but have all since merged into universities

That would make sense. YSJ probably was a teacher training college.

Sanguinesuzy · 29/07/2021 16:11

Yes you're right it was the teacher training college. York, Ripon and St John. Dad died in 2012. Just after we had a letter off the 'old boys club' for previous students in the 40's-50's. Every few years they would have a get together but 2012 was the last year because most of the 'old boys' had died or were very frail Sad. Anyway wasn't trying to mislead Confused.

HaveringWavering · 29/07/2021 16:27

@BeenAsFarAsMercyAndGrand

I wouldn't have the first clue when the universities in e.g. Birmingham were founded.
Yes but you also made some picky comment in response to my querying a poster about Oxford University. Even though I had already mentioned the other university in Oxford. Where I used to live. Anyway, derail, as you were.
Ddot · 29/07/2021 21:38

As a child we were poor but most people I knew were in the same boat. I do remember one boy who had tatty clothes his father was unemployed mainly due to being a one parent family, mother had died. He told me he brushed his teeth with salt, couldnt afford paste, I was shocked. He joined the army when he was 17

Raaaaaaarr · 29/07/2021 22:00

This was not in the UK but I was the first female on either side of my family to go to uni. I was ok with this and socially it took a good year but I found a good group of friends. They came from slightly different backgrounds in that their fees were paid and they received allowances. I had to earn my own money and my parents did their best to help with fees. Every summer break I'd be working and they would not be. Even now 20 years later I work and they don't. Despite all of that I love them to bits and don't resent them for a minute. I feel happy for the lives that they have.

LepusLepus · 01/08/2021 00:08

As a child in the 60's money was tight but we weren't poor in that we went without anything - though we had to look after what we had, and if we broke something, that was it, we went without it until enough money was saved for a new one.

My mums favourite saying was 'soap and water costs nothing' which of course isn't true. But every night, to prove her point we were scrubbed and inspected to ensure no specks of dirt, imagined or otherwise remained.

At school there was a boy in my class who was - as I now now - undersized and underfed for his age. He always had a runny nose, dirty clothes and he smelled quite strongly.

Whenever we had to line up in two's, no one wanted to hold his hand, sit next to him in class, or invite him to join a game. I was one of the 'no-ones' because to the 6 year old me, he should have got washed every night then he would have had friends.

This boy lived in my street and one day news, awful news swept up the road from the top of the hill where he lived. He had run out into the road and had been hit by one of the very few cars in the street at that time. By the time he arrived at hospital, he was dead.

Suddenly everyone cared. People went to sit in his house to keep his mum company - my mum included. They took food, sent buckets of coal for a fire, had a whip round, and said out loud to everyone within earshot 'what a grand lad he'd been'. These were the same people that had whispered to each other behind their hands and over the garden fences about the state of him, but had never done anything about him, far less allow him into their homes or even give him a jam sandwich. Hypocrites.

He'd been undersized through hunger, unwashed and smelly because his mum was ill, and couldn't work, and his dad couldn't be bothered to work and took what little money that did come into the house for beer..

I remember afterwards looking at his empty chair in class and feeling what I now know to be shame. I was ashamed. I wished I had held his hand, and shared my breaktime biscuit that my mum gave me threepence a week for. I wished I had been his friend.

Derek. His name was Derek and I have thought about him often throughout my life. He taught me never to judge ever again. He taught me to care, always. He taught me a hell of a lesson at 6 years of age.

As an adult I have worked with children in school, many of whom were in his situation and worse. But this time and every time I did something about it, ranging from sorting out a breakfast from the school kitchen for a 7 year old, to, after seeing a mothers boyfriend strike her child, calling the police on him there and then, with his consequent arrest and charge, and giving evidence in court.

What have I learned? Just this - that 'Evil triumphs when good men and women do nothing'.

ZednotZee · 01/08/2021 02:18

@LepusLepus

Thank you.

RIP Derek, sweet boy.

Ddot · 01/08/2021 07:30

Wow that's sad

HaveringWavering · 01/08/2021 10:12

@Raaaaaaarr

This was not in the UK but I was the first female on either side of my family to go to uni. I was ok with this and socially it took a good year but I found a good group of friends. They came from slightly different backgrounds in that their fees were paid and they received allowances. I had to earn my own money and my parents did their best to help with fees. Every summer break I'd be working and they would not be. Even now 20 years later I work and they don't. Despite all of that I love them to bits and don't resent them for a minute. I feel happy for the lives that they have.
None of your University friends now have jobs?