Biggest cultural shock you have come across?

[hibbledobble]

What have you encountered while travelling that was your biggest cultural shock?

I'll go first: in Poland I saw families/extended families living 10+ in a 2 bedroom home. The concept of having a bedroom or even a bed to oneself is seemingly unheard of. Everyone sleeps in different beds each night, and beds are often shared. Having visitors in this set up is no problem either: everyone just rearranges. Water also came from Wells, lots of homes had no bathrooms. Ovens were these metal beasts that were plugged into the mains.

Trills - I agree, what about the caste system in India?

The uk is one of the the few countries in the world where everyone is not born equal.

Are you kidding me?? Name one where they are. That would be a shorter list.

I actually remember reading it somewhere and I did say "one of" because it's not the only one. It's not based on how wealthy a country is but the social mobility within the class system the country has. It's not about wether a person in the uk has a better life to someone living in the favelas in Brazil.

A corporate CEO whose father was a mill worker is not working class. But will they be upper class if they run a billion pound company? They wouldn't. At the higher end of the social mobility, it's not how much you have that defines you.

I wonder if you are knighted or made dame or lord whether you do become upperclass and is that the only way you can join that circle. It didn't make duchess Kate according to some people, so possibly not.

Has anyone read Bill Bryson's Notes From a Small Island?

So often that I practically know it by heart ... I just love his writing style

The intolerance for those living in slums from the Indians I worked with, I was so shocked by their attitude to the poor. Very much felt it was their fault and a life style choice, no empathy for their situation ...

Let's not be too quick to impose our own expectations on another culture, though. Many Hindus have a strong belief in karma/dharma and genuinely believe that ills in this life are the result of their deeds in the last one ... also that, in working through them, they'll be in a better position in the next life to come

It might seem a little odd to a western mind, but perhaps helps in knowing why some take the view they do

The Social Mobilityty^ and Child Poverty Commission said its study of the social background of those “running Britain” was the most detailed of its kind ever undertaken and showed that elitism was so embedded in Britain “that it could be called ‘social engineering’”.*

Just 7% of the UK public attended private school, which compares to 71% of senior judges, 62% of senior armed forces officers, 55% of Whitehall permanent secretaries and 50% of members of the House of Lords.
Yes, working class people can go to private schools. However, they would need scholarships and help with fees.

A corporate CEO whose father was a mill worker is not working class.
And how many people she/he rubs shoulders with are from their background?

www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/aug/28/elitism-in-britain-breakdown-by-profession

Paraguay: stepping out of a lovely shopping mall and met with poverty in the market.
Argentina: their nights out start at 11ish and finish 5/6 in the morning. I don't have the stamina for that!
South Korea: They think that babies are one year old when they're born. I still don't understand it.
Japan: on those crane machine games. Instead of grabbing a cute cuddly toy or something, there was a soft toy simply of a school girl crouching... but just the legs part. Tried to find a pic but couldn't find one to explain!

I expected to find cultural differences in Russia but didn't. I really like Russia. I think their people are very misunderstood.

I believe your class is these days defined by your profession and how much money you earn in the household. I don't think it's defined by your parent's status anymore.

E.g. teacher salary 30k+ =middle class. I don't think owning a property or not comes into the middle class criteria these days either.

Upper middle would be extremely well paid people like lawyers on 90k+. It think they definitely own their property and can afford a few exotic holidays a year.

Upper class would be aristocrats etc however I would opine that the super nouveaux riche no matter how crass are included in this. This is the modern idea of upper class.

quencher I'm sorry, but both me and DH are working class, with skilled working class jobs, and all 3 DS's went to private school. We prioritised education above everything else. Not because we wanted private, but we wanted the best we could do for our DC's.

We had no Bursaries or help from the school. We had a lot of very hard years, I could write a book on how to make a lb of mince last 3 days lol, (not the mythical chicken) but given the dire state of the state schools where we live, it was worth the sacrifice. All our boys are now grown and in good careers, but they never forget the hard times and appreciate what we did for them.

We could have had holidays, a better car, a bigger house, nicer clothes, etc. But, made our choice. Which, now, was the right one.

But will they be upper class if they run a billion pound company?

In the US, they would, yes. It is getting less common, I agree, but I know several wealthy executives who came from very modest backgrounds.

And I think our class system is becoming like the US. I.e. forget roots... what have YOU achieved for yourself.

It's like the Indian caste tradition to condemn someone to one class because of their family's past. Not right.

I don't think it's defined by your parent's status anymore.

I'm not so sure. Try asking Kate Middleton.

Being very obviously looked up and down by women in France. Not in an aggressive manner, just 'checked out'.
I asked a colleague why and she said 'we just aren't ashamed to show we are checking out the competition!'
Am quite self conscious there now.

The drinking culture in the U.K
The fact everything starts and end with 'a drink'.
People drinking when they're not actually thirsty can never get my head around that one.
Humour in the U.K seems to revolve around either sex or drinking or being drunk.
People airily declaring they committed awful acts because of too much drink, and people nod understandingly, this is acceptable. No one questions, 'why didn't you stop drinking when you realised you were getting tipsy'? all very odd.

In the U.S the sheer amount of obese children in every corner as soon as you step off the plane.
The food portion sizes.

In Barbados, men's name all seem to begin with 'Saint' i.e Saint john, Saint Stephen etc. Whats that all about?

Bahamas -Ridiculous portion sizes again, everything spilling over the plate.
Not a vegetable in sight, all complete stodge. apparently all the veg coming in from wherever? gets quickly bought up by the surrounding Islands.

@SenecaFalls The USA's system is very different and no where close to what the uk has.
Thanks @CheersMedea. It can only get close to the Americans (which has it technicality too) understanding if there was no monarchy. As long as you have the monarchy you will have people moving up and down between working and middle possibly upper middle but harder to break the top. Being mega rich ad elite does not give you accesses into the upper class. If it did, all the Russians billionaires in London would be on the same level as the queen and all her her royally related aristocrats.
From reading what Emma mcquiston has said before about what that circle is like, you can't just become one. Money can't buy you entry.

@ModreB you come across like inspiration. Your determination makes a mockery of people who complain about not being able to manage on £100k. However, I do know that it's all relative.
Average U.K. Wage is £27k. Average private school is £14k a year. It would t work for most people now, would it? Unless you are a two income family on that amount With one child.
I don't know how you would mange now on that amount too.

"The upper class in modern societies is the social classs* composed of the wealthiesttmembers of society, who also wield the greatest political powerr.[1] According to this view, the upper class is generally distinguished by immense wealth which is passed on from generation to generation.[2][unreliable source?e?^]* Prior to the 20th century, the nomenclature aristocracyy* was widely used. [3]
Because the upper classes of a society may no longer rule the society in which they are living, they are often referred to as the old upper classes and they are often culturally distinct from the newly rich middle classes that tend to dominate public life in modern social democracies.[citation neededed^]* According to the latter view held by the traditional upper classes, no amount of individual wealth or fame would make a person from an undistinguished background into a member of the upper class as one must be born into a family of that class and raised in a particular manner so as to understand and share upper class values, traditions, and cultural norms. The term is often used in conjunction with terms like "upper-middle classs," "middle classs," and "working classs" as part of a model of social stratificationn."
I thought this was interesting take from wiki.

I'm from NI. The thing that shocked me when I started to get into MN and read more and more threads, is just how utterly obsessed the English are with class. I was genuinely baffled by it. Still am. So much ink spilled on the subject, so many threads end up being about class.

It's not like that here, at all. Of course there are differences in class but they are less perceptible and there is no obsession. It's completely different to England.

We also have had more social mobility here, the grammar school system remained intact and many people (like my parents) came from very poor farming backgrounds but passed the 11+, went from grammar schools into university (all for free) and did very well for themselves in business or professional jobs.

The first time I visited the North of Ireland was in Summer time. Lovely place.

They call an ice cream cone a "poke" up there. Cracked me up, as we have a slightly more salacious meaning for that word!

So a question like "would you like a poke, we are going to have one now" had us in stitches.

A poke of chips!

Haven't heard that it years. I'm up North (England) and it's sometimes used for a little paper cone of something like sweets or chips.

Or lollies as my friend calls sweets.

Yes, I would argue that upper middle class (i.e. bankers, lawyers, the Middletons) is where one really wants to be- i.e. both rich and educated and where most of the globally mobile top tier that runs the show are from. Being upper class (i.e. aristocracy) often isn't always that great because a lot of the wealth isn't liquid and many of the aristocracy aren't that cash rich at all. You can't become aristocracy, but you can become UMC from relatively normal beginnings. I know several partners at magic circle law firms and senior bankers/hedge fund managers whose parents were teachers/mid tiers of civil service.

What you rarely see is real rags to riches (multi-tier, single generational social mobility) but that's very rare anywhere.

The other weird thing about class in the UK though is when people insist they are working class because their grandfather was a miner, even though their parents were doctors and they're an architect.

And I think our class system is becoming like the US. I.e. forget roots... what have YOU achieved for yourself

That sounds reasonable to me. However there are plenty that disagree. I am an educated professional, however what I didn't mention above was that my dad, and pretty much all my male relatives older than me, were miners. Female relatives were SAHMs, barmaids, shop assistants, cleaners, childminders. We all have northern accents.

Plenty would use that argument to say that I will never be any other than working class. In reality I do not care, I just think it is interesting that some argue that there is still such a strong class divide.

The other weird thing about class in the UK though is when people insist they are working class because their grandfather was a miner, even though their parents were doctors and they're an architect

A lot of my colleagues DCs 20 something DCs would fall into the above category. We work in an extremely niche scientific field where a few of us have typical working class northern backgrounds and have started at an entry level fairly unskilled level but a few have, over the years become experienced and educated to a level where they are world wide experts in their field, present at international conferences, publish papers, earn reasonably high wages, live in nice middle class areas.

Their DCs have gone to Russell Group univerisities and are now professionals working in engineering (the clean deskbound variety, not the build an oil refinery from scratch type), banking or similar professions.

I'm from NI. The thing that shocked me when I started to get into MN and read more and more threads, is just how utterly obsessed the English are with class. I was genuinely baffled by it

Me too. And especially all the really subtle things that are pronounced to be class related - what you call rooms in your house, pieces of furniture, mealtimes, what you call your parents etc. It's utterly baffling to an outsider and yet it's assumed that everyone knows these things and that you're being deliberately obtuse if you don't get it.

Another mumsnet culture shock is how many people say they are tee total and that it makes other people angry/annoyed and that they are asked to justify it. I'm not shocked by them being tee total, I'm shocked by the fact that other people question it. Where I live no one would bat an eyelid at someone being tee total, about half the people I know don't drink alcohol.

IMO the only class obsession I ever come across in on MN, not in real life.

Where would you suggest avoiding if someone was an extreme animal lover?

If I saw something upsetting it would ruin my whole holiday & probably lead to either a prison sentence or debt from shipping the animal home.

I missed my own hen do in Ibiza because I had found a sick beautiful homeless dog. He'd clearly been abused and was dragging himself around the streets wanting food. I had to move hotels as the one we stayed at wouldn't allow him in my room. Then I had to get him vet checked and through a charity got him home to the U.K.

My DH wasn't all that impressed, especially when the same thing happened again with a kitten in turkey a few years later.

Dd is off to Gambia today. She's in for a big culture shock I think

Gillit I know what you mean. I saw a dog that had just been hit by a car when we were driving from the airport to our holiday villa and I must admit it spoiled the holiday for me. It was awful.