Biggest cultural shock you have come across?

[hibbledobble]

What have you encountered while travelling that was your biggest cultural shock?

I'll go first: in Poland I saw families/extended families living 10+ in a 2 bedroom home. The concept of having a bedroom or even a bed to oneself is seemingly unheard of. Everyone sleeps in different beds each night, and beds are often shared. Having visitors in this set up is no problem either: everyone just rearranges. Water also came from Wells, lots of homes had no bathrooms. Ovens were these metal beasts that were plugged into the mains.

@Ebearhug OMG yes - I remember my first encounter with Karneval in Germany. Drinking on a scale I have never come across anywhere else. There were MASH unit type hospitals in the streets with campbeds where drunks could sleep it off and the pavements were covered with a thin layer of trampled broken glass.

Kaybush -just checking - could they have been hot desking? If so, perfectly normal to sit by a different person everyday. If they had photos etc up though marking the desk as theirs, then yes, wow, bizarre!

My Scottish colleague is absolutely baffled by Karneval. He says that Germans are so strait laced and buttoned up for most of the year except for three occasions - Karneval, Silvester (NYE) and Oktoberfest and then they go absolutely nuts and it really, really bothers him!

I find Karneval alarming mainly because of the amount of openly drunk very young teenagers roaming around, but we don't go to the parades any more because the tradition near here is for people to wear huge carved wooden witch masks and DS is absolutely petrified of them and they notice this and decide to wind him up more

For me it has to be India it conflicted me in so many ways. I fell in love with the people, lost count of the number of people who I met that insisted I 'must come home' and would not allow me to decline an invite to their house. They made me feel so welcome and after 13 visits I have some amazing Indian friends.

The sense of family and the friendships they cherish, the way they celebrate birthdays and make it such a special day. Their tolerance and appreciation of different religions and their ability to celebrate all religious festivals.

Loved the spirit of the street kids, their positivity, sales skills and ability to communicate and build an emotional connection with limited English. Their work ethic, out selling mangoes, books or dusters from 9am until 10pm. I wanted to bottle their enthusiasm and inject it into the guys in the office.

The atmosphere when they won a cricket match, they city came to a standstill, it was crazy and celebrations went on all night.

Then there were the things I didn't love so much ....

Independence Day parade with 'mother india's' weapons on parade. Was shocked and aghast at the huge bombs and rockets being paraded in front of me.

The intolerance for those living in slums from the Indians I worked with, I was so shocked by their attitude to the poor. Very much felt it was their fault and a life style choice, no empathy for their situation not even the kids living in poverty.

Their ability to adhere to what I felt were pointless rules - no one challenged them ever! They just stuck to the process and rarely became frustrated.

In Mumbai I was so frustrated by the fact they openly littered, throwing rubbish out of car windows or on the street, their inability to see that one person could make a difference by using a bin!

Finally the lack of senior women in the work place. There are so many amazing women I've worked with who just don't get the same opportunities as men. Drives me wild but also makes me more determined to ensure within my department that we have equal opportunities!

@murphys it was the summer of 2006. We drove from Beitbridge to Capetown. The policeman incident happened in Bloomfontain. We had real difficulty getting a hotel to stay in when in Pretoria. The whole experience in South Africa was horrible, beautiful country but I definitely will not be going back.

I was somewhat outside the British class system, being a foreigner, so this may not be appropriate to say, but at least in Britain it's out in the open. Canada is very class-based, including heavy snobbery towards the intelligentsia, but no-one must speak of it. At least in Britain you know why people despise you.

I don't understand why people claim not to understand the British class system. I mean I get that they perhaps don't understand the subtle nuances of how it works, even some British people don't quite understand that. They tend to think that it's either purely money based, which is only partially true. People are often described as 'upper class' on here purely by dint of them being rich, which shows a deep misunderstanding of how it all works and how complicated it is.

But to claim they don't get a class system at all and they don't have it where they are from? Nah. I don't buy that. There isn't a country in the world that doesn't have its own version of a class system, where there is always an 'old money' class in one form or another.

Did you mean me, Lalegue? Because I certainly understand the British class system, it's hardly complicated.

In Canada it's a bit more based on money than old money. If you don't drive the right car or strive for a career then it doesn't matter who your grandparents etc were. People are very sneery in Canada about lack of visible "things", so it's a constant jostling for position.

No. It aimed at you at all lizzie I am in agreement with your comment, that's why I highlighted it! BUt there are other comments on this thread and others I've seen in the past that profess to not understand the whole concept of a British class system at all and they insist that there is no class system where they come from. There is ALWAYS a class system albeit one that workers in different ways perhaps. That was my point.

Oh :) I'm easily confused! I agree with you - people are so odd in not seeing, or claiming not to see a class system where they are. I'm guessing they either think they will be the ones to be the new Rockefeller or Branson etc or they're comfortable enough to look away and pretend poverty doesn't exist.

As to not understanding the British class system what do they find confusing? It's pretty straightforward!

I often say I don't understand the class system or think it is much less relevant than previously. But

Ignore the username I am of UK heritage back to 19th century at least
I am a degree educated professional
I like to go to Spain on holiday
I have no interest in possessions like cars or jewellery or what they say about someone
I see nothing wrong with sitting in the front garden or on the front step
I like reading, museums, outdoor activities and am not interested in popular television like x factor
We own a touring caravan and keep it on our driveway and it is only due to Mumsnet that I am aware that some people might have an issue with this
I like fish, olives and salad sort of food in preference to beige and chips
When we go to Spain on holiday I speak what Spanish I can and visit monuments in preference to getting pissed eating English breakfast in magaluf
I swear, drink pints and have had tattoos from a long time since before they were fashionable.

What class am I?

@TinyPawz

I am sorry. Its not right and shouldn't have happened. I am actually embarrassed to read how you were treated.

Silvester

Oh yes. Where they cheerfully set-off fireworks any old where, including across the street at another group of people. Germans clearly weren't brought up with any firework safety code or public information films about how they're going to horribly burn and maim you.

And then there's Schützenfest, a sensible mix of guns and alcohol, though I did get my revenge with morris dancers.

And you can just walk along the railway. I am nervous enough with just driving over a level crossing, and then he expected me to follow the railway for part of a Sunday afternoon walk.

I had thought Germans were all into rules and would know about health and safety and sensible stuff like that...

EBearhug the Dutch have this similar attitude to fireworks - especially on New Years Eve. They let massive rockets off horizontally along the street from their hands, big carpets of fire crackers across the pavement, holding fireworks in their hand while they are going off.

I'm always petrified and am internally screaming "Did nobody watch Blue Peter? Don't you know the Firework Code?"

Just one word about the class system.
Compare to where're I am coming from, the class system here is more like a system of casts.
Of course, in all countries you have a working class, a MC etc... but what you don't have is:

• the codification down to the vocabulary, the dress code, the way you furnish your house etc...
• the lack of movement from one class to the next. Just see how people are just laughing at Kate Middleton saying she just cannot be one of the royal, she will never be because she is only MC.
• the sneering at anyone who is above (reverse snobbery) that is in effect stopping people from moving from where they are. You are born Wc and will be all your life. If you do try and do better than you are 'bettering yourself' (if slightly positive) or 'looking above your station' (negative). Fwiw, I just can NOT translate those two expressions in my language as the concept just does NOT exist which gives you an idea on how foreign that sort of idea is. Plus you also know that it's only your own dcs that might have the chance of them becoming MC (or upper or whatever)...
• the evaluation of people justnon their accent, putting them into one category or the other. Incl the issue between being from the South or the North (the North always been the riughbtype with no education and not worth meddling with).

Now I know most people will say it's a caricature but 1- I haven't invented all that. This is all coming from one book, written by an English researcher, 'Watching the English' (I wouldn't have been able to pick up on all that) 2- yes experience has confirmed that behaviour again and again. The thing is most English/British people will not notice it because it's their normal so not worth noticing.

And look at this bonfire for a health and safety nightmare!

I tend to be a bit oblivious of class. I only ever see the British class system talked about on MN. It never crops up in conversation in RL. I suppose I am "middle class", but how is that defined? My dad was very much working class, and OH has an even more working class background than me, but OH is very highly educated and a leading specialist in his field. I am not degree educated, but have professional qualifications.

I have very similar interests and values to Barbara, except for the caravan, pints and tattoos

Through learning Esperanto I made the acquaintance of a Czech woman. We write a few letters.
Then she came to London on a tour and she announced she would come to visit me.
This wasn't convenient at all as with three teenagers in the house, I really didn't have a room for her. She was a bit pushy on this and I didn't want to appear inhospitable,
So I took her to our country cottage for the weekend with my Esperanto speaking daughter and friend.
First we went to Tesco. She couldn't get over all the aisles of food. She was an English teacher and had to spend a good part of her day making bread. She took photos of the food aisles. In fact I think I heard her mutter the very English word, obscene.this was about 25 years ago

Then onto our cottage. The daffodils were in bloom and she said she would like some. I said the villagers plant them and they wouldn't like anyone removing them.
What did she do. She went out at night and dug up some bulbs!
I was not amused. Thought that was very rude.

It soon became apparent she did not have much. She never changed clothes throughout the whole weekend visit.
We went to a cheap bookstore in york and she bought some books to take back with her for her class and was £10 short.
She asked to borrow the money so I gave it to her. Said to keep it but bless her she did send it to me.

All in all a very strange visit.

Agree with BluePeppers that Watching the English is a fascinating read. I like the fact that living abroad for most of my adult life has made me difficult to pigeonhole both in the UK and in my adopted home country.

I think "Watching the English" paints a very stylised version of the class "system" (it really isn't a system and it certainly isn't codified as BluePeppers asserts) for dramatic and comic effect

Ooo Dowser I'd love to learn Esperanto. How did you do that?

Dowser that's reminded me of a girl I studied with at uni. Her father had been a Czech dissident in the Soviet era, so she'd grown up knowing that her house was always watched, her father could be (and was) arrested on a pretty regular basis.

One day we were having coffee at mine and I said something unkind about a recent ex. She looked really shocked and asked "can you say that?" Um, yes, I'm in my own flat and he's not here. She then looked around the room and said "yes, but you know..." and looked really worried.

It hit me that she felt that she could never speak her mind on anything because someone was probably listening in. And that was almost twenty years after the Cold War ended.

She never changed clothes throughout the whole weekend visit.
But surely that's normal, as you don't take many clothes with you when you go on holiday.

As I said I didn't assert anything (about the UK)!myself for the simple reason that I couldnt have seen any of that by myself.

I do assert that none of the things I have mentioned happened in my country.

The point was, thought, that no, a class system like the one in the UK is NOT the case in every country and that it can feel so strange and foreign that it is non understandable for foreigners. Hence the culture clash.
See my comment about the fact that some words/expressions such as 'being above your station' or 'bettering yourself' do not exist in my language. The idea that you could do that doesn't exist because the so called class system is much more flexible, people aren't attached to whatever class they are from and the idea that you might not even want to 'move up' is totally outlandish.

On that line, another culture clash was when my MIL told me that my own dcs (her dgc) didn't belong to any class in the UK. They were international.
So these are children who were born and bred in the UK with a British father but somehow they still don't fit in..... (something confirmed by Dc1 btw as Dc1 feels very clearly that he is 'different' and doesntnqu Te belong to any 'group')

On Watching the English, Blue and Matador -- like you, I'm a resident foreigner fascinated by social class, but I just don't think it's very good, and that it's now pretty outdated, in any case. I think she's observant on some small issues, but, having lived here for twenty years, I simply don't recognise her depiction of the English as universally buttoned up, inhibited, socially-awkward obsessive queuers. It reads as if it's intended for the kind of American who think the English are basically 'quaint', and I don't think anyone who read Mumsnet on a regular basis would recognise the version of Englishness it puts forward either.

But a fascinating read nevertheless, BitOut, and more than a grain of truth in it.

All the countries I've spent more than a few weeks in have all had some sort of class system though, however subtle. IME it's certainly not an exclusively British thing, I think the British just tend to bang on about it more (cf. GB Shaw, Nancy Mitford, et al). And Watching the English