Holiday destinations that were unexpectedly lovely OR awful.

[NickiFury]

Torremolinos - ex booked it and I really didn't want to go. It was beautiful, amazing food, beach, perfect for kids, been back loads since.

Thailand - I hated it from the moment I left Bangkok airport, Krabi down by the coast was ok but the rest of the time was awful, I actually cried with relief when we touched down at Heathrow.

ergo in Portland I loved the big old redwood trees, great food, lots of fresh cherries, a bookshop that covers three blocks in the city, a chamber music festival, just a unique feel to the place. I was there without DC so can't comment on what they would have been doing!

bitoutofpractice don't want to derail, just want to say that racism is completely socially unacceptable among my friends, colleagues and basically everyone I know in Australia. It exists, but is not a universal feature. Just as I am sure among your friends it is not socially acceptable to abuse Eastern Europeans post brexit - yet this is currently happening in the UK.

Mrsjayy I've just got back from Las Vegas - it was my 50th birthday treat from DH.

When I first arrived I really thought oh god what have we done but I think that was just tiredness for the flight etc (had seen Lionel Richie at the O2 the night before flight ). I absolutely loved it in Vegas. We stayed in the Mandarin Oriental which I highly recommend, it had no casino so it is a bit of an oasis in the madness . We did a pink jeep tour of the Grand Canyon and the Hoover Dam - nobody else had booked the tour so it was like having our own private tour guide. We did a show every night including an Elvis impersonator (we were in Vegas!). Thoroughly recommend seeing Raiding the Rock Vault at the Tropicana.

It was our first holiday in 17 years without the DCs so I had high expectations and I wasn't disappointed. You have to embrace it. At one show we were sitting 6 feet away from Nicholas Cage and his very young girlfriend (ok it was Matt Goss's show at Caesers ).

Only thing I would say is probably don't go in July like we did - average temperature 38 - 40 degrees!

We went to Atlantic City once and stayed at the Trump Taj Mahal. We had fairly low expectations but it didn't come close to living up to them. It's like a giant Knutsford Services with slot machines and an underlying stink of stale cigarettes.

I had a great time in Australia, did the tried and tested backpacker route from Sydney to cairns. Only disappointment was Bondi beach and the Gold Coast. Not idyllic at all (plus the Olympic volleyball court was being set up on Bondi so it was a bit of a building site). But Fraser Island/Sydney/Byron Bay/whitsundays all brilliant! This was 16 years ago mind.

Other gems - Beijing (if you can stand the crowds and pollution there are some fascinating sights), Iceland, Snowdonia, North Yorkshire. Many more UK places.

Lanzarote is not classically pretty but has really interesting landscape that you won't see elsewhere. The vineyards and the lava areas are weirdly beautiful. We went there as a compromise holiday (I was pregnant and wanted winter sun but not too long a flight) and it was unexpectedly really nice - we stuck to the inland bits where the locals/arty ex pats live and avoided the package tour centric coasts. (Considering going back this winter with 2 small DC, but that would be a very different resort based holiday.)

Didn't like Cornwall, miserable people who obviously don't like anyone who isn't local.
Loved Madrid, although wasn't on holiday, I used to live there!
Jamaica was wonderful too.
Didn't like New York.

Croatia - the Istrian peninsula. Booked a cheap week away and we were expecting cheap and cheerful but it was by far the best holiday we've had. Beautiful towns and so many interesting places to go, and the food!!! Amazing.

I didn't enjoy New York. I'm pleased I went and saw the things we did, but it was so hot (30+ each day) and we seemed to spend hours each day waiting for buses, which would turn up and not stop because they were already full. The hotel was nice enough but the service was by far the rudest I've encountered anywhere in the world.

I've only been to Cornwall twice (St Ives area and then Mousehole) but have found people in shops, cafes etc generally delightful and, at worst, polite and pleasant. Maybe it depends where you go?

Saffron - it doesn't matter how anti-racist you and your friends are! You could be marching every week for the closure of the detainment camps holding refugee children! It doesn't matter that people experience racism all over the world! Yes Europe and the U.K. is experiencing an increase in racism. All of these things do not detract from the fact that Australia has a race problem. That is glaringly obvious to most of the outside world yet so internalised by so many living in Australia that it is just beyond disturbing because it allows all these problems to continue unchallenged, or not challenged enough.

What is your opinion on the detention of asylum seekers in inhumane conditions? Or Australia's historically low acceptance of asylum seekers? What do you think about the incredibly low life expectancy of Indiginous Australians? The high incarceration rates? The stunningly high rates of black deaths in custody? What about the repercussions of the stolen generations. Stolen wages? I could go on and on and on! The rights won by Mabo slowly being chipped away and handed to resource extraction companies? The fact that Pauline Hanson is back and as venomous as ever? This is not even touching on how all this feeds into and off of cultural attitudes.

Banging my head on the desk here. There is so much more at stake than you and your friends being nice and non-racist. But I guess it's much easier to ignore all the boring politics, institutionalised racism and just focus on how bloody nice you all are and how mean everyone is for pointing out goddamn human rights violations!

Please. Have a conversation with an aboriginal person and ask them about racism. Listen to voices outside your comfortable space. Listen without being offended. Put your precious white fragility aside for just 5 minutes.

Because, and this is the last time I'm going to say it, when you refuse to see something and deny its existence, you allow it happen. You collude in it.

"Hated Avignon (didn't manage to find the bit that wasn't a red light district)"

Did you not have a map? It's sad to go all the way to Avignon and totally miss its historical beauty.

Marrakech was awful. Smelt awful, complete culture shock and I got food poisoning. Trouble was I only started to feel ill when we were out at a cafe and toilets charge you to get in & they hand you 2 squares of toilet roll on entry. 2 squares when you have diarrhea is not appreciated. I was so embarrassed as I had to ask a waiter in the restaurant (as the toilet attendant couldn't speak English) to just let me have free reign of the toilet and a toilet roll so I didn't myself!

• so I didn't shit myself

'Anyone planning on Dublin, pm me please I'll sort you, great place for families, couples, individuals. Disappointed that people hated it cause they were probably in the wrong areas'

Ah don't be sad because some MNers didn't like Dublin. No it's not a Rome or a Paris where there are seventy million attractions to see so maybe not people's idea of a 'wow' weekend destination. I think it's a city whose best side is shown by living in it. It's got a beautiful coastline, it's compact, these days are lots of great restaurants, beautiful countryside is only a short drive away. And best of all it's full of witty Dubs! It's a city for living in rather than visiting imo. Like many UK cities.

Ami I don't dispute what you say about the politics of Australia, but this is really a thread about holiday destinations, and parts of Australia are stunningly beautiful.

Amibambini I think you are being harsh on Saffron. She is not denying any of the racism that exists in Australia. She has said amongst her friends and family racism is unacceptable. You are suggesting she somehow is part of the problems of a vast country. Not fair. She seems to be doing what most of us do - living her own life by values that racism is not part of. There is a much bigger picture in Australia but she has not denied that.

Majorca. Had to go for work and thought it would be awful. It wasn't it is the most beautiful island.

Kenya. Thought it would be the holiday of a lifetime - awful place, desperately poor, dangerous and full of terrible ex pats.

EGYPT - hated. Had food poisoning all week. Everything is man made and there is an air of danger.

MAJORCA - went to Cala dor for a cheap weekend away with my Mum and loved it, beautiful place, lots of cove beaches, a gorgeous harbour and lots of shops and resturants (without it being too busy or tacky)

I don't dispute that there is racism in Australia. I do dispute that racist behaviour is socially acceptable and that saying Australia is racist is a reasonable summary. And yes, I have marched and protested against both the in humane detention of refugees and the inequities in the lives of indigenous people.

I didn't like Dublin much either. It was just quite boring.

Loved goa, ubud in bali, some parts of Australia,berlin, Brittany, verbier out of season.

Hated some parts of Australia, some of France is desperately dull. A lot of bali isn't nice.

Our worst family holiday destination without a doubt was Crete. I think we chose the wrong resort (can't remember which...it was over 10 years ago.) The self catering villa was awful, so we spent the entire holiday sitting on the balcony....but the actual "resort" seemed like it had it's day back in the 1980s. There were disused old "dead pedalos" piled up on the side of the road. The were a couple of tavernas and bars, but they were barely open. The beach was covered in used tampons and other rubbish.

However, one of the main problems was finding places to buy food for the self catering aspect of our holiday. We couldn't really find anywhere to buy food like a small supermarket or even a market, despite travelling around the island quite extensively. We ended up shopping in corner shops which had dubious frozen meat which looked like it had been in the freezer for 5+ years. Heard it is a place you either love or hate...

Sidari is truly horrible. However, kassiopi which isn't far away is absolutely stunning. Perfect, clear water with a view of Albania. Always get a hire car on Greek islands. Corfu town is nice but ruined by beggars, women holding drugged babies out to you so you give them money. Little girls sent over to beg. While groups of men who are coordinating the begging sit round on motorbikes smoking.

I have never been to Australia. But reading people's experiences here of racism, I am not sure I would want to go. Yes racism is everywhere. But if you are black it makes sense to go somewhere on holiday where you are personally unlikely to experience at least overt racism.

Lanzarote also has lots of buildings designed by Cezar Manrique. We discovered that most of these had very reasonably priced and delicious restaurants. It was hot when we were there, so we got into a bit of a routine where we visited one of these beautiful buildings in the morning, had a long relaxed lunch inside when it was at its hottest, and then did something else in the afternoon.
There was also an amazing bar a short walk from our villa. Really luxuriously styled with sofas you were encouraged to lounge on outside, a beautiful view of the sea and brilliant cocktails.

I do dispute that racist behaviour is socially acceptable and that saying Australia is racist is a reasonable summary
I worked there - racist jokes were circulated to All Staff - that to me indicates how socially acceptable racism is.

I won't say I hate the UK, but I hated the blatant racism and denial of it existing. Never experienced such a degree of denial anywhere else I've been.

Oh and no, racism is not socially acceptable in Aus. Far fucking from it! sick of this lazy rhetoric on MN. There is so much to be done to overcome and improve on in terms of the still terrible repercussions of British colonialism on the Indigenous populations and the impact of racist government legislation, a very, very small minority will deny this. The Australian government is embarrassing, disgusting, inhumane and its policies will one day soon be recognised as what definitely fucking not to do to protect human rights. But socially, the Australian people are in the vast majority very aware of our terrible history and very inclined not to repeat it. I have never heard racism be socially accepted in Australia, rather, it is recognised and called out on.

Anyway, not the point of the thread, everywhere I've been has been lovely, particularly places I expected to dislike.