To kick these people out?

[CompletePushover]

7 yrs and this is my first AIBU, and I'm so cowardly I've name changed

So... After years of renting crappy places dh, the 4dcs and I have finally bought a lovely house.

It's great. Needs loads of work doing on it. Lots of potential, completely neglected and now ours. The people who had it before us had some problems and had criminally neglected their animals. The house comes with a field.

Now begins the lovely story. A few years ago Some people passing by saw how neglected the horse in the field was and took it upon themselves to look after it. They did amazing things, built him a shelter, bought him food, trimmed his hooves, all of it.

The horse is a stallion and unbroken but of nice temperament. But it means he can be flighty.

Move on a year and one of the group has taken on most of the care and bought their own horse who now lives rent free in the field.

Two weeks before completion the owner tells us we will be inheriting a cat and that the horses are staying (he's gifted the stallion to the other horse owner)

So... We panicked until lovely horse person came to our door and seemed very nice, and we said they could stay until Easter and then we'd see (rent free).

This all seemed ok, but there have been annoyances: There's no where else to park but in our drive, when we want to wander around the field with the dcs we have to struggle through two horses and it's a nightmare, and now finally we have bought out longed for dog and I can't walk him on my field without someone with me because I can't carry a baby and a puppy and fend off the horses on my own, in December we were told they use one of our sheds for feed, And there are other people who are part of the group who have not introduced themselves to me, but who go on to my field regularly.

So this evening we've let the horse owner know that beyond the end of march we want our field back. At the moment I've used it twice since we moved in and I want to use it daily.

They're not happy. I tell a lie, one is not happy, the other is completely understanding.

I know they did a good thing, I know they put work into the field (shelter and fencing) but I also know they've had free pasture for 18 months in return, and I think it's become a picnic spot for them all.

AIBU? And should I be growing a backbone, because I'm already trying to think of a way to section off some of it, which I know would only end up delaying the inevitable? I'm also worried because I'm in no way insured to have this all going on on my property.

I want nice things for the people who have done good, but at the same time I want to enjoy my home. I also have PND and desperately want to be outside but can't cope with being around people. Just to throw that in there.

find out where Angry Woman is living and take the horse to hers and picket it on the front lawn

Or perhaps an agricultural show? Best goat, Most placid sheep etc

wrt to serving notice.
agree, ask the solicitor.
another thought. they park their car on your drive? take their plate numbers, that might help finding a servable adress.
also can you get a parking bollard with lock installed (relatively cheap in dyi stores)?

OP, YANBU at all to want these people off your land. As a multiple horse owner (including multiple stallions)who has been in their position several times over the last few years I amazed at how they have taken the piss. We paid rent on land/small yard for over a year without ever using it because the main land we rented was up for sale, I knew that I would be able to find livery for the bulk, although at great cost for so many, but that I would need somewhere self contained for the stallions when the time came to move. I also have the benefit of a free field thanks to an amazing friend coming to our rescue, I would never take advantage of this and am grateful to her every day for the blessing she has given us. If she asked us to leave we would make other arrangements without bitterness.

If they cause you problems between now and the notice date (which is a very reasonable amount of time imo) then bring it forward. They have no rights to stay and you don't need a solicitor. If they don't move by the given date tell them that the horses will be tied to the gate the following day and the gate locked. If they leave the stallion get in the vet and have it PTS, there are worse things that could happen to it! How dare they think they have the right to abuse your goodwill in this way.

Please be careful with your puppy if you walk in the field whilst the horses are there, I have seen my own roll a dog and stamp on it and one picked up by it's back and thrown. As a horse owner for many years I was traumatised by just how dangerous/nasty they can be around dogs if they don't like them, and these are ones I trust with my kids! Good luck in your new home, enjoy it and enjoy the space and freedom to move about your own land.

Tiredout is right, there are worse things than being PTS for a horse. Done by a competent person it is very quick and the horse knows nothing about it. So if they do try to use that as an argument for letting them stay, please bear it in mind.

Completepushover, I've sat and read your thread and all the comments.
With hindsight the advice to take vacant possession was how it should've been, but it's obvious that you were trying to be accommodating and kind to people who in turn, had been helping someone else's sorry situation. It's just a shame that this is biting you on the bum.

I hope you get a satisfactory resolution without too much more aggro, but do keep at the front of your mind that this is not a situation of your making and no one can blame you in any way for wanting use of your own land, free from arrangements which you didn't grant in the first place.
You've gone out of your way to help, so don't let anyone tell you that this isn't enough.

As an aside the talk of horns and 'best goat' in the show raised a daft looking on my face.
Just how does one choose a 'best goat'?

I would start to make things difficult for them. First stop them parking on your drive - especially as there is parking nearby.

Turn off the water to the field so they have to transport it.

Padlock YOUR shed where they are keeping stuff.

You may find they suddenly find somewhere for the horses to go!

Rabbitgive a Nash kick with their back legs you know, they are not cuddly hamsters you know ;)

My hamster took a chunk out of someone's thumb.

They're not cuddly pet rocks you know.

I'm absolutely staggered at the absolute cheek of this. Maybe they did start off with the best of intentions but WTF!

They are getting a free field for their horse, they commandeer your drive, they are using your outbuildings, letting their dogs run loose round your property and shit on your drive! The piece de resistance is using your metred water and she had the nerve to scream at your DH when he gave them notice! Speechless!

I wouldn't wait until the end of March, I think you are being far too generous. Until then as other PP's have suggested ban them from your property and from using your water, just allow them into the field only!

When I married dh he came complete with farm and mad horsey people. I can well believe the way these ones are behaving, and you may find that they've been chucked off previous yards etc. Suffice to say when we moved I said we were never having liveries in any shape or form again and we have pretty much kept to that. I'd get home from work and find them sitting in my garden watching their dogs dig up my newly planted garden etc. obviously dh should have sorted them all out at the beginning, but he didn't and it became quite a nightmare.

A note of caution re the stallion (though Tiredoutgran has really said it all), it really is not safe to have one around dogs or children. Our ex stallion (gelded late) was in a field with my ds's calves when he kicked one and broke its leg. He's never lost that bit of attitude despite having a lovely nature with people, and I certainly would be worried about him with a puppy.

You're doing the right thing; you've given them plenty of notice and my bet is they're known around the village for being difficult. The idea of offering the field for a summer function is inspired, you will meet the locals and get them on-side.

I'd be tempted to section off the field but only leave them a tiny bit round their shelter. When they have to start spending a fortune on hay they might think differently!

:) I can only assume that goats are judged on their stackability and proficiency with a flickknife, nothing else makes sense.

You are all lovely and I am feeling much better. I've spent the day in my tiny garden clearing it of blackthorn, so I'm covered in cuts, but at least I've been outside. No sign of horse people today.

I do worry about the puppy, I've been carrying her through the horses and then putting her down once they finally stop following me. Which is a pain and means I can't go on my own with the baby.

I've had a reply from someone I emailed saying they can't help with taking horses but i could apply for an abandonment thingy at any point which would mean that 2 weeks later I would own the horses and could do what I want with them (unless they are moved). So that's really good to know. She also thought I was reasonable.

I am the most reasonable person in the world (I must be if both mn and most horsey people think I am!)

CompletePushoever, are you in the UK?
Do the horses have passports and whose name are they in?
Are the horses insured? They should ideally be insured for 3rd party liability at the very least. Who maintains the fending? You may find yourself liable if they escape and do damage, even if they are not yours.

Brit, yup in UK. This does concern me. It also concerns me that anyone hurting themself in my field is not covered by my insurance and could sue me.

There are so many ways this could cost me.

No passports as far as I know. Not got a clue. I have no paperwork whatsoever.

Is there an age limit where animals would not require passports? Or would a 30 yr old horse need one? Hadn't even considered that tbh.

All horses in the UK need to have a passport. The passport should always be with the horse, as far as is practical (although I keep mine safely in the house and not in my tack room, bringing them out when the vet visits) and must be held in any vehicle transporting the horse for the duration of the journey.

If the horse has not been passported, which is entirely possible due to his age (compulsory passports were introduced around 2003 ish, although most breed societies had introduced them much earlier), then he cannot legally be given certain common veterinary prescribed medications although in practise, most vets would treat a sick horse for compassionate reasons regardless of existence of a passport.

DEFRA is the organisation that has ultimate responsibility for enforcing passport ownership - you could call your local office and outline the circumstances of the horse being there. You will not be liable as it is the owner who is legally obliged to passport the animal. Could be that the hassle of DEFRA toddling about looking for a passport might persuade horse owner to remove it.

T3, thanks for the information. I very much doubt it has a passport. Could this be used as another reason not to move him? Since he cannot be moved without one (I'm assuming due to foot and mouth etc.)

Horse passports are mainly there to stop vet medicines like bute entering the human food chain.

I don't think there's an exemption for horses based on age - I think there's an exemption from microchipping if they're over a certain age.

Poor you, this just gets more and more complicated, doesn't it? I'm sure there must be a passport for at least the second horse - unless the vet who looks after them has also been breaking the rules too. I'm assuming they've had vet treatment at some point?

This could get complicated but at the moment it isn't. You give them notice to go. If they don't then you put the abandonment notice on the gate and come back to us for more advice. Or better still, join the Horse and Hound forum and post in the Tack Room there for advice. There are plenty who have been through similar situations on that group.
Personally I wouldn't give passports, pts, rescues etc a moment's thought. Just give them formal notice to go tell them that they do not have your permission to park on your property.

I am concerned that you are going into the field with your children and puppy and having to fend horses off. This is not a safe situation, with a stallion or any horse. If you are not used to horses it is easy to misinterpret their signals, and they can spin and kick out in an instant.
Do they use electric fencing at all to divide the field? I would be telling them to split the field immediately so that you have an easily accessible area that you can go in and enjoy, with the horses on the other side of the fence. (Make sure you don't feed the horses by the way - ever). It's not safe for you to be in there with your children at the moment, really it isn't.

My brother is in a very loosely similar position and I would recommend getting a solicitor to ensure you serve notice to them correctly. My bro had to put signs up around the yard for example as well as giving them a letter. You want to be sure you can go to the next step (and know what that is) if they don't leave, or leave the stallion behind.

TBH, I wouldn't blame you at all for PTS the stallion if they didn't take it. You didn't ask for a horse and if rehoming options are exhaused then sadly you don't have too many options.

Wishing you all the best and I hope they leave peacefully.

Well no good deed goes unpunished.

You have been amazingly nice OP. Depression is awful and you need your OH to sort this out for you asap. Don't get involved and speak to these 'ladies' and let them upset you. I personally think you have given them far too much time to get moved out. 4 weeks max would have been enough. Bring the date forward if you have to. Its certainly not impossible to find livery for a stallion. With more and more competition horses being kept entire, yards often now do have facilities for them. At a price. The last few yards I have been on have all taken stallions. What these people are really objecting to is the inconvenience and cost. If they want to they will find a suitable yard. It may be 40 minutes drive and cost £300 a month but if they want it they will find it.

I agree re putting a bollard up or something so they can't get onto your drive and park there. Give them notice that in 1 weeks time the water will be turned off. Don't allow them to bring their dogs on the yard. I wouldn't worry about your puppy as long as the dogs are healthy and vaccinated, but that's not the point - your home your rules and why should you put up with a strange dog running in your garden pooing. To be honest I would also ask them to fence off the majority of the field and keep the horses in a smaller area until they are moved out. That would allow you to have enjoyment of your land until they are gone. Hopefully if you make life uncomfortable with the lack of parking, no dogs, having to heft their own water and fence off the field, they will be gone sooner rather than later.

I think your OH does need to start to come across as quite hard to get rid of them. Otherwise as you say, when the date comes, they will just say they are abandoning the horses and leave them there calling your bluff. Make sure you have the name and number of the local vet/huntsman so OH can say with certainty that if the horses are not moved, an appointment will be booked with x on y date and the cost will be z and you will bill them once the procedure is done. Also you will notify the authorities that the horses have been abandoned on your land. I also agree with the earlier posted that said to join the horse and hound forum and get advice there. There are lots of very helpful people with a wealth of information there that may be able to help.

Unfortunately no matter what you do you will be seen as a villain by some in the community. Hopefully people will judge you and your OH by your merits, not the stories that may be made up about you. You seem so lovely and its awful that your good nature has been abused in this way.

I haven't read all 297 messages, I just hope that they don't decide to pull up the fences and remove the shelter i.e. don't want to leave the, 'improvements' behind.

Actually it sort of is your business whether these horses are passported or not. ALL equines in the UK MUST have a passport. It is illegal to transport them to a new home without one. The passports also have a section for vaccinations. No reputable transport company will move them without passports. No reputable yard owner will accept them without proof that their vaccinations are up to date. They may use this as an argument for not leaving, saying that the transporter refused them, oh well they will have to stay...

I still think that the passport issue is the problem of these people who own the horses. They probably have them anyway, as the horses seem to be cared for properly and they would need passports when they do vaccinations. If they say "We can't move them, they don't have passports" the answer is "Oh dear, well you had months to sort that out. So if they can't be moved you will have to have them pts".

I've never been asked to show my horses passports when I've moved them to be honest. But I always have to show them when using a pro transporter.

More useful info, I've just read it all to dh and he says he'll deal with it from here on in.

You're very right about the children and the dog. I am experienced with cattle and horses (although on the ground not on their backs) and have been the one fending them off whilst the others slip through behind me, but I'm fully aware that this isn't enough and in all honesty, after that first time with the dcs I haven't taken them over again and the second time it was just me and the dog (who I carried past them).

The dcs are under strict instructions not to feed them, but I know everyone else who visits hand feeds carrots etc. so the horses are pushier. Not one of the volunteers has young children and despite being warned that the stallion can be flighty they seem to see him as harmless. That said the horses are nice horses. The new one is young which is annoying too.

I don't know if there have been any formal vet visits or if it's all been layman diagnoses and dietary change. I can't imagine the previous owners sorting a passport.

Dh is also very nice. He hates having to be firm with anyone , but I know he's worried about me and will put me first. We've decided that any more agro will mean we have to reduce the notice to 4 weeks. We want to demand that for the next 2 1/2 months they put up an electric fence so that we can use most of our land. But we don't want to make things more unpleasant for ourselves either.

I still haven't decided if this is a case of someone consciously taking advantage, or simply carrying on with their previous actions ( from before we moved in) oblivious to the fact that they are imposing upon us. I really hope it's the latter. Like I said before, I really liked them all. But with hindsight every time I've invited them in for a cuppa I've been fobbed off. So although they've said they'd love to ( and yes I am sad and lonely) perhaps it's the land they like and not me anyway.

How's that for some fine Sunday morning self pity?