Archaeologists are DNA testing some bones they've found to see if they might be the remains of Richard III. Are there any other members of the Royal Family....

[seeker]

where DNA testing might produce interesting results?

Has anyone started a new thread, if so can you please link it before we run out of space? loving this thread.

This is fascinating

Coming back to Richard and the question of his burial, according to the Times this morning he started building a chapel at York Minster and wanted to be buried there.

But I would feel a bit sorry for Leicester Cathedral if he went to York. It doesn't have much to drag the tourists in, whereas York Minster already gets squillions of visitors. Presumably having Richard would mean a lot to Leicester, and as I understand it that was the agreement with the archaeologists.

Re topics for threads like this, we could always go and squat in another topic, which was what happened with The Great Outdoors - people posted in an old unused World Cup topic until it became evident there was a demand for the new topic and MNHQ kindly made one.
There's already a 'family history' topic in 'other subjects' which doesn't get a huge amount of traffic, but enough to justify its existence. If we posted there, putting 'not family history' at the start of all the thread titles, it would keep the threads together and also anyone interested in family history is likely to be interested in history in general as well.

That's true. And Leicester has been doing a lot recently to improve the city centre. I think it's a lovely city. I would like to see it get more noticed.

Thank you Tickle and LRD, I will follow up those suggestions. I have often googled the Boleyns but don't think I've come across the Anne Boleyn Files, have subscribed so will see what new information that brings.

I bought my sister a book on the Boleyns for christmas and it mentioned that when Anne was imprisoned in the Tower, one of her ladies in waiting was an Aunt, and I wondered if it could have been Edward's wife (or maybe widow) Ann (Tempest).

I visited Hever Castle a few years ago, and upstairs in a dark corner was a very old Boleyn family tree, you weren't supposed to take photographs but we managed a quick one when the guide's back was turned. It does mention Edward but annoyingly not any of his descendants. I asked if the tree had been printed in any of the guide books or even a postcard but the answer was no on both counts. We also visited Blickling Hall but they had nothing of interest that far back.

Amazing thread! I want a MN history club. I've never met anyone else who's read The Wool Pack before. I've just read a fascinating bio of Thomas Wyatt (can't say that to too many people without getting very strange looks) anyway there is a discussion in there of the meaning of the word happy in those times that makes Anne's motto 'the most happy' seem very interesting indeed. Basically happy means fate or circumstance 'Such hap as I am am happed in' as Wyatt had it.

I found Jonanna Denny's bio of Anne both very detailed and readable for anyone who wants to know more about her.

They x-rayed the most famous portrait of Richard a few years back and both his face and one shoulder had been re-painted at a later date (prob Tudor) to make him look shifty and crooked.

(sorry if someone's said this - haven't time to read whole thread)

Great idea about giving threads like this a home Tunip

carri - I think there's doubt whether it was Edward's wife or Elizabeth Wood, the wife of one of the other brothers? Not sure. I know about Edward's children, but can't find any books associated with them (what you'd really want is family papers which might say when he died as the girls were co-heirs). I will keep an eye out though, nothing I like better than when you suddenly find someone you were looking for in an old book.

Does anyone else, btw, have the most brilliantly specific set of Amazon recommendations now?!

I reckon the people at Amazon sigh whenever a long history thread comes up on MN, and the sellers of textbooks grin to themselves ...

Please join the call for a MN History Club

Thanks!

I have to admit, Leicester isn't the first place that springs to mind on the tourist trail, but a quick look reveals a rich heritage. I'm inclined to think that if it's known that Richard intended to be buried at York, then his wishes should be respected.
King's are well known for their fickle natures though. Henry III insisted he wished to be buried in the Temple Church (the round church of the Knights Templar in London - where my greatest crush, William Marshal lay). He even had the choir demolished and rebuilt of a size to accommodate him, only for them to discover upon his death that he'd changed his mind and wished to be buried at Westminster Abbey, which he duly was.

Oh, but Leicester is great! Always worth a visit (and I miss the food so much).

at Henry III. That's so mean!

I know LRD.
He even attended the consecration of the new choir. I bet they were well pissed.

Fabulous book about Elizabeth the first is Legacy by Susan Kay.

They must've been livid, yeah.

I'm adding Legacy to my list ....

Right. I have just done this for myself, so thought I would post in case anyone else would like - it's a list of all the books mentioned through this thread. I hope it's accurate. I didn't separate into fiction/non-fiction because as I did it I realized I wasn't sure about all of them and didn't want to look on Amazon for so many books!

Legacy by Susan Kay
Joanna Denny, biography of Anne Boleyn
Biography of Thomas Wyatt recommended by fuchzia, no title.
Book on the Boleyn family recommended by carrimarie
The Assassin?s Wife, by Moonyeen Blakely (fiction: witchcraft; Princes in the Tower)
Jean Plaidy ? several inc. The Plantagenet Prelude
Eric Ives, biography of Anne Boleyn
Alison Weir ?several inc. Lady in the Tower; Innocent Traitor
Sharon Penman ? several inc. The Welsh Trilogy (Here Be Dragons; Falls the Shadow; The Reckoning); Sunne and Splendour
Rosemary Hawley Jarman ? several inc. We Speak No Treason
Anne O?Brien, Devil?s Consort
Barbara Williard, Spring of Broom (series); Lark and Laurel (series)
Cynthia Harnett (fiction), The Load of Unicorn; The Wool Pack; Writing on the Hearth; Ring Out Bow Bells; Stars of Fortune; The Great House
Anya Seton ? several, inc. Katharine
Michael Hicks, biography of Clarence
Rosemary Sutcliffe, several including Knight?s Fee
Barbara Erskine, Hiding from the Light (re. witchcraft; Matthew Hopkins); Lady of the Hay
Alison Uttley, A Traveller In Time
Juliet Barker, Agincourt
CJ Sanson, several
Bernard Cornwell, several
Posie Graeme Evans; several (lexilicious ?would like to know the MN history panel's views on her writing? Pop history bonk buster or well researched??)
Norah Lofts, The Old Vine trilogy; The Concubine
Margaret George, The Autobiography of Henry VIII
Josephine Tay, The Daughter of Time
Ian Mortimer, The Greatest Traitor
Helen Castor, She Wolves; Blood and Roses
Amy Kelly, Eleanor of Aquitaine; Four Kings
Rosamund Miles, I, Elizabeth
Philippa Gregory; several
Rosemary Hawley Jarman; several
David ?I?m a misogynist? Starkey; several (cos he?s not a terrible historian. Ish.)
Elizabeth Chadwick, several inc. The Greatest Knight; The Scarlet Lion; Lady of the English
Thomas B. Costain, The Pagent of England series
Thomas Penn, Winter King (re. Henry VIII)
The Paston Letters (original documents; available online in selected form IIRC)
Paul Doherty, Isabella and the Strange Death of Edward II
Piers Paul Read, The Templars
Gillingham and Griffiths, Medieval Britain: A Very Short Introduction
Ben MacIntyre (re. spies in WWII)
Frances Stonor Sauders, Hawkwood
Jacqueline Wilson, Hetty Feather (Victorian)
Marjorie Chibnail, biography of Matilda, mother of Henry II
The Macclesfield Psalter (facsimile ? it costs a bomb but gorgeous)
Simon Scharma, History of Britain series
Hilary Mantel, several inc. Wolf Hall and Bring Up the Bodies
Tracey Boreman, Matilda, Wife of the Conqueror, First Queen of England
George Bernard (work re. Anne Boleyn)
Antonia Fraser, Warrior Queens
1066 And All That
John Ashdown-Hill, The Last Days of Richard III
Johanna Rickman, Love, Lust, and License in Early Modern England
Crown in Candlelight
A Man For All Seasons (play)
Claire Cross re. Lollard women
Barbara Tuchman, The Distant Mirror

Btw, sieglinde/signy, sorry, I missed your post yesterday but saw it as I was re-reading. When you said 'And (not really on the same subject), no offense to anyone but the Catholic Church was up and running by at least 100 AD; therefore by 11th century it had been around for 900+ years.'

Well, not exactly! If you are Catholic, you will say this. If you are Orthodox, you will say the Orthodox Church is the one that has been around from 100 AD. The two Churches have a sort of 'agree to disagree' situation going on, where each is sure of its own status as the original Church.

That was what I was getting at when I referred to the Schism and the 11th century.

LaQ I am trying not to look at my total spends on Amazon! It's great isn't it?

Great list, LRD, many thanks for that.

No trouble Line

to everyone on this thread for brilliant financially ruinous suggestions.

We could reserve them all at out local libraries and help to keep them open!

Great list! That's my Christmas list sorted out. I had forgotten about Barbara Tuchman, that's a goodun. And totally forgotten reading Crown in Candlelight aged 15! That was actually a pretty good novel - why did they all have such drippy names?? No wonder historical fiction stayed a niche genre so long.

I should have put a health warning on that Hicks Clarence biog by the way, it is very much an academic monograph and anecdote/interest is thin on the ground. If anyone needs recommendations for other hardcore academic texts on the 14thC/15thC I have a big list of them