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40+40x0+1 ?

539 replies

minimuffy · 09/11/2011 19:48

40 + 40 x 0 + 1 =

A- 1
B- 41
c- 0

I say its B-41 as you need to multiply then add. (from what i remember of standard grade maths the acroymym BOMDAS- brackets off, multiply, divide, add, subtract)

DH says its 1.

please tell he's wrong!

OP posts:
BeattieBow · 12/11/2011 17:29

is bodmas a relatively recent invention? I don't know anything about it and I got an A at o level maths?! (so I would have said 1, oh well).

haven't read the second half of the thread which got too technical for me.

noblegiraffe · 12/11/2011 18:08

Hurrah, there are 3 yellow sides and 2 out of the 3 have yellow on the other side.

My first instinct was to say 1/2 though :)

schnitzelvoncrumm · 12/11/2011 20:28

I'm not sure if anyone has answered the nuns one already, but in the question £2 was sneakily added when it should have been subtracted :)

Here's a fun (and elementary, I promise) question.

You need to be able to weigh any quantity of material from 1kg to 14kg using traditional scales. (only whole numbers, 1,2,3,...,40). You are allowed three weights. What weights do you use which will enable you to do this?

Jux · 12/11/2011 20:46

Can you swap sides around and things like that, or does it have to be one weighing for each weight?

jjkm · 12/11/2011 21:19

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Jux · 12/11/2011 21:39

Minds you, you can make any weight you want if you do multiple weighings and can put your weight in with already weighed goods using only one 1kg weight.

Changebagsandgladrags · 12/11/2011 21:56

If I ran some course choices by a couple of you mathematicians would you be able to advise me? By PM prolly best.

I have to chooe next steps asap.

jjkm · 12/11/2011 22:09

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PacificDogwood · 12/11/2011 22:54

Wow, you made into MN Classice - I just noticed. Congratulations Grin!

'Tis now too late to actually read back, but I will catch up

PacificDogwood · 12/11/2011 22:54

Classics even - told you, too late

mammanetta · 13/11/2011 21:14

I think it's badly written down too...

Should be 40 + (40x0) + 1 and would have been less confusing to read.

But ultimately it's the zero which cancels out the 2nd 40, which counts...so the end result is definitely 41.

Still, made me think!

Jux · 13/11/2011 23:02

Here's another one:

48/2(9+3)

Is the answer 2 or 288?

Lougle · 13/11/2011 23:06

Because brackets first 9+3=12
then multiplication and division

so 2x12=24
48/12=2

If it was 288 you would effectively have to change the sum to (48/2)(9+3)

dopeytwonk · 13/11/2011 23:32

For anyone who still cares, I?m going to attempt to explain all the answers to all the questions from this thread.

The way calculations work is
B
Do the calculations in Brackets/Parentheses first (if there are any)
I
If any, do the Indices (aka Powers, Orders, Exponents - squared, square root, cubes)
DM
Multiplication or Division, calculate them next reading left to right
AS
Finally, Add or Subtract the numbers reading left to right

(Note : Lougle?s method - technically division doesn?t precede multiplication, but you do either one reading left to right, same for addition/subtraction)

The letters give rise to BIDMAS (currently preferred in UK schools c.1995), PEMDAS/PEDMAS (USA) BODMAS/BOMDAS (UK c.1960, widespread by 1980, replaced by BIDMAS as I for Indices is a much more widely used term than O for order).

The acronyms to remember them by have only been around for about 4 generations, but the priority ranking of these operations has always been, here?s why:

Addition (and its opposite, Subtraction) is the most basic operation.

When you Multiply, it?s a shorthand for repeated Addition ?

Instead of writing 4 + 4 + 4 + 4 + 4 + 4, you write 4 x 6.

The latter is a quick way of writing the former

Similarly, indices are a shorthand for repeated multiplication,
Instead of writing 4 x 4 x 4 x 4 x 4 x 4, you write 4 to the power 6

So effectively, when you are calculating, you need to unpack the Indices (the highest operation), followed by unpacking the multiplication (or it?s opposite, division), before you get to the adding and subtracting.

40 + 40 x 0 + 1
means
40 plus 40 zeroes plus 1

In its long form, it would be

40 + 0 + 0 + 0 +... (40 times) + 1

New calculators (from the last 10/15 years) will do the order of operations for you. Basic calculators, like the ones on phones, wont. The easiest way to tell whether your calculator does it is to press the square root button, then 25 and then equals. An old calculator will still say 25, a new calculator will say 5 (the right answer).

Of course the old calculator can do the calculation, but you have to type things in a more complicated way (for harder sums).

Dividing by zero

the answer is undefined for normal arithmetic rules, and that includes zero divided by zero. Check Wikipedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_by_zero under the ?in algebra? section ? for certain fields, infinity is sometimes given as the answer but as a general principle, dividing by zero does not given a specified result.

5 + 5 + 5 - 5 + 5 + 5 - 5 + 5 x 0 =

  1. Multiply the 5 zeros to get zero (5 x 0 = 0), it becomes 5 + 5 + 5 - 5 + 5 + 5 - 5 + 0
  2. Now we?re down to Addition and Subtraction left to right, so just keep a running total

5

  • 5 = 10 +5 = 15 - 5 = 10 +5 = 15 +5 = 20 -5 = 15 + 5 zeroes still 15

So the answer is 15. (The other methods where you group together all the additions and subtractions are equivalent, and possibly easier)

48/2(9+3)

Here is a good example of why you should use

B Brackets
I Indices
DM Division OR Multiplication, reading left to right
AS Addition OR Subtraction, reading left to right

Using the rules:

  1. after doing 9+3=12, you?d see

48/2x12

2)And if you do division and multiplication left to right, that makes 48/2 = 24

then 24 x 12 = 288

Division and Multiplication are the same level of operation (one is the opposite of the other) so you read them left to right.

Some mathematicians will disagree, here is one article on it thecorridortheory.blogspot.com/2011/05/ending-48293-debate.html, but if Wolfram Alpha says it's 288, it's 288.

Final note : Wolfram Alpha does say that dividing by zero gives infinity! But if you look at the type of infinity it gives, it is one which is undefined. For normal arithmetic, dividing by zero is undefined...

I should really go to bed now...

TotemPole · 14/11/2011 01:41

48/2(9+3)

That looks like:

48
--
2(9+3)

if it is then the answer is 2

But if it's really:

48
---(9+3)
2

then the answer is 288.

Thumbwitch · 14/11/2011 02:24

Excel says it's 288 but I agree with totempole, if that were handwritten you'd be able to tell FAR more easily what the correct answer would be by where the (9+3) was placed in the division.

jjkm · 14/11/2011 06:43

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jjkm · 14/11/2011 06:48

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Jux · 14/11/2011 08:57

yup, it's badly written. Handwritten would make clear what you are dividing by. We had a long discussion about it on my course forum and neither the tutors nor moderators could truly decide. It came from another forum as a trick question, as there is not really a right answer because it's so unclear. The original discussion forum ran to something like 24 pages!

nickelbabe · 14/11/2011 11:38

48/2(9+3)

tried that with the given brackets on computer calculator and it came out with 288.
I'm really confused about that, because even if I didn't know "bodmas" by name or description, I would still read it as 48 divided by (2 x (9+3))

head hurts.

It's 2, anyway.

PacificDogwood · 14/11/2011 16:36

288

Order of operations and left to right rule.
I don't understand how there could possibly be debate about it Wink.

jjkm · 14/11/2011 16:46

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nickelbabe · 14/11/2011 17:11

no, the way that it is written it gives 2 - because you do the brackets first.

you can ignore the + completely, because if you do the brackets first, you will end up with a row of multiplications.
288 is technically incorrect if you follow the brackets rule.

jjkm · 14/11/2011 17:43

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jjkm · 14/11/2011 17:44

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