All these people who cry "burglary!'.

[seeker]

It always happens at night and there are never any witnesses. I bet they either left the door open, just inviting people into their houses then shout "burglary!" when someone misreads their signals. Or they've just lost their stuff and say it was a burglary to get other people into trouble. Or some people just do it for the attention. People should take responsibilty for their stuff.

Not sure if this is meant to be a funny thread, and seriously hoping im missing the actual joke.

My house was burgled 2 yrs ago, in the middle of the night,whilst in bed with my children. I had heard sounds comming from our front door but thought i was dreaming, until the noise got more persistent and i sat up, i went downstairs in time to see our 5 lock security front door fly open and two hooded men enter, when i screamed my front door keys were grabbed and they ran out.

To cut a long story short, the police explained they were after my car and so needed to get the keys obviously. Apparently a racket was operating all over london.

For a yr after this incident i have not been able to sleep through the night as i imagine i heard a noise and jump out of bed to go and check, sometimes up to 3 times in the night.

OP et all im really not sure why you would find this funny.

Elephants, I'd believe my friend about either. The police and the courts will be suspicious of any burglary case where the claimant stands to benefit. Lets face it, we are having this discussion because of the DSK case, where the problem is indeed with believing the claimant because the evidence seems to be she was very interested in how much she might benefit. That doesn't always happen, as the roughly 50% (correct? just read it today) conviction rate shows.

OH GOD!

My head hurts.

And nobody ever says that someone who's up on a charge of burglary should have his/her identity concealed because it would be so awful if the accusation should turn out to be false, do they? because so very many people go around making false accusations of burglary?

That's the nub, to me. That's why the metaphor works.

Now either get it, or go away!

only middle class houses that have never been lived in can be classed as having been properly burgled

The metaphor also fails because in the vast majority of burglaries there is no suspect, so no trial, and in all rape claims there is. And I would agree that people like Colin Stagg down to Mr Suspected Burglar should not be named until they are convicted. Didn't we just see how unfair this was with that guy who was suspected of killing Jo Yates?

Also, all my other points which you have not addressed.

absolute nonsense to say there is a suspect in all rape claims. Gail Sherwood didn't know who had attacked her; she knew it was the man who had been stalking her but not who it was.

"But I don't hear many people say that these days, and I've never heard anyone say 'men are animals they can't help but rape the poor things.'"

Don;t you? I do.

I've heard "But he can't help it. He's just a man". What's that all about anyway just a man? Are we meant to believe they are some sort of inferior species with no control over their penis? that's pretty insulting, really.

Ok, 'nearly all rape claims, there is'. Picky. You agree there are problems with it as a metaphor? Please refer to my point that using it as a metaphor actually gives rape claim sceptics a good argument. People do make false burglary claims, and people do blame the victim if they leave their door wide open.

But, MarySue, half the point is that (so far as available statistics show) false claims of burglary are far more common than false claims of rape.

And yet talk of "crying burglary" in the manner of this thread sounds faintly ludicrous while talk of "crying rape" in all the analogous ways is part of the accepted vernacular.

And we aren't having this discussion because of the DSK case. We are having this discussion because of this case and this case and this case and this case and these findings and this delightful chap and the line that rape defendants take in court and case after case after case.

Ooh good link finding, pirate.

It hadn't really occurred to me that this would be about DSK. Just one rapist amongst thousands.

And no one says that leaving your door unlocked sends "mixed messages" to potential burglars, or that it indicates that maybe you weren't actually burgled at all.

If anyone has heard someone say 'he's just a man, he can't help but rape' what can I say? They are a vile idiot. But it's not a common reason for disbelieving a rape claim.

'Yes it is'

No it isn't.

"But I don't hear many people say that these days, and I've never heard anyone say 'men are animals they can't help but rape the poor things.

I think victim-blaming, which is what this thread is all about, amounts to precisely the same thing.

No I don't agree MarySue, I think it is an excellent metaphor.

I actually was burgled through an open ground floor window (it was very small and it hadn't occurred to me someone could get in through it) and not one person including the police ever blamed me or hinted it was my fault.

The fact that people do make false burglary claims makes it an even more poignant metaphor: the point is that even though there are demonstrably many false burglary claims, the default is to treat burglary victims (or 'accusers', since it seems to be the fashion to call rape victims that ) as if they are telling the truth.

When my parents were burgled they didn't even have any evidence to show the police as the burglars had come in through an open window and worn gloves so there were no prints; the police didn't say 'You've got no proof, why should I believe this crime even took place?'; they said 'It must have been a very professional gang' and believed every word of the account even though there were no other witnesses.

Ok StayFrosty, good point. I can only argue that I did say I saw the humour and I waited for ages til I chose to get picky with the metaphor.

Wonderful thread Seeker

MarySue, it's ok to put another POV across

There is always room to hone a metaphor

Out of interest, could you think of a better one ? (not a dig)

I use these boards to crystallise my own thinking

I win a mean argument in RL

Very sorry by the way that Rhubarb0 lost her parrot. I do realise that burglary can be horrific for the victim, losing personal valuable items, and in this case a very beloved pet, and with the potential for personal attack also.

I still think that this is a very good way of making the point however, about how much the law seems to prioritise an owner's right to his/her property over a woman's right to say no when it comes to her own body.

MarySue, I have never heard the counsel defending a burglar, (ok a person accused of being one), coming out with "But he could see the tv from the outside and the window was open, so of course he could have been mistaken and think that it was an invitation to take it. Besides,the owner has known to be giving gifts to other people before". Ridiculous, right?
But discussing short skirts and sex life of the victim is still totally normal in rape cases.

HeavyHeidi, I'd say that's another reason why the metaphor doesn't work. People never consent to being robbed, but there is often that issue with sex/rape. The defence in a rape trial has to establish reasonable doubt - and I would totally agree length of skirt and sexual history should be off-limits. But I don't think many trials collapse or juries acquit because of those reasons, I genuinely think most just cannot be sure the defendant is guilty. If they do acquit for those reasons, fuck those idiots, what can we do? Keep ridiculing those who think like that? Ok, sure.

Anyway, the reason I posted here are that in some ways the metaphor works of course, but other ways it is doesn't - or does but in way that agrees that there are false claims and other cases where people 'blame the victim' - and actually undermines what it is trying to do. Mostly I like a good metaphor, and will pick apart a bad one. In another thread on this subject I put forward a flawed metaphor, and agreed it was flawed when it was pointed out, so, er, there's that too.

AnyFucker, no I can't think of another metaphor but if I do I'll post it. As I said, I already got my fingers burned trying that.