MNHQ here: we need your help - meeting with the Minister for Victims and VAWG

[RhiannonEMumsnet]

Hi there,

As those of you who saw our GE2024 Mumsnet Manifesto will know, two of our policy asks were related to reform of the family courts. We want the new government to ensure that judges in family courts receive regular specialist training on domestic abuse, and we want them to end the presumption of contact in cases with abusive parents. We know this is something that many of you feel very strongly about - in a survey we ran on the topic we found that:

• 85% of you agree that the presumption of parental involvement should not apply in cases where a parent has perpetrated domestic abuse, violence or rape against their child’s other parent.
• 84% of you agree that perpetrators of domestic abuse, violence or rape against their child’s other parent should have their parental responsibility removed.
• 93% of you agree that judges in family courts should receive specialist training on domestic abuse from expert organisations.

Shortly after the election, we wrote to Alex Davies-Jones MP, the new Minister for Victims and Violence against Women and Girls at the Ministry of Justice, to share the results of the survey we ran and call again for reform of the family courts system. We're delighted that she's agreed to meet us next month to talk about this important issue.

We want to use the meeting as a chance to raise your voices, and so if you have experience of the family court system that you would like us to share with the Minister - or anything else related to her responsibilities that you would like us to raise - then please do let us know via this thread.

Thanks,
MNHQ

I don't have anything to add at this point

But am posting to bump for the evening crowd

I absolutely have something to add…

I met my ex on the internet.
we met for the first time on lockdown night of 2020 after 10 days of chatting.
I was love bombed at the start by my 17 year older, twice married farmer in Scotland.
I lived in England.
He used the lockdown to move me in straight away.
i was hooked on his charm.
during the first year he discarded me and hoovered me back up many times. He would accuse me of cheating, I scared him for being a strong woman, that I intimidated him with my looks and he said he felt inferior to me because I had had an interesting and exciting life.
He would cause huge issues for me even wanting to go to the shop, be on the phone etc.
My appearance changed, my hobbies stopped, I hardly saw my friends and family and I became isolated.
I was coerced into having an abortion and promised we would have a baby later in the relationship, just not now and I went through with it, only to be told he never wanted a baby with me.
i had a breakdown, I was a burden on him and he threw me out again and I was living in my car and on friends couches because the house I owned was now being rented out. So I was made homeless.
He managed to hoover me back up again.
He was so insecure he convinced me to put a tracking app onto my phone. It was easier to have it on my phone than put up with him going off it for why I wouldn’t agree to having it. But still I was quizzed on where I was because he was looking where I was all the time.
Then when I was pulling away emotionally he suddenly decided to have a baby, even pulled my coil out himself and wanted to start making a baby straight away.
He sexually abused me with extreme items when he knew I had had a drink.
When I had my baby he was jealous of my baby.
He accused me of being lazy when I had a prolapse and want meant to do anything too physical.
He turned his whole family against me and even tried to convince my best friend I was ‘struggling’ with mental health but I was absolutely ok mentally, just very low about my relationship.
he would gaslight, twist stories and manipulate all the time.
I was coerced into selling my house and business and put all my money in to the tenanted farm in his name and put money into cars he put in his name too and even had my mobile phone contract in his name, disguised as a ‘gift’.
i was never on the tenancy and never even had my own house key and would be locked out regularly as punishment.
I wasn’t allowed to have a proper job and any work I did do was considered an inconvenience to him and his work on the farm because he had to watch our son.
He would take our son illegally on farm machinery, leave him sleeping in machinery and not watch him while he was doing farm work, he’s only two years old now and he did this from birth. He even used to forcefully take my son out with him saying I won’t let him have him but I just didn’t feel it was safe for him on the farm while he was working.
My ex would give my son food pieces too big and would choke him.
My ex was addicted to his mobile phone, and often neglected my son and he’s suffered serious injuries because of this.
If I dare question what he was doing to try stop him harming my child he would accuse me of saying he was a bad dad.
He would put ego before his child’s safety.
I had to get away many times to get a break from the relationship and get Alfie away.
He never provided a penny for my son, I racked up debt for our child and all he needed.
He never took me or our son anywhere, we rarely did anything as a family.

I left my ex in June 2024 after a 4 year relationship of sexual, coercive and financial abuse. And because of safeguarding issues with my son.

I was going to find a home locally but it was hard because there were very little free housing and especially as a single mum.
So I was promised by him that I was going to get the money I had put into the relationship back and I could buy a big motorhome to travel around to visit family and friends and come back to the farm for him to have his time with his son. It was going to be flexible so it worked around farm life etc. And give me flexibility to find the right home.
I went to visit my family for a few days with my son, while my ex sorted this. He flip flopped on his promises.
Inasked him to come visit us, he never showed much care how his son was or provide any money knowing we would be struggling. He knew where I was but didn’t want to visit or even make any arrangement that were sensible. He wanted to have our not yet two year old still breastfeeding a month each! I obviously expressed that was not going to be in our sons best interests.
My phone started going funny so I checked the account and I was now unable to access my own info etc. I asked for my PAC code, he promised to give it but didn’t despite me asking again and again.
At this point I was starting to realise he was stalking me for some reason and I demanded to get this all sorted. To which his reply was we will no longer communicate and we will discuss everything through his solicitors.

He cut me off! So I rang his solicitors to arrange for a friend to collect my dogs as he was not good at looking after them, they were an inconvenience.
I emailed his solicitor that I would not be attending myself for safeguarding reasons.

Luckily a friend and family member had two of them and my cats and all the rest had to go into an emergency shelter while I figured out my next moves.
There was no room at my family house to stay long term so I looked for housing local to them in England because I had literally no one in Scotland. I failed to find housing and still had no money so had to go on benefits.
I heard nothing from my ex for weeks. An English solicitor said to just wait until he makes his first move because if he hasn’t bothered by now he probs won’t do anything but to call back if I need their help. I just felt something bad was going to happen!

Due to being stuck south and now homeless, penniless and with a few clothes and toya we went with for a holiday, we had to go into a women’s refuge. While in the refuge I saw health visitors and went to lots of children’s activities that I was never allowed to go to before, it was amazing for my son. I also found a farm with housing and future job potential in Wales near my family home in England. I was excited and about to start a new life when I received a summons to go to court to have my child taken off me in 48 hours.
With paperwork from a private investigator that supposedly tracked my car, went through my phone numbers to find me. But my ex knew where I was at the beginning, I was at my family home and I even asked him to visit!

so many false accusations were used against me, so damning I was dumbfounded.
I was accused of not being the main carer, that I was unstable, that I was the abuser etc etc…with NO evidence, just a writ based on his words.
I arranged to see the English solicitor in a couple days. When I saw them they couldn’t help me because of Scottish law. So I was suddenly without any representation.
Thankfully I was in contact with a Scottish solicitor for my civil finances claim. I urgently rang them and they were able to get involved for me.
She went to the hearing on my behalf and it was one of the worst outcomes she had ever had and advised me to get up to Scotland NOW as she could not do anything for me while I was in England and the papers were being served for the removal of my son 48 hours after I received them.
So I managed to find a way to get somewhere to stay, I was advised to present myself to homeless Dumfries. So I drove the length of the country and I was put up in a homeless hotel. Then within a couple days I was given a temp homeless accommodation a couple hours away from my ex and my solicitor was able to arrange an emergency hearing to stop the order 24 hours after I was served the papers because I was back in Scotland.

my ex accused me of not having a stable home because I had moved so much, but it was him that had caused all this!
The courts thankfully agreed to let me have residence.
but my ex was now to have him SIGNIFICANTLY and meant I had to now face my abuser many times a week on handovers and he always brought people to intimidate knowing I’d be alone as I had no one.
No authority could help me, social services were not getting involved, women’s aid could only advise, the police had no solid evidence.
I was traumatised.
on handovers he was intimidating and one day nice next nasty. My poor child was so distressed after having so much happiness, stability and growth in confidence over the last two or more months.
My child suffered and still suffers.
The sheriff granted all this on a few words out to the courts first and not once had I been able to defend myself. Surely if the courts had my child’s best interests they would have checked to see how Alfie was, contact authorities to check etc and then make a decision before taking a child off the mother?Just a week to gather info and MY defence would have changed EVERYTHING and my son would be a lot happier boy now.
i even suggested a slow reintroducing back to his dad, with video calls first, a day visit with mum under supervision of a mediator, then a night and then a weekend etc etc, but no, it was so painful to see the confusion and inability in my child to comprehend what was going on! Even if I HAD taken my child without his fathers permission, if my child was happy and safe, this abrupt way of doing this a should have been avoided.

We have now just had the welfare report and hearing.
The welfare reporter was horrific, I was spoken to like a criminal, my experience and abuse was not of interest to him.
This man was deciding the fate of MY child and he was so cold and abusive I had to tell him to stop being so horrible to me. It made me cry, after all the abuse I had suffered to be spoken to like this again by a man.

My ex suddenly admitted to me he can’t cope having my son as much and agreed to everything o suggested to the reporter. I suggested to every other weekend.
It turns out during his reporting with my ex he admitted this to him and my ex was even commended in his report TWICE for being honest!! No acknowledgment anywhere to what I had been through and how well I had handled it all…NOTHING! Further kick in the guts for an abused woman.
The reporter made two suggestions, one of I was living further away my ex was to have my son two weekends in three and if I was closer every other weekend with a Wednesday teatime.
Literally the day before the hearing my ex was changing his mind on agreeing with me and said even though I had moved closer I wasn’t close enough and was basically blackmailing me to move closer to him, my abuser so I could have the access we agreed on before. Still controlling me yet no one sees this!
He must have had some advice from his solicitor when they realised it was not right what he was suggesting and he agreed so when we went to the hearing the Sheriff granted the originally agreed contact.

This is the extent this man went to to abuse me through my child but at no point have I been able to sit down in a court to prove my side. I have police taking me seriously and all the other authorities aware of what’s going on but none of this was presented either.

DISGUSTING!!!!

I still have not been allowed to go back to the home I renovated with my own money to get all my belongings and still being stalked and still he’s been caught recently with my child on farm machinery, but he still gets away with it all!

Thank you. I'll share that, it's so important.

Why has domestic abuse been widened to cover gender identity in many public bodies and charities?

We are seeing increasing examples of safeguarding policies which expand the definition of Honour-Based Abuse to include "identity", suggesting that parents are a danger to their daughters if they don't affirm their declared male or non-binary gender identity. This would also be the case for parents of sons who don't affirm a female or non-binary gender identity. Many parents will be concerned about their child declaring a gender identity that differs from their sex and will want to follow the Cass Report recommendations, instead of affirming the identity.

This expansion and conflation distracts from and diminishes the important purpose of Honour-Based Abuse safeguarding for women and girls in law.

This is so important. Can we please please please not have it become a dumpster fire of a gender thread.

Good luck MN. I hope you're listened to. I've seen so many horrific stories on here over the years.

My question above relates to safeguarding of women and girls. The protection of this category under domestic abuse is important. It fits under "or anything else related to her responsibilities that you would like us to raise"

It's not my intention to distract from the experiences that will be shared here.

I fully agree that it's important and it's great that MN are taking this forward. Good luck to everyone who shares their personal experiences - there will be a lot of awful experiences that really do need exposing to the decision makers in the government 😔💐

I fully agree @BonfireLady - we can’t give women and girls the protection they need if men and their rights are included in the definition of female. The term gender-based violence should be consigned to the bin when discussing how to protect women and girls. I’m delighted that the Minister has agreed to meet with Mumsnet and look forward to reading about her plans for taking the sex-based rights of women and girls forward and the changes that are required within key legal services.

We disagree on almost every point @SirChenjins . But none of that is relevant to the point at hand which is access of abusive spouses (and thus they are abusive parents which I'm sure we do agree on) to children.

Unless that abuse is perpetrated by a man who has decided he conveniently identifies as a woman after he’s been charged with rape or abuse. I’m sure you agree that his crime should not be recorded or reported in the media and courts as ‘she’. Or, that a child or partner should be forced to affirm his new ‘womanly’ identity.

Interested to know why you believe that the protection of women and girls should include the rights of males?

I'm so sorry this happened to you.

No wonder women don't any to have DCs.

Let this be a warning to anyone co registering their dc.

The law should never have been changed to allow unmarried men on BCs automatic PRR.

I'd like to add that men who are convicted of paedophilia/possessing child sexual abuse images/put on the sex offenders register should NOT be able to have contact with their own children and should have their parental rights removed.

I suspect the clumsy way I framed my question here hasn't helped @BarbaraHoward . I just leapt in with the question, without context.

In hindsight, I should have framed it more clearly.

The expansion and bending of sex as a category (as per @SirChenjins 's comment) is preventing women and girls from getting the help that they need, where there are examples of abusers who manipulate the system. There is a thread on MN currently (not in the sex and gender section) from a divorced mum whose ex-husband is pushing for their daughter to be socially transitioned. The mum is concerned in line with the risks raised in the Cass Report. As it stands currently, the law could potentially end up deciding that the mum is a domestic abuser (under Honour-Based Abuse) because she has not affirmed the young teenage, autistic child's declared gender identity but instead is following a watchful waiting approach. From her description of the situation, this father has a history of co-ercion. Thankfully it doesn't sound like the dad is using an interpretation of current law in this way in their case, but what's to stop him doing so if things continue in this trajectory? Recognising that women and girls are a category of sex is imperative when keeping women and girls safe.

Yes, this absolutely should be a given.

Or supervised contact only.

Absolutely agree with this.

Thanks for raising this MNHQ.

Ex was a violent drug addict alcoholic. Repeated beatings some to the point he almost killed me. Violent with DD.

He stopped seeing DD when police and social services got involved after he tried to beat up me and the head of DD's nursery in front of the kids.

We spent 7.5 years in the Family Courts. It was insane. They didn't care about the violence (despite directives to investigate) didn't listen to anything I said and thought ex was a prophet of God.

We had 5 CAFCASS Officers most of whom were fine/good. Unfortunately the idiot was with us for over 5 years. Parliament ordered CAFCASS to apologise for his actions. They did but kept him on the case because he wanted to stay. He refused to speak to either me or DD even when ordered in writing by the court.

It took his retirement and another CAFCASS officer for progress to be made. DD was forced to do overnights causing incredible damage. When he tried to strangle her (again) contact finally stopped.

There was SO MUCH evidence but the judge didn't listen and even rebuked one of my witnesses for being a single parent (she was married).

The damage to DD is lifelong.

My daughter was recently asked if she had a letter of permission off my granddaughters father to take her on holiday(this was on the way back too) they soon shut up when she said he was a paedophile in prison! She's had no end of difficulty because he still has a say. It's ridiculous!

Wow.

She was even told she should carry her birth certificate to avoid any more confusion!

Any violence and contact should be supervised. The courts wouldn't hesitate under other circumstances but when it's the father they don't care what children suffer, father's rights are prioritised

This is obviously not something that could be solved overnight but what are they proposing to change the attitude of some men and boys and cultures in some workplaces?

We see a lot of teachers posting on here about how some male pupils speak to them or their female peers with complete disrespect and misogyny. We also see (as I have - public sector worker) a lot of misogyny still at play at work and then also the attitude from men of ‘well I’ve never seen it’ as though it’s not to be taken seriously, or it’s something made up or exaggerated by women to vilify men.

I personally think the hatred towards women and girls seems to be getting worse, possibly fuelled by the internet and social media, so my question is how do they even begin to tackle this attitude and culture that seems to be seeping into every stage of life (work, school etc)

Hi @RhiannonEMumsnet could you please ask the minister to look into the use of parental alienation claims used in the crts by abusive men towards their children's mothers.
The science and evidence for parental alienation is highly contested and there is an alarming correlation between men being accused/found guilty of domestic abuse and claims of parental alienation. When children don't want to spend time with their abusive parent this is often used as proof of PA instead of being seen as the obvious result of the psychological harm caused to the children by the abusive behaviour of the father.
I know a woman who was beaten so badly by her ex infront of their children that she was in hospital for more than a week, and he was found guilty of GBH (he got a suspended sentence and a dv course😡). Yet when the children refused to see their father and said they were scared of him their mother was accused and found to have alienated their father. Quite how anyone can think that a child who has witnessed their father beat their mother so badly that she was hospitalised would want to spend time with him or not be terrified of him is beyond belief but it happens all to often.

Carcass need and independent review, especially around DV. And DV training including manipulations of perpatrators.

I have seen some frankly shocking and biased reports in the past, and some of the experiences of mothers on here is frankly shocking.