MNHQ here: we need your help - meeting with the Minister for Victims and VAWG

[RhiannonEMumsnet]

Hi there,

As those of you who saw our GE2024 Mumsnet Manifesto will know, two of our policy asks were related to reform of the family courts. We want the new government to ensure that judges in family courts receive regular specialist training on domestic abuse, and we want them to end the presumption of contact in cases with abusive parents. We know this is something that many of you feel very strongly about - in a survey we ran on the topic we found that:

• 85% of you agree that the presumption of parental involvement should not apply in cases where a parent has perpetrated domestic abuse, violence or rape against their child’s other parent.
• 84% of you agree that perpetrators of domestic abuse, violence or rape against their child’s other parent should have their parental responsibility removed.
• 93% of you agree that judges in family courts should receive specialist training on domestic abuse from expert organisations.

Shortly after the election, we wrote to Alex Davies-Jones MP, the new Minister for Victims and Violence against Women and Girls at the Ministry of Justice, to share the results of the survey we ran and call again for reform of the family courts system. We're delighted that she's agreed to meet us next month to talk about this important issue.

We want to use the meeting as a chance to raise your voices, and so if you have experience of the family court system that you would like us to share with the Minister - or anything else related to her responsibilities that you would like us to raise - then please do let us know via this thread.

Thanks,
MNHQ

I have experience of the family court/ CAFCASS as a safeguarded teen not a mother. The judge banned all in person contact with my father thankfully (in part due to police evidence) but my Cafcass officers were terrible. Please tell the Minister:
1- Child and female partners / victims of abuse by trans identified men have now been threatened by police we will be criminalised if we don't submit to our father's domestic abuse/ coercive control etc - which reflects training of courts, social workers, judges etc by trans groups. https://www.college.police.uk/app/major-investigation-and-public-protection/domestic-abuse/understanding-risk-and-vulnerability-context-domestic-abuse
Police are central to protecting many women/ children whose cases reach the family court. Yet men are being given a free pass to abuse by the police if they say they are women. This gaslighting and enabling of abuse of female family victims for the benefit of male offenders is misogyny and goes against the Feb 24 IOPC domestic abuse guidance telling police to stop blaming women/ girls for their own abuse.

2- No families of men who say they are women were consulted by the CPS or CoP at all in writing their DARVO guidance- only trans lobbyists.Victim evidence links here- not even considered by the CoP:
childrenoftransitioners.org/2021/09/25/not-shutting-up/
Government are already aware of these issues:
childrenoftransitioners.org/2021/02/27/gra-inquiry-submission/
https://transcrimeuk.com/

• a documentary of families’ experience of domestic abuse by men who say they are trans called ‘Through the Looking Glass’ here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?si=e6-O3cpXIV03qzI2&v=Frffv2sB8zE&feature=youtu.be https://childrenoftransitioners.org/2022/09/03/the-police-have-been-captured/ experience of female victims court experience here: childrenoftransitioners.org/2021/12/28/the-judges-bench-book/

• a news report here:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-13808461/trans-widows-heartbreak-transgender-husbands.html

• a conference link here:

https://childrenoftransitioners.org/2024/10/11/genspect/ https://policyexchange.org.uk/publication/the-crown-prosecution-services-approach-to-transgenderism/ and we know census and prison sex offender data also reflects the increased risks of offending against women and children when men say they are trans.

3- many child victims are terrified to report abuse by dads due to both love and fear, worsened as a result of trans lobby groups training Cafcass, police, NSPCC, Childline, judges etc to pretend it is reality/ women and girls who are the abusers. What action will she take to withdraw the CoP/CPS new, abusive guidance linked above, address ideological capture and misogyny within the courts, police and social services and ensure family victims can come forward, are listened to and protected? (The CPS draft guidance in the last link above even tried to let sex offenders off totally if they say they are trans!)

4- much abuse support is now only available to female victims who can pretend men are women. 'Women's' support groups remain open to trans identified men (even though most victims are women)
eg Cameron Downing- ‘A male sexual predator who harboured “hostility towards women” accessed services at a controversial “trans-inclusive” female rape crisis centre’ https://archive.ph/LOXZ9.
so some women self exclude and are not in the stats and then TRA providers say single sex services aren't needed The Domestic Abuse Commissionner won't act on this. What will Ms Davies do to ensure all victims can access help?https://childrenoftransitioners.org/2024/04/13/the-trans-lobby-has-destroyed-provision-for-female-abuse-victims-in-bristol-and-elsewhere-and-will-do-the-same-for-the-victims-bill/

5- the College of Police DARVO domestic abuse guidance above not only ignores the sex based reality of domestic abuse , but also signposts to a document produced by the Scottish Transgender Alliance , which says any refusal by women/girls to submit to the demands of men/fathers/husbands who say they are women as ‘transphobic'. Scottish Trans Alliance is a misogynistic group who have campaigned for years for unconsenting women/girls to be forced to get undressed in front of male strangers, and for all single sex services (including single sex abuse domestic abuse/ rape support for female victims) to be ended altogether (so women/girls who need them and don't believe in 'gender identity' are excluded everywhere), links here:
https://womansplaceuk.org/2018/06/25/references-to-removal-of-single-sex-exemptions/
How can you address VAWG and ensure the family courts protect child/ partner victims of male abuse when female victims are silenced and threatened even by the police and courts who should help us, if we dare speak up?

Like another poster has said, this also mirrors what my mum and I experienced with cafcass. I was so scared of him (still am), regardless of his clothing choices.

@iwouldnthavebelievedit
'Cafcass need thorough training on post separation abuse and coercive control of mothers and children. the Cafcass advisor we have has no concept of this and refers to 'high conflict'. apparently i am stopping my children having g a normal relationship with their father by having a police and DV service advised safety plan for drop off and pick up.'

@unsync I have been saying this for a long time, it is so true that in this day and age and with accessibility to, sometimes quite extreme porn, by increasingly younger teens, normalising things like strangulation in sex...the need is overwhelming for intervention in schools.

I have friends in the judiciary who are shocked when dealing with cases of teen relationships with serious abuse including rape and coercive control on the rise (sometimes right under the noses of engaged parents). This needs early education and intervention. It's too late after the fact.

Why are women (and, granted in smaller numbers but still relevant, men) only becoming aware of the Freedom Programme after they have escaped abuse?!

People have been calling for relevant financial education in schools for years to help our children become better equipped for this world but violence against women and girls is far more relevant and we have to question why, as a society, we are permitting our young men to grow up in increasing numbers with such a disrespect, dare I say hatred, for women and girls.

I know it is not simple, but early intervention and potentially prevention must surely be a primary focus.

You say not MOJ territory but wasn't Starmer talking about prevention being a focus in health recently...don't know how he will make that happen to be frank but this is an easy one compared to that. Collaboration between judiciary, DfE and existing bodies including third sector, who are extremely motivated, makes this a bit of a no brainer IMHO.

@mnhq I would also suggest inviting Dr Jessica Taylor, CEO Victim Focus to be part of this in questioning the minister. The two people I have suggested be invited are strong advocates for women and girls on this subject, particularly in the family court.

@RhiannonEMumsnet

Many people are not aware of this, but the test in criminal rape cases is not whether she ( the victim) did or did not consent. The test is should he ( the rapist) have known he did not have consent. It is a question to the jury, that a reasonable person should have known he did not have consent.

That is why the police, the CPS, and ultimately the court allow the victims life, phone, dressing habits and lifestyle are put under intense scrutiny, from the beginning of a rape report.

So as we have seen in recent posts about this

THIS FUNDAMENTALLY HAS TO CHANGE.

The only way this can happen is if acts of sexual violence are dealt with in a different way. So the presumption of consent is removed. And it is not a trial by jury.

I would also propose Dr Charlotte Proudman being part of this exercise. CP is a formidable advocate for women’s rights and been instructed o many high profile cases

Cafcass agreed that he was "a little odd" but didn't look further into this despite my telling them I was worried about his manipulation of the children.
The judge addressed us both like slightly naughty children.
My son and daughter both suffered emotional trauma at his hands. He used to tell them that "Mummy's home is like a prison" which meant I had some kind of rules unlike his place.

The group 'For women Scotland' have just published this report which the minister will find illuminating, as it explains better than I can!

forwomen.scot/14/10/2024/abused-or-abuser/

Chariothorses

The case of Sara Sharif is the saddest example of the horrific stories that you see on mumsnet coming to the worse possible conclusion. I hope, but don't expect, that this case is the wale up call that our ridiculously biased court system needs. How are children ending up with abusers under the completely fake diagnosis of parental alienation?

Whichever court handed Sara to her abusers and killers, we need a most thorough examination of how and why. Her suffering is unbearable:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13958665/sara-sharif-burned-tied-bite-marks-murder-trial.html

How can CAFCASS and SS be so utterly clueless? How can they feel so comfortable leaving a child in such dangerous circumstances?

The whole principle at present is that children are entitled to a relationship with their Father. This takes into account nothing from the children's side- how can it be better for a child to spend time with a man who frightens them, emotionally abuses them and who sometimes actively encourages them to dislike their Mother as revenge for her leaving. If a man is abusive he should forgo the right to see his children alone

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/sep/08/sara-sharif-month-unanswered-questions-about-death

Indeed. The family court put Sara into this monster's hands.

"When the couple separated in 2015, their two children initially lived with Olga but in 2019 the family court decided that they should live with their father.

Olga still had equal rights to see the children but said that it became increasingly difficult to maintain this over time."

Yes. What's needed is accountability.

The courts endangered this child. They are complicit.

@Panic123 Proudman makes no secret of the fact she thinks men should enter womens spaces and men should be housed in womens prisons, so she'd be the last person I'd think of. She's more a mens rights activist imo. Too many of these women put on a show of being for 'womens' rights, but they're not when they say put violent men in with women in prison.

Thank you for sharing. The points made in this brilliantly written article are parallel to what I raised on this thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/mumsnet_campaigns/5180070-mnhq-here-we-need-your-help-meeting-with-the-minister-for-victims-and-vawg?reply=138795527&utm_campaign=reply&utm_medium=share

In the case of gender questioning children, a parent who is concerned about the impact of gender identity belief on their child could be framed as an abuser (for not affirming a gender identity or for raising concerns about possible root causes for a child's gender identity exploration) in much the same way as is described in the article. Obviously the parent isn't being abused by the child here but the net effect is the same in that domestic abuse as a category has been widened to view the child as a victim of (parental) domestic abuse. The most likely way that this would manifest is that a parent's "failure to support" gender identity exploration would be framed as honour-based abuse, where there is no clear standard for how a parent might "demonstrate" the "abuse". This distracts from true honour-based abuse, where the majority of that net effect is on girls.

Although this is illuminating it is a snap shot of time, which doesn't in any way explain the history of how this was able to happen.

ie dating back to when the backlash against Women's Liberation and universities changed women's studies to gender studies.

And everything since then which this thread doesn't have space for.

Picking a group as thought they made it happen does not address the issue that those with power and decision making enabled it.

ie there were and still are existing laws that mean none of this should have happened. But politicians, funders, charity scrutinisers, other women's groups colluded with it.

It is abour how the underlying structure of male power, rights creates the situation that allows queer activists to present something that is at its heart anti woman. There would be no TRAs if the MRAs weren't still the ultimate power group.

How else is it possible that the current Government has both male and female members who believe a man can be a woman?

Good luck with this very important campaign, Mumsnet! Thank you for taking up the cause of VAWG.

Bumping for further additions

when mn do question campaigns like this wouldn’t it be a good idea to pin it to main active threads list (like those damn smell all the smells or specsaver advert thread-title-like posts?

given the importance of the subject

and do ask if the minister if they are going to have a look down the back of the sofa for the M they are missing from the VAWG title they have there

if you want to tie it to an advert it’s as impt as the lens from a set of specs in order to see the issue clearly

Hi everyone,

Thanks so much for all your input, especially to those of you who have shared your own experiences of the system. We'll share an update once the meeting has taken place.

Thanks,
MNHQ

Thanks Rhiannon, and to MN for doing this.

Excellent - especially after yesterday

Hi all,
Thanks again for all your input ahead of this meeting. As is often the case with Ministerial diaries, it was pushed back a couple of times (hence the delay in updating the thread) but we did sit down with Alex Davies-Jones just before Christmas, and we were able to raise many of the points you made, particularly with regards to parental alienation, the presumption of contact and CAFCASS.

We didn’t get explicit answers on everything (nor would we expect to!) but I wanted to share a few things that I thought were encouraging. First up, the government is working on a package of family court reforms - and Alex assured us presumption of contact would be looked at as part of this, as well as work to dispel the myths around parental alienation. She acknowledged the importance of making sure CAFCASS reforms are properly monitored and implemented, and she has met with Lord Ponsonby, who is the relevant Minister, to discuss CAFCASS.

Alex was also very clear that she valued hearing the input and experiences of Mumsnet users with regards to her brief, and she’s keen to hear from us on a regular basis on anything relevant. If there’s anything in particular you think we should be raising then please do let us know - you can post on the thread or email [email protected]. And to receive all our campaign updates, you can sign up to our campaigns newsletter here.
Thanks,
Justine

Thanks so much, @JustineMumsnet !

I have felt compelled to campaign on this issue (parental alienation, abuse), but realised that I can't say one word publicly until my daughter is grown without risking serious reprisals (potentially in family court itself). So grateful that this forum exists so that I don't have to be totally silenced.