Mega survey of UK parents shows unaffordability of childcare

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello

Over the past month or so we've been assailing you all with links to a huge survey of parents in the UK asking about their experiences of using childcare. Now the results are in - 20,000 responses from parents on MN as well as Pregnant then Screwed, Gingerbread, the TUC, the Fawcett Society, the Women's Budget Group, the Fatherhood Institute, Black Mums Upfront, Mother Pukka and a few others - and they show:

96% of British parents say the government isn’t supporting them enough with childcare

97% said that UK childcare is too expensive (83% said that it is ‘much’ too expensive)

One third (33%) of parents using childcare say their childcare payments are bigger than their rent or mortgage

40% (and 53% of parents under 30) say childcare costs mean they don’t spend as much time together as a family as they’d like, because of the need to work longer hours or do shift work

28% (and 40% of single parents) say they’ve had to use credit cards or credit arrangements to pay for essential items, as a direct result of childcare costs, and 12% (34% of those with a household income of less than £20,000) say they’ve had to cut back on essential items, including food and housing

82% of mothers (and 56% of fathers) say ‘I think I would have attained more seniority in my work, or earned more, if I had not had childcare considerations’

16% of mothers, and 42% of fathers, say childcare responsibilities have not affected their seniority at work


Unsurprisingly, parents are willing to consider radical alternatives to the current mess:


94% of all parents believe that subsidised childcare should start from the end of paid maternity leave, and 90% think there should be taxpayer-funded subsidised childcare from when a child is 9 months old

90% of all parents support at least three months of ‘use-it-or-lose-it’ parental leave for fathers, paid at at least minimum wage level

84% support a duty on large employers to provide subsidised childcare

83% support universal free childcare (covering the full working day, for all pre-school children and all children with ongoing Health and Social Care needs), funded by the taxpayer

82% support tax-funded subsidised childcare covering the full working day, for all pre-school children, with subsidy levels dependent on household income

59% support a Universal Basic Income for all UK adults.

You can find out more here and read the Guardian's coverage today here.

Let us know what you think!

Thanks
MNHQ

[Gothichouse40]

Not surprised, nothing has changed since the 80s, childcare was expensive then and is expensive now.

[nannynick]

Where would the money come from to pay for higher subsidies - would people support a rise in Income Tax, VAT, or maybe this is Care it comes under the NI levy?

Will subsidies result in less childcare choice with only really large providers being able to balance the books? Do we want nurseries with 200+ children in them, with a small number of staff who are under paid for the work they due because the subsidy does not cover the real cost of providing the care?

Could tax reliefs for care providers help keep costs down - no business rates for example, free bin collection by local council, no corporation tax, reduced employers NI. The biggest cost of a childcare provider is staff and the other overheads.

[Teaandcakeordeath83]

My childcare bill is £1000pcm for three children- 1 to go all day for three days and the other 2 to go to breakfast club/ after school. I work part time because full time would bankrupt me. I was successful in getting a more senior position- it was full time only, no flexibility in hours or shift pattern. I couldn't afford to take it as I'd have "earned" -£100 pcm. MINUS money. Insanity. Our childcare bill is 1.3 times our rent.

[hoomans]

I'm not at all surprised to be honest. Being able to afford childcare to actually be able to go to work is seen as almost a 'luxury' in this country, a luxury to be able to work! I think something needs to be done and surely the government would benefit from the money coming back in increased national insurance and income tax contributions? I also think that the free 15 hours childcare that is given at two years old to families where neither parent is in work should be extended to those who are in work too.

[DrinkFeckArseBrick]

I'd support a tax rise to pay for this but I doubt most people in the UK would.

I think it would have a positive impact on womens success in the workplace.

However it would need to be fair to the childcare providers as well. Currently they get less than the actual cost of running their business from the government so need to run at a loss or make up charges for lunches etc. Many of them are on their knees. It would need to be fair to them and there would need to be time to train and recruit staff and open new premises if there was going to be a big increase in numbers of children attending

[LittleRedYoshi]

My childcare bill is in excess of £2000 and several hundred pounds a month more than my take home pay. Fortunately DH earns enough for us to be able to do this, so I can keep my career going until our childcare costs reduce.

I'm significantly underpaid compared to the market for my role and would like to change jobs, but can't because I work part time and no new employer will agree to that. Working full time would make our financial situation even worse.

[Xdecd]

My bill for one child is over £1000 per month even after claiming everything we're entitled to (we live in the SE so childcare is very expensive). For me the issue is that although I'm almost full time we're not a high earning household, we're on under 40k between two adults. I do feel strongly that childcare should be more subsidised for those on lower incomes. We'd like another child and if we do I will give up work not because I want to but because childcare would cost more than I earn.

[CustardCreamm]

I pay £1,200 per month for my twins' nursery, 3 days per week. I never thought I would have to claim Universal Credit to help pay towards their fees, but here we are. Without that it would be pointless me going back to work.

[thingsarelookingup]

For those saying the subsidy would leave childcare providers out of pocket it would be better for the Government to fund in dollars not hours to stop this. For example in Australia the Government pays 50% of childcare costs up to a maximum of about $12 000 per child per year. For full time childcare in a major city this doesn't turn out to actually be 50% but as a parent you just make up the extra yourself rather than the provider being out of pocket.

[thecatsthecats]

I think at least part of the answer is not in paid childcare but in the normalisation of shorter hours without it affecting status or FT pay.

Employers have a big need to break their mindsets here. I had a member of staff who joined us on twenty hours, and I steadily raised her up to a senior position as and when she had the will for it. She's now second in command, and she did it at a pace she was comfortable with.

Instead of getting some mediocre person who was available full time, I got what a fantastically motivated woman was able to give me in terms of time and effort. Same with the other staff - flexibility was available to everyone, and as a result, staff came energised and ready to use their time well, rather than being handcuffed to their desks miserably worrying about their home responsibilities.

[Bunnycat101]

thecatsthecats I couldn’t agree more. I think childcare is one issue but life would be much better for many families if there was more acceptance of flexible or part-time working. I don’t think it is necessarily a good thing for small children to be in nursery all the time but many people don’t have a choice. I personally found 3 days the best balance but it was too detrimental to my career.

[SmashingBlouson]

There are many issues here - housing is more expensive as well as childcare, and attitudes of employers are not family friendly. Many claim to be flexible, but they aren't. They often have the attitude that it is the other parent that doesn't work for them that should be flexible. They are not aware that many families are dual income families now, so with that comes some inconveniences to them when their staff members have to work around the needs of their children. I think this is even more of an issue for men's employers - it is always assumed that the women adapts their schedule to suit childcare needs.

The affordability of both housing and childcare forces both parents into full time work, whether they want to or not, or for some, takes that choice away completely as they are working to lose money. It is annoying that the consensus in the media is that modern families spend unnecessary money on finance cars and avocados - I don't know any people like this and it is convenient to keep this perception out there, so the real issues of unaffordable childcare and housing don't need to be dealt with.

Other countries seem to manage to provide low cost childcare and housing, but our government is falling way short of the mark. They just don't seem to join all of the dots to see that a combination of issues makes family life highly stressful and unaffordable. Either that, or they don't care, which I suspect is the case.

[vickyc90]

I wouldn't mind a small tax rise to pay for universal childcare for 1st children however I think that should be the limits. We have one child because that's what we can afford why should everyone else subsidies someone choice to have multiple

[HipHoppy]

I live in London and my local nurseries are £95-105 per day.

This means over £2,000 per month for one child.

Everyone I know pays similar. It’s extraordinary.

Why can I buy a car at a heavily reduced cost via salary sacrifice, but my entire childcare bill comes out of taxed earnings? It makes zero sense.

[HunterHearstHelmsley]

I wouldn't be happy to pay any more tax or NI for childcare. I think the majority would feel this way.

More options for childcare pre tax would be reasonable, I think.

[RickJames]

I know in Germany that a lot of the money for Kindergartens comes from 'church tax', which is a sort of enforced tithing that is deducted direct from wages like government tax. This means that a lot of childcare is run by dioceses although you don't have to be in that religion to attend.

I'm not sure many Brits would be happy with church taxes. Basically if you want to get out of paying you have to write to the Bishop/ Diocese and say you are not a believer anymore, its quite odd to me but Germans are used to it.

Unfortunately for children/ parents more people are opting out these days and I read that fees would be going up to cope with the shortfall. It was brilliant paying 165€ a month for fulltime Kindergarten, aged 4-6 when DS was small though. If I remember rightly it was about 250€ a month when he was 2-3 and went until 1pm - little ones need higher staff ratios.

I'm rambling.. but what im basically saying is its cheaper here because its not private business. Taxes/ donations pay for the big religious groups and charities to run childcare as not for profit. Its a totally different set up.

[eeyore228]

Childcare is expensive but then how do we decide how to fund it? There are many jobs that don't offer the luxury of the flexibility we want. We have shortages in a few areas and by deciding they should be more flexible can have an impact. Meanwhile, some are happy to have tax rise to help pay for their children. How many children should have childcare subsidised? If you choose to have 1, 2, 3 or more children that had a massive impact on your wage. I say this as a parent who stopped at two....why?...because I couldn't afford a bigger home and I couldn't afford the I crease in childcare. So why should I pay more tax for someone who chose to have 3, 4 or however many children when I stopped because I simply couldn't? I can't imagine those without would be happy at a tax rise either. We have enough to pay out for and we haven't even felt the repercussions of the covid bill and furlough etc, NI is due to increase as well.

[BroccoliSprout]

Imo it’s a false economy not to fund childcare. My inability to work while my child is preschool age will have long term effects on my employability and salary which will end up costing the government in benefits, both now and later in my life. If I’d had free childcare I’d have been able to work while my child was preschool age and would have paid tax on my earnings, then would have been in a better position to continue earning and paying tax and pension later on.

[BroccoliSprout]

Being able to afford childcare to actually be able to go to work is seen as almost a 'luxury' in this country
In order to cover childcare for one child, transport to work, and clothes etc to look smart, I calculated I’d need to earn £17k. That’s just to break even without actually putting any money in my pocket. If I had two kids that needed childcare I’d need to earn closer to £35k to break even. That’s assuming I don’t pay any bills because my partner covers them all. No wonder so many women (and it is mostly women) find its not worthwhile going to work until the kids start school. But me sitting at home on my butt not working probably costs the government more than offering free childcare would have.

[Kpo58]

Either the government will ignore this issue, give us 3 more hours per year or bankrupt the remaining nurseries. I wish that I had faith in any party to sort this issue out.

[Phineyj]

It would be fairly straightforward to make childcare tax deductible. It's a work expense!

[TheRebelle]

My childcare bill for one child in nursery four full days and one in wraparound care four days is more than double my mortgage payment.

[Isis1981uk]

Yep, at it's peak I was paying £1100 a month for one child. And that was the cheapest nursery near me! We deliberately had a 4 year age gap between our kids so they wouldn't both be in nursery at the same time! For the total of 7 years we used a nursery, I estimated that we spent in the region of £90-100,000 on childcare! Our joint income was under £60,000 a year so that was a huge amount!

[faelavie]

If I didn't have my mum to look after my son for me while me and my husband go to work, we'd be totally up s**t creek without a paddle.

[PalmarisLongus]

I love in a town where there are 2 big main child care providers that collect from daughter's school.
They run 8am till 5.30pm Monday to Friday and they charge roughly 5per hour (snacks and food on top of that)

So I can realistically work 8.30am -5pm Monday - Friday. Which is fine... If you're an office worker...
There are many many jobs that fall outside of those hours. Retail want weekend workers and evenings, pubs are no go, any job doing continental shifts (6-2, 2-10, 10-6)
Any job that has rotating shoft patterns
Any job with nights or weekends.

So on and so on.

There's even office jobs that start at 8 or finish at 5.30 leaving me unable to realistically do them.

So it's not just the cost of the childcare, but the hours they serve too. As UK seem to have adopted a more of a mixed schedule of working, the days of 9-5 seem gone tbh, the childcare doesn't seem to have changed with it.