Child Maintenance Service users - step this way please! MNHQ here

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello

As a part of our campaign with Gingerbread and the Good Law Project to Fix the CMS, we wanted to flag up that the National Audit Office is asking CMS users to fill in this consultation about their experiences.

The NAO is conducting a 'value for money' review of the CMS to find out whether it's meeting its objectives and providing good service, so please do fill in the consultation if you're a CMS user.

[POST EDITED BY MNHQ TO ADD: The NAO has been in touch with the following:

"Thank you also to those who have pointed out that the options we have provided for parents to explain their involvement with the Child Maintenance Service are not clear. Please accept our apologies. In particular, people have pointed out that respondents cannot identify as being entitled to child maintenance but not receiving it, or identify as a parent who is obliged to pay child maintenance but isn’t."

"If you should be receiving child maintenance but are not, please select the option of being ‘A person with main care responsibilities (receiving child maintenance)’. You will be able to tell us later in the survey that you are not receiving the maintenance you are entitled to."

"If you are a parent who is supposed to be paying child maintenance but are not, please select the option of being ‘A person without main care responsibilities (paying child maintenance)’. You will be able to tell us later in the consultation that you are not paying the child maintenance you owe."

"We will also read and use contributions from parents that have already used the “other” category."

"We can’t make changes to the consultation itself, because that would make it difficult to interpret the results we have collected so far. However, we have added additional help text to the survey to make it clearer."]

In addition, Gingerbread have asked whether any CMS users have recent experience of the CMS writing off large sums owed by non-resident parents. If that's happened to you in the last few months we'd like to hear about it.

Thanks
MNHQ

PS If you'd like to be kept up to date with all Mumsnet's campaigning activity and actions, please sign up to our email list here.

£4.5k owing here. This is how it goes:

1. Ex claims benefits and works as a builder cash in hand - £7pw (no payment on arrears). CMS take 12 weeks to get a attachment of benefit and a further 6-9 weeks for a payment to be deducted.
2. Ex forced by DSS to get a job. He still does cash in hand work on top of the lowest paying job he can find. Doesn't inform CMS. After 3 months of non payment (the AOE from his benefits), the CMS finally listen to me and search HMRC for his PAYE records because he won't communicate with them. 40% of his income is then deducted at source. This takes a further 12-16 weeks and then another 8 weeks for the payment to come from his employers. so thats aprox 36 weeks without a payment.
3. Ex makes one payment, quits job, goes back on benefits and carries on working cash in hand.

And so we continue........

Lets also add in the time his employers attempted to defraud the CMS and deducted but withheld 13 MONTHS of payments from over 10,000 NRPs and were taken to court (loved that one eventually, I got £7k appear in my bank account when I was at my Mum's caravan with the kids - I'd literally gone with £100 for the week!).
Lets also remember the time they sent a letter enveloped addressed to me that was actually for him showing his current address. And then sent a letter to him for me - showing MY address (the man served a sentence for trying to kill me and I'd kept our whereabouts safe for over six years at that point).

Oh, I remember this one - DD2 (at 15) went to live with my Mother (who shall hereforth be known as the Witch Troll from Hell - she really is, I've been NC for years now). As it was supposed to be a short term thing we agreed £ for DD between us and I said I'd send over her CB and any CMS payments (completely legal for short term). She refused to believe I hadn't had any payments from the CMS and launched her own claim, claiming from both of us. Stupid, and vindictive but thats who she is. The CMS then calculated my portion from the two weeks I'd worked over an additional 40 hours of overtime (at double time), ending up working out that I needed to pay more than my average monthly salary every month. AND they put in an immediate AOE so my next paycheck was literally about £100 for the month!!

Eventually got that sorted, it took almost a year because there was only one person with the password to the case file apparently and the upshot was that my Mum now still owes me a huge sum. Because they've already paid it out to her, I've no chance of getting it back. And she told DD2 I'd never paid a penny (loved it when my grown up DD showed her my wage slips).

Now - I'm being chased by the CMS as they are saying I owe them £4,892.55 for DS who, funnily enough lives with me, has always lived with me and weirdly (lol) £4,892.55 is the exact sum that HE owes Me for DS.

And he's gone back on benefits again.........

@Sam0207

Why didn’t you report him for benefit fraud?

@Sam0207

£4.5k owing here. This is how it goes:

1. Ex claims benefits and works as a builder cash in hand - £7pw (no payment on arrears). CMS take 12 weeks to get a attachment of benefit and a further 6-9 weeks for a payment to be deducted.
2. Ex forced by DSS to get a job. He still does cash in hand work on top of the lowest paying job he can find. Doesn't inform CMS. After 3 months of non payment (the AOE from his benefits), the CMS finally listen to me and search HMRC for his PAYE records because he won't communicate with them. 40% of his income is then deducted at source. This takes a further 12-16 weeks and then another 8 weeks for the payment to come from his employers. so thats aprox 36 weeks without a payment.
3. Ex makes one payment, quits job, goes back on benefits and carries on working cash in hand.

And so we continue........

Lets also add in the time his employers attempted to defraud the CMS and deducted but withheld 13 MONTHS of payments from over 10,000 NRPs and were taken to court (loved that one eventually, I got £7k appear in my bank account when I was at my Mum's caravan with the kids - I'd literally gone with £100 for the week!).
Lets also remember the time they sent a letter enveloped addressed to me that was actually for him showing his current address. And then sent a letter to him for me - showing MY address (the man served a sentence for trying to kill me and I'd kept our whereabouts safe for over six years at that point).

Oh, I remember this one - DD2 (at 15) went to live with my Mother (who shall hereforth be known as the Witch Troll from Hell - she really is, I've been NC for years now). As it was supposed to be a short term thing we agreed £ for DD between us and I said I'd send over her CB and any CMS payments (completely legal for short term). She refused to believe I hadn't had any payments from the CMS and launched her own claim, claiming from both of us. Stupid, and vindictive but thats who she is. The CMS then calculated my portion from the two weeks I'd worked over an additional 40 hours of overtime (at double time), ending up working out that I needed to pay more than my average monthly salary every month. AND they put in an immediate AOE so my next paycheck was literally about £100 for the month!!

Eventually got that sorted, it took almost a year because there was only one person with the password to the case file apparently and the upshot was that my Mum now still owes me a huge sum. Because they've already paid it out to her, I've no chance of getting it back. And she told DD2 I'd never paid a penny (loved it when my grown up DD showed her my wage slips).

Now - I'm being chased by the CMS as they are saying I owe them £4,892.55 for DS who, funnily enough lives with me, has always lived with me and weirdly (lol) £4,892.55 is the exact sum that HE owes Me for DS.

And he's gone back on benefits again.........

So confused

Why did your dd go and live with such a vile woman?
Why do you pay Child maintenance for ds? To whom are you meant to be paying?

@Sometimesfraught82
I did, tax and benefit fraud. We've been NC for years but I have one friend who snuck into his FB friends and tells me if he posts anything about working or jobs - the man is quite stupid and advertises himself on FB.
I've no way of knowing how the fraud case went/is going because of the NC. TBH I don't really care.

I also reported the Witch Troll as she claimed CB (and CMS) for DD for the YEAR that DD was in hospital (DDs short term stay with grandparents didn't end up being so short).

Why did you daughter go and live with her?
Why you holidaying with her?
To whom are you meant to be paying CM?

I’m not questioning the validity of what you’re saying

I’m just pointing out that it’s very unclear.

I find that If you want to engage successfully with a government body - you need to be clear, succinct and not full of high emotion and drama. They want FACTS and clearly presented

@Sometimesfraught82 sorry I didn't see your other post.

Why did your dd go and live with such a vile woman?

Far too long a story to go into here. DD has complex and life threatening mental health problems and at the time my choice was to let her go to the Witch Troll or watch her try to kill herself again. Her MH was made significantly worse by the WT and her narcissistic, gaslighting, coercive controlling behaviour. I actually got an apology from the social worker who forced the "respite". DD was 14 at the time and hasn't spoken a word to me in eight years.

Why do you pay Child maintenance for ds? To whom are you meant to be paying?

I'm not meant to be paying anything. My ex owes the £4,892.55 to me in unpaid maintenance for DS but the CMS have got their files mixed up and are trying to chase Me for the money HE owes me. You couldn't make it up.

Wouldn't it be amazing if at some point in the not too distant future thousands and thousands of women ended up getting compensation (ie the actual money owed) because CMS became the next PPI scandal?

Anyway, I count myself lucky that I have not so far had such a terrible time as some of you, however I have recently had my children's money reduced because their Dad CHOSE to have another child (ya know, knowing full well he already had 2 to support and what that involves). He has also told me he plans to become a full time student soon so I will no longer receive anything. I would quite like to become a student too, but I can't, because I have children to support.

Those of you who say about the financial consent order starting CM payments, these are only enforceable for 12 months, after which the NRP can go to the CMS and ask for them to work out how much they should be paying according to them (ie much much less usually!)

@wineandsunshine

It's ridiculous isn't it? Maybe it happens a lot.

I have messaged them again asking who these people are and why have they sent me the wrong information, it's worrying that that they can do this.

If they can't respond to the right person which is pretty simple then no wonder nothing else gets done.

@Aerisash it really is.

If you don't pay council tax you are put in prison. If you don't pay child maintenance nothing happens.

The whole system is an absolute joke.

Like others have said my ex is now self employed so I have no way to ‘make’ him pay, when he was employed he paid less than the legal amount he should have anyway (no extra help for school uniform etc)
Now he pays a pitiful amount because he says he doesn’t earn anything .
He also received a huge amount in a lump sum when his parents passed away. No surprise of course that my children won’t see a penny of that.

My son’s father owes £25,000 to me.... still waiting! My son is 20 in September

Gingerkittycat - discusting isn't it? I'm sure if I didn't buy my children food or clothes and instead paid off credit card debts that I'd run up on myself, I'd be accused of neglect.

But it's ok, because the RP will look after them.

*disgusting

When I tried to make a claim via CSA the guy on the other end was only interested in telling me I should sort it out privately. When I explained my ex was abusive and not the kind of guy I could reason with I was told that maybe I should try to talk to him nicely or arrange mediation at my own cost. So I'm phoning because I have no money and am being told to pay for mediation. What a joke.Gave up in the end.

Also to add to my story my ex works in a prison- a government prison- why can’t a government department take money out of the salary from someone who works for the government - it beggars belief how useless CMS are

Don't give up 2021mumma. They should contact him themselves to see if he'll pay direct. If not then they'll chase it. Then finally they'll take it from his wages.

It took over a year to get to that point for me. It was going well for a few months, then my ex quit his job.

@HughGrantsHair my daughter is now 21 they wrote and told me they were writing off all outstanding debt so she will never get anything think they wrote off around £35k!!

that's awful

I would urge anyone with problems with the CMS to go to their MP.

After around 12 years of almost no payments, I did that and all of a sudden they got the ball moving and put a DOE order in place. I'm amazed that he has stayed at the same job and I've been getting a small, regular payment.

My DD is going to uni in September and I've been putting away the £50 a month to kit her out with everything she will need, we were just talking about a trip to IKEA and her plans for that money!

Obviously, it won't work if your ex is self employed and paying himself dividends or on benefits but it could be a good option for some people.

[quote Aerisash]@wineandsunshine

It's ridiculous isn't it? Maybe it happens a lot.

I have messaged them again asking who these people are and why have they sent me the wrong information, it's worrying that that they can do this.

If they can't respond to the right person which is pretty simple then no wonder nothing else gets done. [/quote]
Report them to the Information Commissioner. Maybe a GDPR breach (multiple going by this thread) will give them
a kick

@Gingerkittykat @Solasum

I have recently approached my MP - he was fantastic and got a reply. However, the reply had incorrect information and didn't tell me anything I didn't already know...

I have reported the error to the ICE and awaiting a response which will probably be an apology seeing as it's another government department!

@Solasum @wineandsunshine

I tried to call them and was told by the person the other end of the phone to use my self service portal. You have to go through a triage call and they decide if we can talk to someone about the case

I messaged and said about the letter with the wrong information and they said they had not sent me anything since my annual review and denied it.

I have sent them a copy of the letter through the portal and I still have no clue what is happening with my case with the enforcement and liability order. Maybe the other people named on my letter know.

They make it so easy for NRP not to pay because it's easier to fob RP off knowing we can't do much about it, they allow the NRP to lie and give them too many chances.

I'm sure if I didn't pay something for 6 years the bayliffs would be on my doorstep.

Cms are a joke. They are not doing anything to collect arrears he owes and last time I spoke to them they told me they were taking money from him & giving it to me. No he pays me direct. Waiting over 2 years for a phone call back.

I do hope this get survey gets us somewhere. My ex has never paid towards our daughter. 4 years down the line and not received a penny. He is still able to fund his gambling addiction at thousands of pounds a week but this cannot be taken into consideration as it is not earnings. Despite going through the FIU and issuing a liability order we are still no further forward. He now owns £28K + I have given up looking at the amount as I don’t think we will ever see a penny. Complaints don’t seem to go anywhere either. He has set up a business in his partners name which he runs full time, she pays herself dividends which go into their joint account so it pays the household bills and he has access to money without having any wages in his name. Bloody infuriating as there is no help or support you can get and their failings mean we have lost out financially, my daughter has a life limiting illness and deserves to have a quality of life not on the breadline. They really need to get him to court and lock him up as if my daughter is going to be deprived of her life so should he.