Refugee crisis: please take our survey to let us know where you stand

[SarahMumsnet]

Good afternoon, everyone.

Many of you will have seen the thread started by Theremustbesomething suggesting that Mumsnet consider campaigning for the government to change its policy towards asylum seekers fleeing from war zones.

Justine posted this morning to say that "we think that the best way forward is to poll all users to gauge support for this. While it's clear from this thread that many feel extremely passionately about the need to do more, we've had a look at other threads on the subject, and there are a range of views. As a rule we don't campaign for political change unless we're clear that it's something that a substantial majority of Mumsnetters support, so we'd need to be sure of that before committing to an 'official' campaign."

We've now set up the poll; you can fill it in here. We'd be grateful if as many of you as possible could take it, to let us know your views. We'll make sure this thread is prominently displayed across the site.

Thanks very much,
MNHQ

THREAD ABOUT MEETING AT THE MARCH HERE. REALLY THIS TIME.

Done.

Thanks Rowan,

What we're trying to find out with this survey is whether the refugee issue has reached that non-party, above-politics point

I believe it has - it's a humanitarian crisis now.

There is an article in today's online Guardian about what Syrians take on their journeys; it's very bleak reading. One of the items they take is a laser pen to attract lifeboats if and when theirs sinks . If someone could link to it I'd be grateful.

It really can't be said enough. This is about humanity, not politics.

#couldbemychild

Article from Guardian

Here you go Pepperpot.

Thanks Hanna. It's very sobering reading.

Done but I agree with Atticus et al., I don't think MNhq should be getting involved with this. Only a few weeks ago during the hack people were up in arms about being considered some amorphous mass with identical opinions. By representing the MN community as being of one voice on this issue, I think that MNhq are in danger of doing the same thing.

And it IS a political issue because if putting pressure on the government (which is presumably the aim of any campaign on this issue) results in a policy change this will have a knock on effect on other policies because of reallocation of funds. Not saying that is necessarily a bad thing but to claim it will have no effects on other government policies and is a stand alone issue is either naïve or disingenuous.

There is always a cause du jour. Some people are easily fired up and then two weeks later they've forgotten about it until something else comes up. What about We are Charlie Hebdo? We were all Charlie Hebdo and now it's all faded away. Foodbanks? It was terrible. Now who is thinking about people in reduced circumstances in this country? There are still starving children, great problems in the Yemen, FGM etc etc etc.

For MN to leap on the bandwagon for this cause is hasty and based on photojournalism and some politically-motivated posters agitating. Sending help to refugee camps is one thing, demanding a radical change in government policy is quite another.

I don't think a family group is going to be a net contributor.

Maybe not in the short term, but children eventually grow up to work and contribute to an otherwise ageing population.

Politically-motivated? No, RhodaBull. I am not a member of any political party. I am just trying to do something which I genuinely believe is morally important. You can try to sling all the mud you want, but I cannot be ashamed of this.

I'm so sorry - I really shouldn't have risen to that. It is completely irrelevant right now - please ignore my last post.

Forgotten about foodbanks? Again with the assumption (and every time it has been from the 'no' side of mnhq getting involved) that every mner is middle class and away from the crises in the uk.

I know it now looks like i am making it a class issue, but i am annoyed at constant incorrect assumptions being made. There are working class mners standing up to be counted in this. And on top of that comes (earlier posts, not recent) "oh we cant get involved while disabled people in the uk are getting their benefits cut" - NOT in my name.

It really goes back to the earlier posts, what outcomes are you hoping for? Nobody wants to encourage families taking such terrible risks, so what outcome will prevent this from happening? The only solution is a political one. Let us debate what we want politicians should do, but any solution requires funding. With funding comes choice. I don't see how MN can campaign without becoming political. This site is vital to enrich debates. If someone has a solution let us discuss it. I don't agree with a campaign when I don't understand what solution is being offered.

I supported Thermustbesomething's thread yesterday and I still do. I signed the petition. I have been looking at other ways I can help.

I do agree that the current situation is horrendous and we need to do more.

However. Much as I am not a fan of Viktor Orban (Hungarian PM) he has a point. I lived in Budapest for six years so have been watching what has been going on at Keleti train station with particular interest. He has made the point that allowing so many Muslims into Europe has the potential to have huge implications for a primarily Christian continent. Please don't take this as anti Muslim/Islamic in any way. It's really not. But it is something that needs thinking about. There will potentially be 800,000 more Muslims in Germany and thousands in other countries. That has got to change the demographics in Europe.

How do we say "we will let you in and welcome you and respect your religion and beliefs but in return you have to understand and respect OUR religions, beliefs, non-beliefs and way of life." Obviously very many of the refugees WILL be happy to be allowed get on with their lives in their way but we know already that some will not.

Are we shoring up future unrest and problems?

The situation in Syria desperately needs sorting out. Islamic State need sorting out. Iraq. Afghanistan. Etc Etc.

The people fleeing need also to be part of the solution in the future. Many of them are apparently qualified professionals and well educated.

I know we have tried to educate and help Afganistan with obviously varying degrees of success.

Why has what we have done until now not worked? What can we do differently in the future? What can the current refugees do in the future to help their homelands?

This is a humanitarian crisis.
It is a Middle Eastern crisis.
It is European crisis.
It is a world crisis.

It can't go on.

A few other comments. People wondering why many refugees seem to be single men - one man on the train in Hungary yesterday was travelling with his father and his young son - he said his wife was already in Germany.

I also watched the horrible scene where the apparently Syrian refugee pushed is wife and child onto the train track. That seemed odd to me. It looked staged in some way. And later the police were trying to give the refugees food and water and the refugees threw it back at them. I understand that they dont want to be in Hungary but they really were not helping themselves yesterday.

My other worry is Islamic State. We know they want to attack Europe. They have already stated that. How do we know that they are not behind this sudden escalation in the amount of refugees trying to get to Europe? Are they trying to escape Islamic State? Or have they been sent to Europe? I wouldn't put anything past Islamic State.

Yes, we do need to help out this humanitarian crisis.
However, there should be an expectation of other countries to help also.
The one thing that needs to be addressed PDQ is the Calais/ Eurotunnel problem.
I think it is appalling that lorry drivers going about their business are placed in the invidious position of fending off desperate migrants.
Of course the elephant in the room is the political unrest in places like Syria, and , until this is resolved, the populations there will continue to flee westwards.Political solutions urgently needed please!

I haven't forgotten Charlie Hebdo.
I haven't forgotten Gay Rights.
I haven't forgotten food banks.
I wear my Go Gold for Childhood Cancer Month with pride on FB.

I still have room to remember those in need RIGHT NOW.

I'm 100% behind you MNHQ.

However, there should be an expectation of other countries to help also.

Other countries are doing much, much more than us!

Done. Totally appropriate in this forum to IMHO. Of course there are bigger issues, but the chaos in the Middle East isn't going to be sorted out any time soon and these people are in desperate need.

The mother of the tiny boys who drowned did not want to go. She could not swim. But in a culture where women are second class to the men she was forced to go by her husband and take her babies with her. He has blood on his hands. No wonder he has returned to Syria. They were already safe in Turkey and he knew well about the dangers of trying to cross a sea at night without life jackets for his children. He put his family at risk and he will probably never get over his guilt.

I am sorry but the lack of women and girls being 'allowed' to flee is sickening. But that is to be expected where women have no rights.

Yes there is a monumental humanitarian crisis. Where are all the women and girls while the men flee?

This is very much a parenting issue. Many of the refugees are parents like us with children just like ours. It is also a question of how we bring our children up to share and to have humanity towards others.

Done.
Will be very disillusioned if the majority don't support tbh.

Mumsnet is for parents, by parents but only if, by the luck of geography, you aren't trying to escape a war zone or seeking a better life for your kids.

I think it's been done, and very expertly. Yesterday, picture of drowned child (WHEN, exactly was this taken?). Today, fully-researched interview with parent. Cameron caves in. On a political level, anyway. What will REALLY happen? Open door for anyone who says they're fleeing Syria?

Try reading this wotoodoo

agreed