Refugee crisis: please take our survey to let us know where you stand

[SarahMumsnet]

Good afternoon, everyone.

Many of you will have seen the thread started by Theremustbesomething suggesting that Mumsnet consider campaigning for the government to change its policy towards asylum seekers fleeing from war zones.

Justine posted this morning to say that "we think that the best way forward is to poll all users to gauge support for this. While it's clear from this thread that many feel extremely passionately about the need to do more, we've had a look at other threads on the subject, and there are a range of views. As a rule we don't campaign for political change unless we're clear that it's something that a substantial majority of Mumsnetters support, so we'd need to be sure of that before committing to an 'official' campaign."

We've now set up the poll; you can fill it in here. We'd be grateful if as many of you as possible could take it, to let us know your views. We'll make sure this thread is prominently displayed across the site.

Thanks very much,
MNHQ

Agreed, Gruach.

I agree with atticuslaw2 the questions are too simplistic. What outcomes does the MN support and what solutions are you willing to support to meet those outcomes? What we should be doing is debating the solutions and the impact that will have.

Done
We are parents as are many of those fleeing oppressive regimes. In many ways little Aylan was any mother's son.

Agree with atticus and gruach.

The situation is appalling - but I agree with those that this survey is a knee jerk reaction. The question is too broad. What will Mumsnet do that isn't already being done by organisations like the Red Cross etc.

And frankly - with no disrespect to MN Towers - those organisations are better informed on policy and practicalities both here in the UK and abroad.
If Mumsnet members want to do something surely working with one of those organisations would be more effective and much more likely to provide help to those who need it.

I wish Mumsnet would come back and say practically what they will be doing as part of this campaign - would they be lobbying MP's (on taking in refugees, on manning ships in the Med, or something else??), would they work with another organisation (if so which one), will they support practical support in terms of gathering food/supplies/providing shelter.

Agree with everything atticus says.

There are millions of people who want to live in northern Europe. Let us not forget that every day thousands of Africans are making their way to Italy and Spain. We cannot possibly accept everyone - and everyone has a story to tell. Most of those in the first wave are young men. There will be trouble if there are hundreds of thousands of lone men with no work congregating. Especially when - and it cannot be denied - a great many have a poor view of western women.

It says a lot that on another thread about sending clothes - the official organisations have said that they have plenty of women's and children's stuff. 99% of those coming through Europe are men . It makes me sound like a man-hater - I'm not! - but historically men en masse is a problem.

Atticus - sounds to me like the 'Nos' are the ones getting hysterical.

In answer to your list of questions and the suggestion that we come up with proper solutions for each and every one of them, after hashing it out from each and every different perspective we have as individuals, I would say NO, no we don't have to do that!
We're not in Government, we are not being paid to work those things out and don't have to/nor should, try to figure out every single detail. We have elected people (some of us didn't vote for either btw), and a myriad of professions whose jobs it is to do just that.

This is about us, the people of this country, the voters, putting pressure on our Government to do more. To say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. What has been done so far by ours, and all other Governments around the world just isn't enough.
It's not enough that in this day and age anywhere in the world, things like this are allowed to happen while the rest of us turn a blind eye.

And for you and all the others racistly and sexistly spouting about thousands, nay potentially millions of young single men trying to invade our country - get a frigging grip!
Do you honestly think for one second that our Government and the greedy bastards corporations running this country and the rest of the world, are ever going to allow that? No matter how much public pressure? Don't be so ridiculous!

This is about pushing for change. Pushing for resolutions. Saying WE WANT YOU TO DO MORE!

What will Mumsnet do? It will add a voice, that's what it will do.

What possible harm could it do?

I think the "yes" people are behaving in a mob-like fashion, hacking down anyone who expresses disquiet. There is unfortunately a pack-like mentality on MN and there are some activists who are adept at rounding people up and herding them in the desired direction.

Hannna I am neither racist nor sexist - being a discrimination lawyer that wouldn't be great for business. I object to your name calling and it does nothing to add weight to your cause. Grow up.

I personally am taking steps to support the refugees and have been doing so for a while now. I don't believe MN should be engaging in political lobbying.

It is that voice that is so important. When you are in a time of crisis, whether that be personal or national, just to have someone say, 'I hear you, I may not be able to change things, but I wish I could, and I will do my best to be there in whatever way I can.' means so much. Just to know that you are not alone, that someone cares. It can give you the strength to carry on when you feel all hope is lost.
I live in MOD housing, so many of these houses are empty and have stood empty since we have been living here. The houses themselves are small, but could easily fit a family in each of them, or a few single individuals. I would be more than happy to help these people with food, teaching them english, and finding ways to help them to get started.

I don't believe MN should be engaging in political lobbying.

I agree. If you want to do something - all of you who are clamouring for Britain to 'do something' (which, by the way, it IS and has been doing for years) - then do something yourself. Give money to one of the organisations that have been helping the refugees for months (Save the Children, Red Cross, etc - that list in the Independent yesterday was exhaustive), or donate your time, clothing, or whatever you have to give.

This morning the news seems to be that David Cameron will invite more refugees to come to the UK, but via official channels i.e. taking people who are in UN displaced persons camps bordering Syria. I'm really pleased he's not doing anything to encourage people to come here independently, since that's what causes deaths and just makes people smugglers rich.

It is good when mumsnet does campaignes. My view and I have expressed it on the survey is that we should indeed be operating in the Med but to turn the boats back as does Australia near their shores.

The UK gives more aid to these people than all other EU states put together. The fact is most people in the UK do not want here 1m extra sexist muslims who think women are second class to men and who all want to go to Germany anyway as they see the UK as a Middle East aggressor and most of these people are safe with 14 other kurds in Turkey but want more money so much they will criminally put their small children on dangerous boats.

Crumbled, yes R4 went through that point this morning - we have a scheme under which the 216 came here where we take people from the camps and we will particularly take those subject to most torture or domestic abuse (rather than that all those fit young men in Europe who have abandoned families to ISIS and worse)

Done

As a lawyer of any kind Atticus, you should be well practised at reading words carefully, I said you (and others) were spouting racist and sexist views when referring to huge numbers of young, single men as if they're all here up to no good. What else would you call that?

You're (collective term) judging them on their sex, and on their race. What else would you call that?

Noticing that doesn't make me immature, and I didn't need to get a law degree to figure out that that is discrimination.

If all the people waiting at Calais and crossing the seas to get here, were women and babies would you hold quite the same attitude about what to do with them once they're here, or their intentions in coming? Honestly?

"...there are some activists who are adept at rounding people up and herding them in the desired direction."

I can only apologise, RhodaBull, if you feel that my behaviour was inappropriate. As I have said to a previous poster, I think that we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I hope you have a good day.

Morning everyone

A few of you have said you'd have liked the survey to be more specific. The questions were designed to gauge people's feelings around this specific situation; we wouldn't campaign on the broader issue of immigration policy, but specifically around the question of the UK's response to the current crisis, and we kept the survey brief as it seemed to us that the first thing we needed to establish was Mumsnetters' enthusiasm for our support of such a campaign.

Do please bear in mind though that both questions have 'other' fields which you can fill in to express anything you think we've missed. We also know from experience that long, complex surveys can turn people off, and we wanted as many MNers as possible to fill this one in so that we can get as close as possible to understanding what you think as a group.

With that last point in mind, we will keep the survey at the top of the HP, as a DOD, and stickied throughout the day, and we'll point people towards it from our Talk Round-Up email, which goes out this afternoon. We'll also signpost it on the many discussion threads around the boards. We'll keep the survey open until midnight today, and will let you know the outcome ASAP after that.

Survey done, thanks MNHQ.

I still don't see why Mumsnet's voice adds so much to the debate. Surely other organizations hold more influence and knowledge? Joining and swelling the numbers behind those organizations would help more and in the future (because let's face it there will be another crisis in the future)
In my opinion Mumsnet saying a collective "we care" on this topic frankly means nothing. So if we're going to have a campaign I sure as hell hope it's something more substantial than that.

This survey, though, is only a survey of people who have actively made the choice to engage with it. MN has not canvassed all its members or even a sample. Therefore to trumpet that "MN wants X or Y" is bowing to those who shout the loudest.

To be fair, we don't know that the male refugees have actually abandoned anyone, or do we?
For all we know, they were sent over as the most likely and safe to succeed and with the task of bringing their families later, legally and more safely than what they did.

I don't know their stories, but I just wonder if we can reach such conclusions about them just from the fact that they are there and in greater numbers.

I do agree that it's important to provide alternatives to smuggling. Either much better conditions in the camps or taking the most vulnerable. Even actively going for the smugglers.

Don't think sending overfilled boats to risk sinking is a good measure.

Unfortunately there is no easy or quick solution for this, but debating it forever isn't going to help either. Whatever measures must be implemented soon. I'd just argue that the most humane measures should be taken. If anything that's what I'd like MN to campaign for.
It's not a political party campaign, so that's fine in my view. Because all matters are ultimately political.

hanna I'm not getting into a bunfight with you on this. If you had actually read my posts you would see that Ive said all along I am not anti support I am anti MN being turned into a political lobbying body.

I did not say anything even vaguely sexist or racist. I asked the question do we give women and children/families priority or is it first come first served? It is a fact that the vast majority who are first in the queue are young single males.

Stating a fact isn't sexist or racist, I didn't give an opinion one way or another. I asked a question to highlight the fact that this is an extremely complex issue.

Please stop equating the fact that some do not wish MN to engage in political lobbying as the voice of all users with an assumption that those users are not in favour of supporting the refugees. Its a completely different issue and as I have said in a number of posts I have personally been adding support for some time now by donating through established channels.