Campaign to end Bounty sales reps' access to maternity wards - please read and share

[JustineMumsnet]

Evening all,

Thanks to all of you who have taken the time to fill in our survey on Bounty and share your stories - from the initial idea onwards, this really is a campaign that has been prompted by your concerns, as posted on Mumsnet.

The survey showed that a very large majority (82%) felt it was unacceptable for Bounty sales reps to be on hospital wards, as well as highlighting a number of other concerns about Bounty reps' selling practices, so we're calling on government to end this kind of direct selling/data collecting on NHS wards. See more here.

It's clear, from the survey results, that, even after Bounty updated its code of conduct (these results only include users who gave birth from May 2012 - the full results containing prior data are here) its practices leave a lot to be desired, and that Mumsnet users feel very strongly that the maternity ward is no place for a hard sell, so we're really hoping that government will listen to us.

Here's how you can help...

Please sign the petition

If you're on Twitter please tweet your support for the campaign with the hashtag #bountymutiny and the following link:

tiny.mn/1bsnpNw

If you're on Facebook then please like campaign page our campaign page (there's a FB link to click at the top on the left).

If you're on Google+, well, you'll know what to do.

We'll, of course, keep you posted here about the campaign and any developments. Thanks to everyone for their stories, honesty and input. Here's hoping we can make a difference!

I think the packs could just be available through boots.

Lets face it, the company Bounty isn't going to go away. We just want it out of the post natal ward. They can keep their existing distribution network with boots- as everyone will be shopping there post natally anyway.

Then everyone who is happy for all their personal details to be sold for a teeny pot of nappy cream is catered for.

Has anyone else found an email address we can use for complaints to Bounty?

"Then everyone who is happy for all their personal details to be sold for a teeny pot of nappy cream is catered for" @ milktraylady

[email protected]

the link by Suffolk @7.44- filled in my complaint.

Will update if I get a response.

Next stop is to the pals service at my hospital.

Can I encourage everyone else to do the same, so the bounty & hospital stats show our annoyance, as well as this campaign?

Oscalito - mums used to spend a week in hospital so they could see Bounty either in their own time or when they weren't straight out of birth. I can appreciate that actually. The way my hospital deals with mums without their baby means that you don't really get to see the Bounty lady, so by the time the baby joins you, you are feeling a lot better and seeing the Bounty lady can feel like some of the normality you have missed out on (which is probably why a lot of the Mutiny opposition comes from special care mums, like Kylie, if they didn't get the hard sell early on, they are glad to join the normal world at a time they're not so stressed).

Nothing wrong with making the same point without RTFT if you've made something sensible

I had a list of things that were done badly whilst I was in hospital, including the midwives not telling the doctor that the lamp in my room didn't work until I was bottomless on my back and he had gloves on and a lubricated speculum in his hand, then spent five minutes looking for something only to come back with an LED keyring! There was so many things we weren't happy with and when we got home it was just a mountain, Bounty would have just been one in many at that point, so I can understand why many people don't complain.

Suffolk, they're saying they object to removing Bounty from wards because they want to see a change in maternity services?

Gee, it's not about the bags, it's about direct marketing to vulnerable women in hospital. The lies. The endorsement by NHS and the government. No one here cares if you want to sign your personal details away to the most lucrative marketing list there is for a mini pot of sudo.

mummyplonk, if they had their own room they wouldn't have access to maternity wards I'm sure there would be no need to lose their jobs, after all, if we weren't having that service demand elsewhere would be higher. There is already a service by Barrett and Coe for example.

I've just emailed my MP again, explaining that it's not about people, it's about a service. I asked if she would have been asking about the people if I had said that it had been the same A&E and my elderly grandmother with her broken hip. She's someone who's known for women's issues so I'm really hoping she'll get on board with this. I've asked her for help on things before and she knows how to kick a bottom or two when needed.

Courgette, If Bounty were given a designated room it would have to be on a postnatal ward if they continued their photography service. The main reason being the security and safety of the babies would be compromised (not to mention the alarms going potty) if any of the babies got close to the exit. Which is my point, to remove from the ward is a total ban. If they had a room a little bit away from the bays and private rooms that babies could be pushed in their fish bowls to by Mum or Dad if they did want a bag/photo. It would work in our hospital as Bounty have a room anyway to store their camera equipment/bags in anyway. I feel a complete change in business practise such as this would mean all of the main sales/privacy issues addressed instantly, those who do enjoy what they do can carry on and the NHS will still receive some funds, charities get their funding and part-time jobs not lost.

How do you think people go home?

We live in the UK where the NHS is free at the point of delivery (I shall remain serious) not where we sell our lives to fund our stay. Americans are really being ripped off if it costs £5 per baby in the UK!

How about if a rep for Wiltshire Farm foods, Stannah, funeral homes, photography (because you only have this chance to take this picture) offered money to the NHS to allow them a room in the wards to make sure all their elderly patients have a choice to see them before they go home?

Yes, a few Mums do go home first then come back to the hospital at a later date for the photos. But the majority want to have the pictures taken as they are leaving, when the baby has its going home outfit on or when it is one day old.

If the photos are really that important to people, and bounty staff are specially trained photographers (as claimed by the bounty rep on the other thread), and the NHS need the money, heres an idea...

In the private room (not bed to bed!) you have a photographer who is "employed" directly by the NHS. Its a job all those poor unemployed Bounty sales reps can do, as they love seeing the squishy babies so much, and absolutely never ever pressure sell any way. The money made then goes to the NHS, and some random private company dont have unrivalled access to postnatal women.

Postnatal bounty packs can be collected in exactly the same way everyone manages to collect their antenatal bounty/any other packs.

Win win win. Except for bounty.

Who said anything about leaving a baby at the hospital and going home on your own??? I've done that and BELIEVE me, my baby was not in a state at that point to WANT to take her/him to have her/his photos done! Fortunately Bounty don't wonder around the NNU!

Hang on, let's ask this again maybe more clearer...

In my hospital the postnatal wards are on level 2+ we can't leave the hospital without passing gynae out patients, the high risk antenatal ward, bereavement, WRVS, the cashier, the pop up shop, the volunteer station, PALS... I don't fancy jumping out of the window from a few floors up with a new baby.

So, if they were to have a photography shop in the hospital, it could be in any of those places and I'd take my baby past it WHEN I LEFT THE HOSPITAL!

I think I'm bowing out because it's quite clear you only want to disagree even if that makes you thick and I can't be bothered.

Beyond, that is a fantastic idea!

I meant leave, with their babies and return at a later date, with their babies to the ward to have photos taken.

I am not disagreeing with you (STOP SHOUTING!) Yes, you are right they could have a place by the shop, exit, costa coffee etc. This may work better. Just saying, from what I have seen I am usually asked to try and track her down for photos just before they are discharged and put in the car seats.

Err the bounty ladies are not trained photographers are they. There was mention of this by someone who was a bounty lady she said she had no training other than 'press this button'....

Anyway if you want a professional photo you can get one at many places, we had a photographer come to our home, she was lovely.

There is no need for them on the wards, esp not with the advent of smart phones etc.

"I am usually asked to try and track her down for photos"

Which is yet another reason it would be better for the photographer to have a fixed stall, isn't it? None of this "missing the photographer". And Bounty has actually been wasting your time, mummyplonk, as you wander around looking for them. (It's very nice of you to do so, but...)

Yep, Absolutely. I'm all for it. They could be there between 9-2pm for anyone that wants to see them.

Talking of the pernicious encroachment of baby milk formula companies
MNHQ - Do you realise that at the very top of this page (and every page) is an advert ....

"Claim your baby goodies ... free nappies, formula, and other samples we have sourced ..... " @ I won't be giving them any more free publicity by giving a name !

I hope this ad will soon be going as I think you have strict guidelines on the advertising and giving of free samples of formula milk do you not MNHQ ?!

Will be reporting my own post for your speedy attention.

AFAIK - they're only given basic 'how to use the camera' but not 'trained' photographers as such. My lady wasn't.

Like others, my baby was in SCBU/NNU/PICU so I did have to leave the hospital without him 'once my time was up'. It was horrific, leaving without the baby you'd had.

Going back to the ward, to see him and sort things out was hard enough but to have these women hovering around, almost waiting to pounce on me was unacceptable.

Thank feck they are not allowed in these wards to just take pictures. I was approached by a rep leaving SCBU who asked if I wanted photo's. She had no idea what had gone on in there that day, as it turned out, we'd found out that he had a life threatening heart comv...............

The sooner they are banned from the maternity wards/areas, the better imo.

SHOUTING is not single words, that's emphasis.

I'm not sure why you brought up coming back to the hospital, other than you seem desperate to disagree.

Tempest are great, DS has just had some photo's done at preschool - he's Autistic and found the attention/fussing etc very upsetting, struggled with whole situation but they left him alone, he went off to play and in the end, he went back to them and asked for his pic to be taken :)

How wonderful is that? They were completely calm and quiet around him once his 1-1 explained.... very professional.

And we're very happy with them. No pushy sales, just here are your pics, would you like any?

Yep - job done :)

Courgette, please read my posts again calmly, they are non-aggressive and I cant even see where I am disagreeing with you? I made a suggestion...

You have called me thick

'Who said anything about leaving a baby at the hospital and going home on your own???' I didn't you misread it. I therefore clarified it.

Am bemused by your personal attack so backing away slowly.

More blogs from today:
www.tpfp.co.uk/2013/07/mumsnets-bounty-campaign.html

nurturemybaby.co.uk/2013/07/02/the-bounty-mutiny/

Telegraph article
www.telegraph.co.uk/health/10157397/Salespeople-on-maternity-wards-can-be-positive-mother-claims.html

(may I also direct you to the comment made by Owen Boswarva, about the Jodine Boothby mentioned in the article).

www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/nhs-highland-to-end-contract-with-bounty-parenting-club.21509844
Quote from the above link:
Now it has emerged at least four other Scots NHS health boards including NHS Lothian, NHS Fife, NHS Lanarkshire and NHS Grampian are to reconsider their relationship with Bounty.

Melanie Hornett, nurse director of NHS Lothian, said: "We have not been previously aware of complaints from parents about Bounty. However, in light of the current national campaign and following a number of letters from concerned parents, we are now reviewing the position."

NHS Fife, which has received £375 so far this year from Bounty, said it is "considering our options and reviewing our contract".

NHS Lanarkshire said it had not received any complaints about services offered by Bounty but would keep contracts with the company under review "and consult with our mums before any decision regarding future contracts". The health board said it received £4672 from Bounty in 2012 which is added to an endowments fund which is invested back into the service "to benefit our mums and babies".

NHS Grampian also said it had no complaints from patients and did not intend ending the contract, but added: "We will of course review the arrangement when the existing contract expires."

However, Scotland's biggest health board, NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde, says it has no plans to withdraw from Bounty contracts saying the "overwhelming feedback" from the 16,000 mums who give birth in the area is they "enjoy" receiving a Bounty bag.

"In our Bounty contracts we have stipulated explicitly the respectful way in which we expect their representatives to treat our patients and we are not aware of any evidence these protocols have not been adhered to," said an NHSGGC spokeswoman.

Blimey the Telegraph article is one sided. Seems like stealth advertising for the woman in the article who's an entrepreneur. What's the betting she uses the bounty database for her marketing? Suspicious.