Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Mumsnet campaigns

For more information on Mumsnet Campaigns, check our our Campaigns hub.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Campaign to end Bounty sales reps' access to maternity wards - please read and share

866 replies

JustineMumsnet · 11/06/2013 22:16

Evening all,

Thanks to all of you who have taken the time to fill in our survey on Bounty and share your stories - from the initial idea onwards, this really is a campaign that has been prompted by your concerns, as posted on Mumsnet.

The survey showed that a very large majority (82%) felt it was unacceptable for Bounty sales reps to be on hospital wards, as well as highlighting a number of other concerns about Bounty reps' selling practices, so we're calling on government to end this kind of direct selling/data collecting on NHS wards. See more here.

It's clear, from the survey results, that, even after Bounty updated its code of conduct (these results only include users who gave birth from May 2012 - the full results containing prior data are here) its practices leave a lot to be desired, and that Mumsnet users feel very strongly that the maternity ward is no place for a hard sell, so we're really hoping that government will listen to us.

Here's how you can help...

Please sign the petition

If you're on Twitter please tweet your support for the campaign with the hashtag #bountymutiny and the following link:

tiny.mn/1bsnpNw

If you're on Facebook then please like campaign page our campaign page (there's a FB link to click at the top on the left).

If you're on Google+, well, you'll know what to do.

We'll, of course, keep you posted here about the campaign and any developments. Thanks to everyone for their stories, honesty and input. Here's hoping we can make a difference!

OP posts:
SuffolkNWhat · 02/07/2013 19:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RedToothBrush · 02/07/2013 19:48

So Dooby, do you think that whats happening with Bounty is unconnected with other issues on maternity wards or how women are treated in healthcare?

Bounty are the tip of a rather large iceberg.

*Whats happening proves that the complaints system really isn't working, and its relied on too heavily by Trusts. Prove this and it forces hospitals to open their ears a bit
*All the women saying the Bounty angel was a 'Guardian Angel' in the face of midwives who didn't care and they wanted other support, proves that hospitals need to relook at who gets access and why. There is a need and demand, but it sure as hell isn't for photographs (Note if your granny suddenly had someone fuss over her and assist her with her care, cos the nurses weren't and it turned out she was on the ward as she was trying to sell to patients, you'd be quick to raise an eyebrow)
*All the midwives who turn a blame eye to obvious wrong doing, are shown up for what they are.
*It forces hospitals to seriously look at how they safeguard against commercial representation in the NHS. Which is all the more important as the government looks to increase this.
*It gives women the confidence to speak up on this issue, and to feel that it isn't trivial. And if this isn't trivial, then neither are a lot of other things that we aren't complaining enough about.
*It puts a focus on maternity and how women are send as an easy target by high pressure salespeople. Do you think that men are targeted as much with similar tactics. Women are perceived as the soft touch.

I could go on and on
(And I'm bloody good at rambling and hideously long posts)
But I'll leave it there. For now at least.

The whole thing is not about little Bounty packs and how evil their contents are.

Doobydoo · 02/07/2013 19:51

Fundamentalism.

courgetteDOTcom · 02/07/2013 19:54

My job? The for the Nestle boycott or the one for NCT? (No, I'm not Belinda! I know she does both too)

As I've already said, I'm not a fairy, I'm capable of more than one feeling at a time.

ICBINEG · 02/07/2013 20:00

ahhh is the reference to hemp supposed to mean that we are all wannabe natural earth mothers?

heh, what with my disposable nappy use and being back a full time work after 4 months I doubt I am going to fit in that particular pigeon hole...

courgetteDOTcom · 02/07/2013 20:02

Well... I think the implication is we're either hippies or hypocrites.

ICBINEG · 02/07/2013 20:02

Farsightedness

ICBINEG · 02/07/2013 20:03
RedToothBrush · 02/07/2013 20:04

Ooo I didn't know that NHS Tayside stopped Bounty Packs as far back as before 2007.

At the time Bounty were still promoting formula for newborns, and this has been tightened up on, but it seems that they carried on with it.

This is from minutes of their Trust's corporate governance meeting Oct 2007
link to pdf here

They said the following:

9. CONSULTATION ? DISTRIBUTION AND ENDORSEMENT OF PRODUCTS FROM COMMERCIAL COMPANIES POLICY
The Group noted the correspondence circulated for consultation by Ms J Dalzell on the Distribution and Endorsement of Products from Commercial Companies Policy.
Ms Dalzell gave the background to the work that had been undertaken by the NHS Tayside Infant Feeding Strategy Group. She highlighted that the maternity service was periodically approached by commercial companies such as Johnson & Johnson to distribute samples of their products to new parents.
This type of company also approached maternity units in the community. There was no policy in place to give guidance to staff and a recent approach by ?Bounty Packs? had highlighted the need for the requirement for this type of policy. It was noted that NHS Tayside had stopped Bounty Packs a number of years ago within the maternity service.
Ms Dalzell highlighted the UK regulations that maternity services had to follow in relation to infant formula and follow on, noting that the Food Standards Agency was currently consulting upon revised, tighter regulation in this area.
It was noted that maternity services units were required to provide a range of formula milk for mothers who did not want to or were not able to breast feed. In response to a query, Ms Dalzell confirmed that this policy in no way affected or stopped any mother getting access to formula milk when they were in hospital. Ms Dalzell highlighted that NHS Tayside had to pay the recommended retail price for formula milk and did not get any trade discounts.
Ms Dalzell highlighted that this policy was in part to protect very, vulnerable new consumers targeted by commercial companies and that NHS Tayside should not be used as a vehicle for these commercial companies.
It was noted that the consultation process was to be complete by 30 November 2007. It was suggested and noted that Ms Dalzell should clearly state in the policy that the policy in no way affected the supply of formula milk in hospitals to mothers who choose or cannot breast feed their babies.
It was agreed that following the consultation and agreement of the policy. The policy would be added as appendix to the Code of Corporate Governance after the Sponsorship Policy.

Now, have a look at what Bounty said in 2012 about the situation:
Linky to topic on Bounty's forum

Thank you for contacting Bounty.

Unfortunately the board that runs NHS Tayside object to Bounty packs, as they see Bounty as a commercial enterprise (i.e. advertising & marketing). This is unfortunate as Bounty provide Mums to be with key information, samples & support at a time when they?re in desperate need of it. In the past (& to provide mum with some choice) the HOM at NHS Tayside agreed to hand out a ?registrars cards? thus enabling mums to complete them & request a Newborn pack be sent by post if they required.

However, due to financial constraints, this home delivery service from Bounty is no longer available. Whilst it is unfortunate, it is ultimately the NHS Tayside board?s decision which Bounty have to abide by & at present we are still not allowed access to the hospital.?

Interesting...

ICBINEG · 02/07/2013 20:06

hmm well my job involves teaching undergraduates and doing a little research, which is currently into looking for alternative forms of antibiotics to the types that resistance is now a big issue for.

I'll stick my neck right on out there and say that my work is substantially more ethical than pressure selling to vulnerable people, at least some of whom are still coming around from general anaesthetics and the like.

SuffolkNWhat · 02/07/2013 20:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

girliefriend · 02/07/2013 20:11

Why is all 580 posts on 1 page?!

Anyway, going totally against the grain here but the free stuff from Bounty I received I found really useful. I was a quite young, clueless and single mum with a baby and was thankful for all the freebies I could get tbh.

RedToothBrush · 02/07/2013 20:13

I like how Bounty seem to trying to suggest that they aren't a commercial enterprise with their response...

ICBINEG · 02/07/2013 20:13

Sorry if this is dense...but the government are paying bounty to hand out forms and bounty are paying the NHS...so couldn't the government just pay the NHS directly to hand the forms out?

Also if companies want to give out free samples of anything that isn't formula then presumably they can also do that...it is just the selling, and the stealing of personal data that is the issue...

SuffolkNWhat · 02/07/2013 20:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BornToFolk · 02/07/2013 20:19

This "if you don't want a photo, just say no" thing really, really pisses me off. I DID say no to the Bounty woman who wanted me to wake my sleeping newborn up to take his picture. I was sleep-deprived, hormonal and so was actually quite bolshy in my saying no. However, she LIED to me and told me that it was a security requirement that DS have his photo take so I grudgingly agreed. Didn't buy the photos though!

And I didn't complain at the time as I had my hands full enough taking care of a newborn and really struggling to get to grips with breastfeeding. I wish I had found the time to log a proper complaint now though Sad

Salespeople have no place on hospital wards. That's the crux of it for me.

RedToothBrush · 02/07/2013 21:06

Also if companies want to give out free samples of anything that isn't formula then presumably they can also do that...it is just the selling, and the stealing of personal data that is the issue...

To a point. They are definitely the key issues.

But I would say, that given the area they work in - primarily healthcare due to presence on the wards - (rather than a more generalised field as Mumsnet) they should adhere to the behaviour you expect from professionals in that field and display the same level of understanding about how important trust is.

We should expect this from anyone who does end up advertising in a similar fashion in other areas of the NHS. There are people such as Margaret McCartney or Ben Goldacre, might suggest we should be going even further, because the whole area is too open to abuse. I think to an extent this is an area of debate that people who really support this campaign will differ on and thats not a bad thing. We need to have this debate as the direction the NHS is headed, means this will become an increasingly important issue.

If I'm honest, I think I would settle for a halfway house, as long as there was some regulation and accountability going on (which definitely isn't the in the framework of the NHS at the moment and you can see this from the fact that my 5 Trusts haven't done a formal review about potential problems). I think thats my goal really; to get a formal review in hospitals and to get them to take these issues a lot more seriously, even if they don't go as far as kicking Bounty out. They need to live up to their legal duties and need to be able to prove, beyond any doubt, that they have put in measure that work to do this.

I'm noting this definition from 'The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008'

?professional diligence? means the standard of special skill and care which a trader may reasonably be expected to exercise towards consumers which is commensurate with either?
(a) honest market practice in the trader?s field of activity, or
(b)the general principle of good faith in the trader?s field of activity;

Which applies to unfair sales practices. Its worth thinking about. If you expect a level of honest from healthcare providers then do you trust that people who advertise in that area to be working in your best interests as a direct result of their association.

So I do feel Bounty, perhaps need to be perhaps more transparent about what they are doing too rather than going out of their way to try and hide it. I would prefer honesty rather than lies about them being an advertiser. Making money from advertising isn't necessarily a bad thing. But where and how you do it, is important, particularly if you are in this area.

Btw, if you want to do your own little experiment about how much Bounty want to hide / downplay their commercial intent, then go on their twitter feed and scroll back.

They had a daily feature which was "Today's #topproduct"

The last time it appeared was 11th June. If the significance of this date escapes you, look at the first post of this thread...

PR at its best/worst.

(And the above is a good example of why we should be teaching media studies without the level of derision its commonly given in education. Stuff like this, is more important than you realise, but thats a whole different debate).

courgetteDOTcom · 02/07/2013 21:54

girliefriend, congratulations on your first post. They're not all on one page, that's just the view you opened it in. now, how many syllables do we need? no one cares what freebies or junk mail you want to sign up to. Really, no one.

I hope that clears things up a bit.

girliefriend · 02/07/2013 22:03

Nice Hmm

So if someone disagrees or has a pov to the mn jury then we are not allowed to voice it?

Thanks for clearing that up for me it was what i always suspected really anyway Sad

courgetteDOTcom · 02/07/2013 22:07

Who said you're not allowed to voice it? you've joined the site for the purpose of telling us we're wrong about something we're not even discussing! We were just trying to clear that up. feel free to join us in the topic we're discussing, if you feel strongly enough to educate yourself.

HorryIsUpduffed · 02/07/2013 22:09

You're allowed to disagree.

But please rtft first. It's. Not. About. Banning. The. Packs. It's about the salespeople visiting patients on wards.

courgetteDOTcom · 02/07/2013 22:12

I'd you'd RTFT you'd know that we don't care who wants to sell their details for a mini tub of sudo, this campaign has never been about that. I'd you were moving that, you obviously needed it spelling out to you.

courgetteDOTcom · 02/07/2013 22:13

missing! Confused

courgetteDOTcom · 02/07/2013 22:14

if!

I'm going to throw my pad out the window now Hmm

girliefriend · 02/07/2013 22:17

I haven't done that intentionally - I thought thats what you were discussing.

The sales rep I met just handed me the pack but appreciate that for some woman thats not the experience they've had. However if you ban the sales rep then am assuming the packs will stop as well.

Anyway, am going now. Had a feeling I would regret going anywhere near this thread.

Sad
Swipe left for the next trending thread