Campaign to end Bounty sales reps' access to maternity wards - please read and share

[JustineMumsnet]

Evening all,

Thanks to all of you who have taken the time to fill in our survey on Bounty and share your stories - from the initial idea onwards, this really is a campaign that has been prompted by your concerns, as posted on Mumsnet.

The survey showed that a very large majority (82%) felt it was unacceptable for Bounty sales reps to be on hospital wards, as well as highlighting a number of other concerns about Bounty reps' selling practices, so we're calling on government to end this kind of direct selling/data collecting on NHS wards. See more here.

It's clear, from the survey results, that, even after Bounty updated its code of conduct (these results only include users who gave birth from May 2012 - the full results containing prior data are here) its practices leave a lot to be desired, and that Mumsnet users feel very strongly that the maternity ward is no place for a hard sell, so we're really hoping that government will listen to us.

Here's how you can help...

Please sign the petition

If you're on Twitter please tweet your support for the campaign with the hashtag #bountymutiny and the following link:

tiny.mn/1bsnpNw

If you're on Facebook then please like campaign page our campaign page (there's a FB link to click at the top on the left).

If you're on Google+, well, you'll know what to do.

We'll, of course, keep you posted here about the campaign and any developments. Thanks to everyone for their stories, honesty and input. Here's hoping we can make a difference!

MNHQ I have just read on Facebook that NHS Highland have bowed to pressure to get rid of Bounty Sales Reps and cancelled their contract any confirmation this is true?

look here FoofFighter

Interesting article about Sussex maternity defending Bounty

Carole Garrick, head of midwifery at Western Sussex Hospitals NHS Trust, which received more than £5,000 last year, said: ?We simply would not allow any of our mums to feel pressured by a commercial organisation, and if we received complaints we would act immediately.

?However, we have never had any complaints at all about Bounty, their staff, or their packs. In fact, the only time that mums mention the packs is to ask for one.?

Western Sussex going on record about this, is interesting.

This hospital says the above and yet:
9) Has a formal assessment been carried out to assess whether patients' rights are being properly protected in the presence of a commercial party?
No known formal assessment has been undertaken but have experienced mothers asking for their free Bounty packs.

This hospital says:
"That is why we give so much attention to analysing every aspect of what we do on a day-to-day basis, why we take so much notice of complaints and patient feedback, and why we are always prepared to ask other Trusts to examine our services with a fresh pair of eyes, and to advise us how care can be improved. And it is also why there has been such a push recently to gather feedback from staff, relating to the safety and quality of patient care."

So how would they never allow it, if they haven't done a review to assess the risk? And don't they think they are rather contradicting themselves if they ignore why people are asking questions?

Much amused at their hypocrisy.

(Oh and its even funnier, cos I tweeted them on Friday and today an article appears in the newspaper)

Has anyone noticed something that has come up a few times in the pro Bounty comments/blogs/tweets that the Bounty Lady provided a friendly face, care and even advice when the care provided by medical staff fell short short of that needed by the patient. Whilst I feel any argument to keep Bounty based on these experiences misses the point of the campaign (and ignores the overwhelming number of negative experiences), I think in these instances the Bounty lady did provide something that was needed by these patients. Wouldn't it be nice to have support volunteers on maternity wards, maybe from charities without any commercial agenda, who are vetted and trained to provide this support and basic care advice. They could still distribute freebies/samples supplied by ethical companies without collecting any data. Mama packs manage to provide samples without collecting any data. I'm sure it's not that simple but...anyway, just something that occurred to me.

Red Do I remember correctly from your FOIs that the Bounty reps are not trained/qualified to give any healthcare support/advice and shouldn't engage in doing so?

Hairy, yes you remember right.

21) Are Bounty staff either properly trained to be able to accurately answer, or told not answer, any health related questions that might be raised by patients?
a) Bounty staff should not be giving any health advice to mothers on the ward. No training is provided by the Trust to support this.

b) Unable to fully answer ? question should be referred to Bounty directly. There would be an expectation by the ward staff that Bounty staff would ask patients to direct any health related questions to midwifery/medical staff.

c) Trained not to answer health related questions and refer to the ward staff. Bounty staff work to a Code of Conduct.
d) Our processes elicit appropriate assurances from service providers of the quality and nature of the training of any staff member who is given access to our Trust.
e) No involvement in health related issues.

a-e as previously posted.

Meanwhile:
Latest blog against the Bounty Mutiny

(in reference to the above link, I've seen somewhere how much Bounty give to charity and how much money they make. If I can dig it out I'll post it.)

Ok, this is a very dubious source (its a comment I've seen on an article in the Telegraph).

Bounty made an operating profit of £14.147 million on a turnover of £34.011 million.
It donated £103,000 to charity, nearly all of which went to Tommy's

Btw,
www.bounty.com/tommys/how-is-bounty-helping
Now I think we desperately need midwives. Like REALLY need.

However I'm still slightly worried at the prospect of directly sponsored midwives, even through Tommys. Especially through Tommys to be truthful. Its a massive potential conflict of interest for the charity and the hospital. One of the hospitals mentioned here is St Mary's in Manchester. St Mary's is part of Central Manchester University Hospitals NHS Trust who refer to patients as customers.

That really bothers me. I should be saying thats wonderful, but I'm really uncomfortable with it.

They're still conflating Bounty packs and Bounty salespeople. The campaign is against the sales techniques, not the relatively pointless but relatively harmless freebies.

We aren't thick.

Now this does get it. And the importance and wider implications and just why this really is important. Excellent article.
Blog by trainee midwife

Well, not sure I should be giving this any attention but but I can't keep anything to myself...... have a look at BountyMutiny hashtag on Twitter. There is an actual anti BountyMutiny petition.
Yes, seriously!

I was deliberately avoiding mentioning that Hairy! There are some 'crackers' on twitter tonight. I am highly impressed at the level of name calling intellectual debate going on. Its really not worth engaging with, when people are taking it to that level though. Clearly, the campaign has upset a few people. I just wish they would get the point about how commercialism in the NHS could damage your health and its far from being as trivial as they think. Hence why the likes of Ben Goldacre and Margaret McCartney put their two pennies worth in, in the first place.

I have seen a higher than normal level of crazy on Twitter today. I prob shouldn't have mentioned as I think some people are just looking for a scrap.
Still plenty of reasoned argument going on too which is good to see.

Horry - that's a good point, and worth repeating. After all, my postie delivers advertising stuff, sometimes with freebies, but doesn't badger me into giving my phone number and email address to sell on. And certainly doesn't attempt to do so while I'm in bed, exhausted, and bleeding.

The big irony for me, is the side effect of all the anti-mutiny blogs. They are talking about the wider issues in maternity, and they will be being read more than they otherwise would as a result.

I think this is part of the point for me. If this campaign encourages women to speak out about other issues and feel that it might be listened to/make a difference, then brilliant. If they actually are, even better.

Issues over lack of dignity, invasions of privacy and poor treatment by staff are all interconnected. They are not separate. If you can show that this is being deliberately ignored for whatever reason, by whoever, you can start to chip away against it everywhere far more successfully. You need to 'prove' a case when it comes to the NHS bureaucracy and cultural of denial/blind eyes/buck passing.

This is a great deal about transparency and accountability. I think this issue is a good starting point because there are such great big holes in what the Trusts are saying and doing which potentially have legal implications, which may be applied elsewhere. And actually for 'the more important' issues.

'The Vision', isn't about Bounty at all for me tbh. Its about the NHS at its heart. Though you have to also hold Bounty responsible on a number of levels; not least because they pay on commission basis which naturally sets up any bad eggs in the basket to behave in a particularly bad fashion.

Rather than fighting against someone who is trying to improve something in a maternity unit, perhaps getting behind the principle behind it is more to the point. Even if you don't agree with this particular campaign because 'there are bigger issues'.

premmeditations.wordpress.com/2013/07/01/when-bounty-brings-other-gifts/

Is no one getting why the Bounty rep might be being so nice? Actually isn't this is taking advantage of a situation where NHS staff aren't up to scratch and turning this into a sales op when a women is vulnerable. You don't have to be horrible to still be employing aggressive sales technics...

And thats about the third blog I've read in 24hours where the rep is dispensing advise, contrary to what they are supposed to do.

It bothers me that there are people on twitter going, "Its not Bounty's fault blame the NHS", and not thinking about how much of effect commission based pay has here either.

Picking up on points from Suffolk's post ...

As a Quaker I volunteered to work as a chaplaincy ward visitor in our local hospital, so basically, after a short training course, to visit patients on the wards as part of the chaplaincy team (though not a chaplain)
After training we were all assigned a ward to visit. Now, I''m pretty sure that no-one was given a maternity ward to visit, even though from my experience as a mother many people might welcome a friendly person to listen to their thoughts and feelings at a momentous time in their lives (on the birth of their baby) We were all fully CRB'd, so why were these wards in particular apparently out of bounds - and yet not for the Bounty ladies ?

We need a whole culture change on the post-natal wards, where women's needs are truly put first (and the babies too of course)

The Bounty Mutiny is just the start !
Once we've taken over this ship just think what exciting new waters we can charter

And actually I think I slightly prefer "Mutiny on the Bounty" to "Bounty Mutiny" .....

Putting the Mutiny first and Bounty second !

They are just one of the things we need to throw overboard !

(Oh wait, that analogy doesn't quite work there does it - but you know what I mean )

that other petition agrees with half our points though - that it should be opt-in at most, for example.

Damn, you lot are good. I came on to tell you about the Early Day Motion but you're way ahead of me.

If you get any responses from trusts or MPs that you think we could be adding to our pages, do please mail them to us at [email protected], FAO campaigns team.

Thanks