Campaign to end Bounty sales reps' access to maternity wards - please read and share

[JustineMumsnet]

Evening all,

Thanks to all of you who have taken the time to fill in our survey on Bounty and share your stories - from the initial idea onwards, this really is a campaign that has been prompted by your concerns, as posted on Mumsnet.

The survey showed that a very large majority (82%) felt it was unacceptable for Bounty sales reps to be on hospital wards, as well as highlighting a number of other concerns about Bounty reps' selling practices, so we're calling on government to end this kind of direct selling/data collecting on NHS wards. See more here.

It's clear, from the survey results, that, even after Bounty updated its code of conduct (these results only include users who gave birth from May 2012 - the full results containing prior data are here) its practices leave a lot to be desired, and that Mumsnet users feel very strongly that the maternity ward is no place for a hard sell, so we're really hoping that government will listen to us.

Here's how you can help...

Please sign the petition

If you're on Twitter please tweet your support for the campaign with the hashtag #bountymutiny and the following link:

tiny.mn/1bsnpNw

If you're on Facebook then please like campaign page our campaign page (there's a FB link to click at the top on the left).

If you're on Google+, well, you'll know what to do.

We'll, of course, keep you posted here about the campaign and any developments. Thanks to everyone for their stories, honesty and input. Here's hoping we can make a difference!

ROFLMAO

SuffolkNWhat, did you see what ‏@westernsussex tweeted 4hours ago...

CQC scandal shows we can't subcontract responsibility for patient safety - WSHT dep chief exec's message for staff

Thats an open goal if ever I saw one.

dammit, confusing sussex and suffolk AGAIN! I'm none too bright...

But thats rather priceless all the same.

I got a visit from a Bounty rep the day after my DS birth by emergency CS, 3 months premature and weighing less than 2lbs. I had had pre-eclampsia and a few hours before had been frantically asking the MW if I was going to die. I had just been notified that DS had a bleed on his brain, he was in the SCBU fighting for his life and I was expecting bad news at any moment.

So I was in no fit state to deal with the woman when she turned up, especially when she gave the impression it was all part of procedure 'all new mums get their goody bag!'. I got the usual stuff including a nappy that could have done DS as a cot and a pack of formula milk for a 6 mo when we feared he would not live that long (he did btw albeit disabled).

The whole experience underlined for me just how surreal and horrifying the circumstances were. I would say that this Bounty visit significantly added to my trauma.

Should Bounty be allowed on Hospital wards?
Our survey says "uhah!"

Babycentre.co.uk survey in response to campaign

Wow...someone got an actual reply...I haven't...

Spotted this thread earlier today:

Did anyone see Daybreak this morning where a woman representing Bounty claimed Mumsnet was in competition

www.itv.com/itvplayer/daybreak

6:43am Interview with Mumsnet rep
7.43am Interview with Bounty rep, including interview with Health Minister.

Bounty Rep stated that MN set up the survey deliberately in a way to invite criticism and lead women into saying they didn't agree with Bounty. (They didn't 'accept' Mumsnet's survey).

Ironically Daybreak's own survey said that 98% of viewers thought that sales reps should be banned from maternity wards.

My response to the programme and Bounty after having watched it is the following:

Dear Bounty Spokesperson.

Mumsnet are the competition? So how many contracts do they have with NHS Trusts? Do Mumsnet directly approach women in hospital without invitation?

Mumsnet make money from advertising. They do not however use aggressive sales practices to do this because they do not have sales reps on maternity wards.

Bounty's main source of income comes from selling photographs and collecting data for sale to other groups from direct contact with women on maternity wards.

Would you like to explain why they are the competition when actually they work in completely different ways?

I think you may be completely missing the point about why there is an issue here. Its not about advertising revenue and how you both may have similar customers; its about HOW you go about making contact with women and whether its aggressive and intrusive or not.

Perhaps you could stop putting the idea of money making, ahead of women you claim to serve. You know... a bit more in line with Mumsnet's business model which aims to work with women, building a trust and listening to their concerns, rather than see them as something to simply be exploited. Working with women seems to be a lucrative marketing approach for MN...

Would you also like to explain why this issue has been in The Telegraph, The Independent and Guardian, long before MN picked up the cause. Would you also like to explain why North Lancashire NHS Trust decided in 2009 to stop using Bounty because of the 'wider public health and clinic governance issues'. Why did they do this? Is this because they are Bounty's competitors.

Can you explain why 19,000 people have signed a petition and many of them have posted why they support the petition based on personal experience. Did Mumsnet put them up to it? Did Mumsnet stir up so many people into some sort of hysterical reaction out of nothing?

Don't you think thats a tiny bit patronising, and frankly dismissive and rude, to all the women who shared their stories? Many of which are very emotional and personal.

Oh and what about the 10% of mothers who aren't happy with you, according to your OWN surveys?

If anything, Mumsnet stance is more likely to damage them as it, hopefully, will force you to adjust your business practices and will make you more likely, to put you into direct competition rather than in different areas of the same market.

You are, cynical, vindictive vultures who will stop at nothing and have no conscious about how low you will stoop to carry on with the way you have done things for years. If you weren't you wouldn't be defending yourself in this way.

Ad hominem attacks are the last resort of those who can not attack their 'opponent's' arguments.

Perhaps you would like to truly review what your practices are and get the fuck off maternity wards.

^I think the word you are struggling to find and say is "Sorry".

Yours

Lovingly and Affectionately

RedToothBrush

xxx

Way to go RTB, this nonsense has to end!

Just watched Katie on Daybreak, she did very well despite the presenters! Couldn't watch Bounty without watching the whole nasty show and it kept restarting

I'm hoping to get on a laptop Monday so I will be spending off lots of emails! I've been spending them from my work account was the local hospital is in my area and I've been asking it as a parent and for the magazine. I think I'll be adding pages next edition!

Well done RTB

with regards to your vendetta against bounty i feel that its time we had our say. I am and have been a bounty lady for almost 10 years now and i certainly do not regard myself as a sales rep. This is a job which I love and I am passionate about. I resisted coming onto this website until very recently and when I did and read through the posts - it definately does not reflect on our working practices. your website has demonised bounty and this also does not reflect the views of the mums we meet on a daily basis. I am also a mum of 3 and a gran of a little baby whom i photographed within my hospital. We were delighted with our products which may I add would have cost a lot more if I had booked a private photograph not to mention the inconvenience. This is the general consensus of a lot of mums who come back time again to have there newborns photographed and receive there bounty bags. May i also add over my many years doing this I can count on one hand the amount of complaints I have had. Maybe its about time you ask the many thousands of mums who are registered with us what they thought instead of campaigning to have us removed. Speak to the majority not the minority! it seems you are taking great pleasure in your campaign and if you succeed i can assure you a service we provide will be greatly missed by both mums and midwives alike.

What were your 'hand full' of complaints about Sp2013?

Sp2013. Would you like me to post the LEGAL definition of commercial practice here again?

Probably not, but I will anyway, as its CRUCIAL to understanding why people are complaining.

?commercial practice? means any act, omission, course of conduct, representation or commercial communication (including advertising and marketing) by a trader, which is directly connected with the promotion, sale or supply of a product to or from consumers, whether occurring before, during or after a commercial transaction (if any) in relation to a product;

So if you are getting money in return for a commercial practice - which could include collecting data for sale to a third party at a later date, you are a sales rep, whether you want to admit it of not. Your company are buying access from the hospital in return for marketing data, which you collect.

It is not a 'vendetta' as you loving put it. I really wish that Bounty representatives, whether they be spokeswomen on the tv or Bounty Ladies themselves would wake up and start LISTENING to what is being said instead of continually dismissing the same complaints that are being repeated by literally hundreds, if not thousands, of women now.

I would ask Bounty to seriously consider WHY there is such a disparity between the number of complaints you are receiving and the number that are appearing on the internet. The answer is important because it reflects how powerless women feel and how pointless they feel a complaint is. You should be treating all complaints, seriously. Whether they be on this forum or any other internet forum. You are not at the moment.

Bounty are NOT being demonised by Mumsnet, if there is such a significant number of complaints. Bounty simply NEED to start properly addressing this issue. Mumsnet are only the latest in a long line of organisations that are seeing a problem with this. They most certainly are not alone in feeling like this.

The more you and your company wilfully and deliberately ignore this issue, the more you anger people. It is therefore in your interests to act now, to limit this damage to your reputation.

May I also remind you, that whilst complaints might be a minority, ANY complaint is unacceptable. The general consensus, is actually totally irrelevant, if its still causing problems to a small number of people.

Oh and don't you get paid on a commission basis?

"We were delighted with our products" - perhaps you were a little biased ?

So, you took a picture of your grandchild that you were all pleased with - something many parents and grandparents could do very well with modern digital cameras. And a completely different experience for your daughter or DIL than having a stranger taking her baby's picture and asking her for personal data to sell on to other companies.

My main issue is simply that commercial pressures should have no place on a maternity ward. They have invaded almost every corner of life and I feel their presence on wards is one step too far. Simply not helpful.

Sadly those commercial pressures have sometimes led to stress (of varying seriousness) for some new mothers and on more than one occasion to serious unwarranted distress at a very vulnerable time.

Just because you work for them don't feel you have to defend them here ?
That's going beyond the call of duty !
It's not personal, honestly.
The policy and practice is wrong - time to end it.

Example one
For 11 days I had the Bounty ladies come in every morning asking me if I was sure I didn't want their very expensive photo's. And they would come up with a new idea every morning after a while.

It is just not appropriate to target a group of new mums (and dads) who are in a vulnerable. Do they allow sales people into children's wards or those with mental health issue? No.

Example two
I did enjoy the bounty packs, especially the little booklets that tell you what to expect each week/month, I found it really helpful as a first time mum. But what I didn't enjoy was the pushy way the reps try to sell you photos, insist on taking your details etc.

I've only just now stopped receiving junk calls and mail through giving my details to bounty and that's cos a lovely lady in 13-18 forum told me where I could register to stop junk calls and mail. It has been so much hassle and I never even wanted to give my details in the first place, I just would have said anything to get them to shut up and leave me alone - after a 44 hour labour I was exhausted!

You should just be able to get the bounty packs without having all that - they should give them to the midwives to hand out.

So no, I don't believe that anyone other than healthcare professionals and personal visitors should be allowed onto maternity wards to harass women when they're at their most vulnerable.

Guess on whose forum the above were posted. I'll give you all a clue... it begins with B.

Sp2013 - do you think you should be sold the rights to collect data and sell on other wards? If not, why not?

New mothers don't have much time to complain.

"Maybe its about time you ask the many thousands of mums who are registered with us"

Umm, SP2013 you seem to think for some reason that none of the posters on MN are registered with Bounty? I am, and I'm quite sure I'm not the only one. Doesnt mean I'm happy with having a sales rep on a hospital ward though, one does not equal the other.

I didnt realise I had reason to complain when my DCs were born by the way, my rep was fine and I just assumed Bounty were part of the NHS!

But having a nice rep still doesnt mean they should have unrivalled access to women recovering from childbirth. Its fucking ridiculous! I honestly don't understand how anyone doesn't get this point!!?

And every so often we have another random "first time poster" popping on here to say how much they loved their photos and their one poxy nappy and I just feel like screaming, YOU ARE MISSING THE FUCKING POINT!!!

I shall make no comment about this.

www.crazywithtwins.com/2013/06/30/why-im-against-the-bounty-mutiny/