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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

just had a run in with the maternity ward bounty photographer

804 replies

StateofConfusion · 21/12/2012 13:17

And having previously defended them and loved my pictures of my eldest children todays 'rep' has made me agree they need to be removed from wards!

She arrived originally before breakfast turned on the lights and opened curtains waking me and the other Mum up, then continued to talk over the peadiatrician who was checking my dd over.

Eventually she sulked off but apparently came back when I was asleep (how dare I?) Last time she came back as I'd just settled dd and was eating lunch which had just arrived.

I said No photos at the minute thanks she got most insistant that its for security reasons?? (I'm going home today) and said she'd just lean round and take them, dd was asleep on my lap in a v pillow whilst I ate. I said again, not right now I'm eating she left brochures and went off muttering quite loudly.

I'm hormonal so ofc this has upset me, but not as much as the first time mum across they way! WHY are these people allowed to just walk around a maternity ward being so fucking rude!

OP posts:
JugglingMeYorkiesAndNutRoast · 22/12/2012 18:02

by so many others

Svrider · 22/12/2012 18:10

I feel I was totally ripped off by the bounty rep, at a very vulnerable time
I absolutely thought she was a member of staff (had v. Similar uniform and had I'd badge)

Interestingly enough I'd decided I wasn't going to be ripped off again with dc3

I was very clear I didn't want any photos
She looked into his cot and said "bloody hell, I'm surprised you don't want photos"

Dc3 has a cleft lip

JenFrankincenseAndMyrrh · 22/12/2012 18:11

Sainsbury's freebies are so much better. We were getting a pack of nappies each week for free at one stage.

SarahWarahWoo · 22/12/2012 18:11

I met one and she gave me a form for child benefit and for a minute I genuinely believed that she was some sort of official they shouldn't be allowed free access to the maternity wards, just wrong.

(I declined pictures as wasn't feeling my best and a bit shocked at the suggestion tbh)

FrillyMilly · 22/12/2012 18:13

I am shocked that in these times of high security and fear of infection that any unnecessary people are allowed on maternity wards. With DC1 the bounty lady came round when I was on my own. After a long and exhausting labour I really didn't know what was going on. I assumed she was a member of staff. The photos were shit and so was the pack. With DC2 I was discharged straight from delivery so didn't see the bounty lady at all.

I don't understand why bounty supply nappies and wipes to SCBU. Where do bounty source these nappies as they are owned by a media company not a baby product manufacturer. Do they supply these for free? Why wouldn't Nhs source these straight from the manufacturer.

5madthings · 22/12/2012 18:17

bounty is a load of shite!

i do have the pics from ds1 and tbf its an ok picture, but with ds2 the lady stuck a dummy in his mouth as he was fussing, the same dummy i had seen her stick in another babies mouth just two mins before, not washed or sterilsed inbetween uses. she got really huffy with me when i complained and said she didnt know why mothers where 'so precious about their babies' all hers had dummies blah blah blah!! Angry

with ds3 i was discharged straight from delivery and never saw a bounty lady, a midwife gave me a bounty pack, actually i think it was in a cupboard in the delivery room waiting for me.

with ds4 i had to stay in as he had breathing issues and the lady was realy pushy despite me saying i wasnt interested and no i didnt want his picture taking as he was struggling to breath (chest recessing etc and needing blood tests to check he was ok)

with dd i was just very abrupt and told them to go away, she said about the child benefit forms and i told her i had already downloaded the forms, she walked off leaving the bounty pack on my bed.

each time i went through the bounty pack, took out the little pot of sudocream and any other useful freebie, i think there was some washing powder? and wipes and threw the rest of it in the bin at the hospital.

these sales operatives have NO place in a hospital, end of, it would never be allowed in any other situation and its wrong.

and as for the supplying wipes etc to the hospital, my hospital always just provided cotton wool, we were told to bring our own nappies, tho they had a few for emergencies. there was no wipes or cream or baby wash, and why should their be baby wash its not necessary and is actually harsh on babies newborn skin!

5madthings · 22/12/2012 18:17

and state congratulations, having seen your new dd on fb she is a cutie pie! i hope you are resting up now you are at home and all is going well xxx

MrsReiver · 22/12/2012 18:18

Really Jen? I'm off to investigate Sainsbury's.....

FrameyMcFrame · 22/12/2012 18:19

I don't know if it is different now but 12 years ago I definitely did not understand what I was agreeing to and signing. Money was tight, I wouldn't have agreed to it because I knew Icouldn't afford it but I really think the woman took advantage of my mental/physical/emotional state.,

5madthings · 22/12/2012 18:20

svrider please tell me you complained? that vile woman should have been fired!

Whistlingwaves · 22/12/2012 18:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

5madthings · 22/12/2012 18:22

i had ds1 at 20, was preg at 19 and i didnt have a clue about the bounty people i am sure i htought it was someone officially attached to the hospital etc.

oh i remember another thing about the bounty woman with ds2, he was a bit phlegmy when he was newborn, just the usual newborn mucus, which he possetted up in the first few days, but she told me i shouldnt be bfeeding him and that he would choke and new mums today dont know what htey are doing, apparently i shouldnt have fed him till he coughed it up... ermm he never coughed it up, it all wnet into his tummy and he then vomitted it up, very common in newborns i think as they dont have much of a cough reflex!

Longtallsally · 22/12/2012 18:24

Have just read this thread end to end and am Shock and Angry for you all. There are so many similarities between the bad stories that it suggests that these salespeople are trained in the awful techniques you describe.

Will definitely sign the petition. So Sad for some of you having to have put up with treatment like this.

FrillyMilly · 22/12/2012 18:27

Looks like one PCT has grown wise to bounty. Sorry if this has been linked to already.

www.lancashirechildrenstrust.org.uk/enewsviewer/frmDcDnLd.asp?id=9321

Apparently in blackpool they are trialling mama packs as an alternative. Looks much better than the mini sudocrem

HECTheHallsWithRowsAndFolly · 22/12/2012 18:29

I am not surprised that the top brass at Bounty gave MNHQ the brush off.

The know that the hospitals are not going to stop them coming and harassing new mothers, because they pay them for access to us.

So we don't matter to them. They don't even have to pretend that we do. They clearly think the NHS isn't going to stop them, regardless how we feel.

Sad thing is - I suspect they're right.

It will take a LOT to change things.

RedToothbrush · 22/12/2012 18:32

Frilly I'm going to post the text on that document as its important and I'm not sure everyone will read otherwise:

Issues with Bounty, Infant Feeding Information and wider Public Health concerns

What is Bounty?
Bounty is a company whose primary purpose is to promote commercial products at a time when new parents are undergoing a transition in spending patterns. It uses the NHS to deliver advertising from a range of companies to target pregnant women, newly delivered women and parents for up to a year after birth and beyond. It appears to sell on the database it develops to third parties.

Contact occurs at several points
? Pregnant women receive a Bounty pack at the booking visit with the midwife
? On admission to hospital women in labour receive the overnight essentials pack
? Whilst on the postnatal ward newly delivered women receive the new mother pack
? On discharge from the ward specifically for first baby
? On discharge from the ward for subsequent babies
? Packs issued via the NHS then provide access for parents to collect a Bounty Weaning Pack through local shops and stores

What are the issues with Bounty and Infant Feeding marketing?
Baby Friendly UNICEF (UK) Accreditation requires us to ensure that all materials given to pregnant women and mothers are accurate and effective and adhere to the World Health Organisation Code of Marketing of Breastmilk Substitutes and subsequent resolutions. Considerable time and effort would be required to monitor the ever-changing contents of these packs to ensure that BFI status is not compromised.

Bounty?s statement (October 09) that it will no longer promote weaning foods or toddler milks from early 2010 does not make clear whether or not it intends to comply with the WHO Code of marketing and subsequent resolutions which also cover bottles, teats and dummies. So, although this move is welcome the packs will still need to be monitored.

Bounty has included booklets for new parents which have contained misinformation about infant feeding.

Bounty has made no statement on how it uses information provided to them by parents who sign up for further information. Bounty uses the promotional strap line: ?Discover Bounty, your one-stop pregnancy, baby and parenting club?

Key points
Infant Feeding
? Even though Bounty has undertaken to remove advertising of baby milks and foods from 2010, all materials still need to be regularly monitored for inclusion of advertising of bottles, teats and dummies and to check the information in any booklets that are produced.

Wider Public Health Concerns and Governance Issues
? Endorsement by association is significant

? There is concern that parents can conclude that products advertised by Bounty via the NHS are endorsed by the NHS and health professionals.

? Permission has not been sought or obtained from individual health professionals for their professional registration status to be used as endorsement in this way and this could potentially undermine or break codes of conduct and professional standards

? The overload of advertising information in the packs could easily mean that important and key documents (e.g. birth registration & process) which are currently included in Bounty packs amongst the leaflets, will get overlooked. DH advises that this method should not be used to distribute DH/NHS information.

? Bounty Representatives speak to all new mothers on the postnatal ward or take contact details of mothers who have delivered in the hospital and who then take early discharge. This targeting of mothers for marketing purposes provides a ?captive, no choice audience? via the NHS and takes place at a vulnerable and impressionable time for new mothers and parents.

? Other issues include
o the cost of the storage of the packs on NHS premises
o the heavy impact of the plastic, paper and transport used in this form of marketing via the NHS.

Bounty and NHS North Lancashire
The issue of Bounty commercial pack distribution has been discussed at several Infant Feeding Information Team meetings after concerns about their contents were raised by staff and users. Bounty representatives were invited to meet with this team to further explore the issue. The Infant Feeding Project Board discussed Bounty in April 08 and ?concurred there is strong support for discontinuing the arrangement with Bounty? and sent information about the concerns to the Heads of Midwifery for their consideration.

Commissioners at NHS North Lancashire provided additional funding for designated Infant Feeding Coordinator posts at both hospitals on several conditions including specifically that Bounty was withdrawn by the end of March 09.

Bounty and Blackpool Fylde and Wyre NHS Foundation Hospital Trust
The Head of Midwifery has agreed to withdraw Bounty packs and is developing alternative process for distribution of the legitimate NHS information that was previously included within the packs.

Bounty and Royal Lancaster Infirmary
Feedback is still awaited as to the date when Bounty packs will be withdrawn.

In conclusion
The risks to further delays in the withdrawing of Bounty packs via the NHS would necessitate a rigorous interim process to be established whereby the contents of the packs are regularly checked, and items withdrawn by hand in cases where
? breaches of the WHO Code and subsequent regulations occur
? incorrect Infant Feeding Information is included
? marketing information conflicts with the full range of current Public Health messages
? risks highlighted to the potential challenges of choice; inappropriate use of NHS resources conflicting with NICE Guidance and potential breaches to professional standards and codes of conduct

This paper has been prepared by:
Infant Feeding Consultants; Senior Public Health Improvement Specialist and Assistant Director of Public Health in consultation with members of IFIT and the Infant Feeding Project Board for NHS North Lancashire. November 2009

Appendix 1 ? Recent concerns with Bounty

? Booklets contained in the packs distributed by hospitals earlier this year contained adverts from Cow and Gate, Hipp Organic, Muller and Petits Filous. These included inaccurate information of the timing of the introduction of solid foods. They also included prominent logos for companies predominantly associated in the UK with breastmilk substitutes which constitutes a violation of the Code under Article 6.2 and sought indirect contact with parents via their websites, which constitutes a violate of Article 5.5

Unicef (UK) Baby Friendly therefore advised these books were not acceptable in Baby Friendly accredited hospitals and should be removed.

? The Bounty antenatal pack currently distributed at local hospitals contains a leaflet by HiPP organic, manufacturers of formula milk and weaning products. This breaches the WHO Code.

? The current Bounty Weaning Pack contains samples of baby foods inappropriately labelled for use from 4 months.
o Cow and Gate Cheesy Sauce sachet labelled for use from 4 ? 6 months
o A box of Cow and Gate "Open up to a healthy start to weaning" containing a pot of puree (4 - 36 months), a fruity cereal sachet (4 months onwards) and a pot of "baby balance" (4+months)

Issue with other products
? Previous concerns about items included in the hospital distributed packs have been products such as cartons of Red Bull and toothpastes without fluoride; inappropriate marketing of toothpaste which conflicts with oral health strategies

Appendix 2 ? Statement from DH

The DH position on Bounty
In an email sent to regional Infant Feeding Coordinators September 09, Amy Lim from DH said:

?It has recently come to our attention that some individual NHS trusts have been coming to independent agreement with Bounty to distribute NHS leaflets (namely Off to the Best Start) through the Bounty packs. We have recently reconsidered whether or not Bounty packs are an appropriate medium for distribution of DH/NHS literature and decided against for a number of reasons. If local NHS trusts come to separate agreements regarding the use of Bounty packs this potentially undermines our stance on the use of Bounty packs. Please find below a statement regarding DH's position towards Bounty, which you can share with local Heads of Midwifery, Children's Services etc as necessary.

Kind regards

Amy

Amy Lim
Maternal & Infant Nutrition
Department of Health
020 7972 1373

  • Bounty's public-facing website makes it clear that their primary purpose is to promote commercial products at a time of transition in spending patterns. Many infant feeding leads and health professionals believe that the use of the health care system as a vehicle to promote goods to vulnerable new parents is unethical.

  • Recent experience shows that, despite strict guidelines, items that breach the Baby Friendly Initiative-compatible agreements do slip through. It is costly, in terms of time, people and expertise, to set up a process to police and prevent such breaches. Such actions are always after the event: it is not possible to recall any packs that have already gone to mothers, and it is not practical to recall packs which have not yet been given out but are already in the system.

  • Errors like this put hospitals' BFI accreditation at risk. It could potentially be extremely embarrassing for DH, while devoting large sums of money to supporting the implementation of BFI to also be placing literature in the Bounty pack which causes a hospital to fail BFI accreditation.

  • Bounty's business website showcases (on the front page) a case-study of how HiPP used Bounty to market their products to pregnant women and new mothers. As manufacturers of infant formula milk and weaning products, promotion of HiPP and similar brands also promote awareness by association of infant formula to exactly the target audience we would most wish to protect from such advertising.

  • The 2008 NICE guidelines on Maternal and Child Nutrition state, with regards to breastfeeding education 'Do not provide written materials in isolation but use them to reinforce face-to-face advice about breastfeeding', which indicates that including leaflets such as 'Off to the Best Start' in Bounty packs will be at best ineffective, and at worst may actually replace face-to-face advice.

Appendix 3 ? NICE Guidance

NICE postnatal care guidelines
?The distribution of commercial packs, for example those given to women when they are discharged from hospital, which contain formula milk or advertisements for formula should not be used?.

NICE PH11 Mother and Child Nutrition
Recommendation 10
Do not provide written materials in isolation but use them to reinforce face-to-face advice about breastfeeding.

Infant formula, Recommendation 14
Avoid promoting or advertising infant or follow-on formula. Do not display, distribute or use product samples, leaflets, posters, charts, educational or other materials and equipment produced or donated by infant formula, bottle and teat manufacturers.

RedToothbrush · 22/12/2012 18:33

So in summary ONE PCT has kicked them out FOR HEALTH REASONS!!!!!

EwanHoHoHozami · 22/12/2012 18:38

Marking place - I had a horrible experience with one of these women and will happily sign anything that gets them out of the wards.

Although Shiny Dave is such a fan of private funding initiatives I think we'll have a job...

orangeberries · 22/12/2012 18:47

I just wanted to add that I had a similar encounter with a Bounty rep for all my children and when with my fourth child we said we weren't interested (DH Happened to be there) we were faced with very rude comments. I felt very vulnerable and was happy DH was there to tell her to go away. Midwives were present when she treated us so badly and didn't utter a word, they seemed to be more on her side than ours tbh. That surprised me even more.

Horrified this is allowed to continue - what next? People selling drinks after you gave birth, maternity bras and babygros? grrrrrrr

whomovedmychocolate · 22/12/2012 18:54

I'm afraid I'm not as nice as you lot. I got the 'you can't get child benefit without this' - snatched the pack, took the forms, pointed out they belong to the govt not her, told her to feck off.

Unsurprisingly she didn't offer to photograph DS after that Grin

whomovedmychocolate · 22/12/2012 18:55

But you can also get it here www.hmrc.gov.uk/forms/ch2-online.pdf

Narked · 22/12/2012 19:04

[Grin] WMMC

LillethTheCat · 22/12/2012 19:24

Remarking place.

Luckily for me I didn't have it too bad, in fact its only since reading this thread that I realise who exactly they are and I dont like it. My best experience was with DD1 as I went into labour 4:30AM, she was born 7:32AM and I left the hospital at 11:30AM. The photos of DS were nice and we did get them. The photos of DD2 were not very good so we didn't buy, but we weren't pushed into it. Feel really sad for those with the horror stories. They are just horrible.

All sales people annoy me and a lot of them say that they are not sales people. In fact I think a great many of the sales people genuinely dont think they are sales people at all as that it the spiel they've been fed by the company that they work for.

Looking forward to signing this petition when it gets up and running. I agree with those above that we should also be trying to get the NHS to do something about it too. I feel that they are also to blame for bounty.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 22/12/2012 19:29

I was asked if I wanted a photo, said no and off she went.
Seems I was lucky.
I am horrified at some of the stories on here and I'd be happy to sign the petition.

Xenia · 22/12/2012 19:31

They should not be allowed. I have managed to avoid maternity wards as either had the baby at home or had a 6 hour transfer home, but I think they are very intrusive. The hospitals probably like the money they make from it all but they ought to manage without it.

Perhaps those against them should try photographing the bounty photographers and record what they say and how they intrude and then we can make via people's contributions a composite video on youtube of how negative their effect it.

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