just had a run in with the maternity ward bounty photographer

[StateofConfusion]

And having previously defended them and loved my pictures of my eldest children todays 'rep' has made me agree they need to be removed from wards!

She arrived originally before breakfast turned on the lights and opened curtains waking me and the other Mum up, then continued to talk over the peadiatrician who was checking my dd over.

Eventually she sulked off but apparently came back when I was asleep (how dare I?) Last time she came back as I'd just settled dd and was eating lunch which had just arrived.

I said No photos at the minute thanks she got most insistant that its for security reasons?? (I'm going home today) and said she'd just lean round and take them, dd was asleep on my lap in a v pillow whilst I ate. I said again, not right now I'm eating she left brochures and went off muttering quite loudly.

I'm hormonal so ofc this has upset me, but not as much as the first time mum across they way! WHY are these people allowed to just walk around a maternity ward being so fucking rude!

Dontbeatmeup - surely that requires woman understanding what had happened was wrong and knowing who to report it too, and having the energy with a newborn to go through a reporting proceedure. Most will just put it behind them, that's how people like that get away with it.

The principle of someone who isn't NHS staff having access to the wards for commerical gain outside of visiting hours is plain wrong, even if the staff all were 100% well behaved and helpful.

and as far as them taking women's addresses off their notes - the DPA required personal info to be appropriately secured, which this is not. It is a failing on the part of the hospital trust and if it's happened to you complain loudly

Was shocked at the conversations that were had that were so tactless and upsetting for the mums. There was a discussion on mumsnet earlier in the year about these two practices so had heard this before, and wasn't surprised when then follow up e mail was sent to employees. I sincerely hope that all of the employees have stopped this.

It's not going to stop because hospitals are not going to give up the money they get.

That's the bottom line. The hospitals have made the decision to give access to us at this time because they get cash. It's not bounty we should be focusing on.

It's the NHS.

Not read whole thread but you should write two formal complaints. One to bounty, pref with name of that woman, but one to the hospital asking them to ban them from the ward.

Also congrats on new baby.

I think Bounty is rubbish - women should be given a high quality birth & baby manual during pregnancy with considered links to valuable sources of support, such as ante-natal classes, their local NCT, nurseries and child-minders, toddler groups etc. Not just a couple of free samples from a commercial company which has no real concern for their well-being. And do they still provide "Emma's diary" - how rubbish is that ? As an early years practitioner as well as a mother I know that parents are their children's first and most important educators. The information given to new mothers should reflect this and not just be the low level rubbish about how to get 50p off your next packet of nappies

I don't really remember my brief encounter with the photographer (I vaguely remember some photo was probably offered which we declined) though some people's stories are shocking. But I know what I really needed is some compassionate empathic care from nurses or others. Whilst I was on the post-natal ward no-one asked me how I was feeling or how the birth went, or how I was coping/ getting on with my newborn (DC1) There was some support and check-ups for physical things such as whether feeding was established etc. And that was it !

So, I think the sort of person they do need on PN wards is someone trained in counseling who can listen to women's experiences. Whether this is a professional (eg nurse) or well-trained, vetted, and supervised volunteer I think this would make a huge difference to women's experiences of early motherhood and to their well-being.

So by Dontbeatmeupitsxmas own admission on this thread midwifes are telling outsiders confidential information about patients so she knows which ones she can approach and which she can't.

Hmm.

And the hospitals don't seem to be aware of how merely allowing salespeople access to people on wards means they are automatically breaching trading standards by putting vulnerable patients in a situation where they are more likely to make decisions that they wouldn't normally make under any other circumstances.

Bounty make money. And as long as they are enabled to do so by the NHS they will always argue that they wouldn't be allowed to do it, if it breeched the rules.

Except it does.

The NHS are protecting Bounty and the NHS are acting for their own financial benefit and not in the best interests of patients.

Campaign needs to be aimed at hospitals and politicians not Bounty.

HECTheHallsWithRowsAndFolly - you are so right. The NHS is allowing this to happen in lots of hospitals, to vunerable women.

I do not think anyone other than medical\hospital staff and close family should be allowed on any ward in any hospital.

I agree.

What we need is a campaign to get the NHS to change its rule on this. To see that it is confidentiality issue, a duty of care issue and a common decency issue.

And to put that before the cash that bounty gives it.

We can get rid of bounty without focusing on them directly at all.

I'm a bit at some of these stories. I'm a mw & work on a pn ward. The Bounty ladies always check with staff first if any woman has a baby in nnu first to make sure they don't go in & ask if any other rooms need avoiding for any other reason. They don't go and wake up women & if I were to get any reports that they do, I'd get on their case! And there is no way they have access to personal details of the women on the ward. Contact details etc... are given out by the women themselves,
I do agree they shouldn't be there, but if they are, sounds like some should get some training as to how to act on a pn ward!

And what a joke to say that during pregnancy 7 out of 10 women "join" Bounty.

You mean people who sign and send off something in Emma's diary for lots of free samples when that's the only pregnancy, birth, and baby info they've been given during ante-natal visits ? Ha !

So MW's are allowed to give out confidential information (baby is in SCBU o their baby has died etc ), to these Bounty ladies?

I was pre warned by MN. The Bounty lady came outside of visiting hours and told me I needed a bounty pack to get CB form. I took pack, but didn't give her any of my details which she accepted.

Why is acceptable for Bounty to pay and be on the ward? Why not Venture photography, or maybe Mother care could come round selling things. It is wrong that the NHS is willing to accept money for access to patients.

It is also wrong for Bounty to take advantage of vulnerable people.

How can we stop this?

Belgina - isn't it a breach of confidentiality to tell the Bounty rep that a woman's baby is ill? I'd think so.
If the NHS is going to continue to let Bounty reps onto wards, their access to patints should be on a strictly opt in basis.

Just get rid Spartacus - that is the clear way forward. Amazing they've got away with this bollocks for so long really. And anyway so many family members have a digital camera or mobile to take a nice picture with these days. If it's for security a nurse could easily do the same and it would provide an easy opportunity for a nice wee bit of friendly encouragement from staff which is often sorely needed.

Doesn't it come down to the fact that sales people should simply not be allowed on NHS wards? (Does this happen in any other circumstance? Are brands allowed to tout their wares at patients in any other department?).

Surely if MNHQ are not able to start a campaign, then us, the masses, streaming support down this thread can set up our own petition and letter writing campaign?

Agree with RedToothbrush that campaign should be targeted at NHS Commissioning Bodies and Government, as they will be the ones that decide policy and whether Bounty can be allowed in hospitals.

Bounty is not to listen to us and end their lucrative business when they have a contract to be there.

Hmm, given that Bounty gave MNHQ the brush off I really think they should officially support this campaign. If it is a conflict of interest then make it broader, ie ban the NHS from selling direct access to patients (I think some one up thread mentioned a non-bounty photographer). MNHQ has some serious clout and if they got behind this things could really happen.

In fact, imagine if MNHQ joined forces with NMHQ! That really would get things going...

Bealos - we certainly can. But I have no idea how to go about something like that.

I don't think there is any breach of confidentiality in saying, lady in bed 2 shouldn't be approached. Lets not demonise these people, they are only doing their jobs. MW and bounty lady. I understand the feelings running high here, but lets get some perspective. They aren't dolling out heroin or stealing our babies.

As justine has said, bounty took note of things said here before, and dontbeatmeup has said it is now a stackable offence to say the photos are for security or you can only get the cb form from them.

Lets hope they have begun to turn a corner and OPs experience is one rogue bounty lady(there may be others, I don't know) because bounty themselves aren't going to stop off their own backs, only when the NHS gets the funding they need to run services without the input of private companies will this sort of this stop.

But Glaikit - there are clearly many other 'rogue' Bounty ladies, as many posters on this thread have shown. Clearly, although they may told not to approach certain women for whatever reason, some obviously don't listen.

They sound awful.

We do have this sort of thing in the US but not this same company...I don't think they get any details and we don't have child benefit forms anyway so they couldn't lie about it.

Someone tried to take a picture of DS when he was born but he was screaming blue murder both times she stopped by, so she never got one. :) I'm due to give birth in May in a teeny tiny little hospital (will probably be the only one in labor there) and I doubt I'll have to worry about it.

"Doesn't it come down to the fact that sales people should simply not be allowed on NHS wards? (Does this happen in any other circumstance? Are brands allowed to tout their wares at patients in any other department?)."

a guy from the WHSmith shop in my local hospital goes around the wards with a trolly selling newspapers, snacks, slippers, toiletries etc. But there is not doubt about who he is, he never goes behind closed curtains and he just shouts from the door of the bay "newspapers, snacks, slippers" then anyone who wants some calls him over. He doesn't approach each patient in turn. He comes around less now as each ward now has a volunteer who can be asked to go down to the shop for patients instead, the volunteer doesn't work for the shop.

I didn't expect such a huge response when I started this, sorry I'm not taking an active part in the discussion as you can imagine I'm pretty busy atm.

I do agree with something raised though, my dp was unable to visit me yesterday, when bounty lady got me, I'd asked if my Mum could take his place as such, hold dd while I showered and help me organise my things for going home, I was told no, yet this women crept out of her cupboard and approach me and harass me when I let my guard down and left my curtain open to eat lunch