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MNHQ

Girls' body confidence - what do you think could improve it?

193 replies

KateMumsnet · 07/01/2011 17:18

Hello everyone!

Lynne Featherstone, the Minister for Equalities, is chairing a Roundtable on Body Confidence at the House of Commons. She wants to get up to speed on the work that various independent groups are doing in this area, in order to champion them within government and get as much support for their work as possible.

One of the topics under consideration is sexualisation, and following our Let Girls Be Girls campaign we've been asked to come up with some proposals. We're going to push for the government to get behind our Lads' Mags campaign - but we also thought it was a good moment to ask for your thoughts more generally about body confidence issues and what, if anything, you'd like to see policy-makers doing.

So do please fire away - what else do you think could be done generally to improve the body confidence of young girls?

OP posts:
WimpleOfTheBallet · 09/01/2011 22:23

I think you put that beautifully scallops...

theriveryou · 09/01/2011 22:34

I would suggest the overthrow of capitalism.

HerBeatitude · 09/01/2011 22:35

Yes scallops and also, the govt doesn't have the excuse that it can't do anything about it. With teh X factor, magazines, marketing, even parenting, it's all in areas where there is a discussion about how far the government has the right to intervene and with the best will in the world, it's a long hard slog to work with companies and parents to get the govt agenda in their mindspace.

In schools, there's no argument that govt has the right to tell them what the priorities are. OFSTED sees to that. This is one area which the govt has the unquestioned right to have not just an influence in, but to dictate the agenda. If they can insist that every incident of racist bullying be reported to the LEA, they can insist on anything really.

DioneTheDiabolist · 09/01/2011 22:36

Seeing women of all sizes and shapes being lauded for their ability. We need our daughters to understand that looks are not as important as intelligence, competence, ability, effort and love.

Yes, it is good to have good physical role models, but I think that by concentrating on physicality (albeit for the best), we are ignoring their deeper needs. Often when children have body issues, they stem from other issues around self worth and control.

scallopsrgreat · 09/01/2011 22:40

Good point HerBea. I was so shocked by the fact that schools actively avoid/deny the issue. FFS sexual harrassment/sexism isn't even in some of their anti-bullying policies. Basic stuff really and that type of stuff along with reporting incidents can be changed easily.

Changing mindsets might be a bit more difficult!

WimpleOfTheBallet · 09/01/2011 22:43

That's so good to hear HerBeatitude...they can change it right now if they want to.

WimpleOfTheBallet · 09/01/2011 22:46

I think it really does need bringing into the open as well... through discussion and workshops within schools...making it ok to talk about in a classroom setting will begin to make students see the effects of even casual sexist comments or actions.

Fenugreek · 10/01/2011 04:01

I agree with the posters who have said that it all starts with the message young girls get at home.

I take a practical approach.

From an early age my daughter had a Big Human Body book, and we used it to talk about how awesome our bodies are. How they can fix themselves, how they can grow babies, how they can make milk, how they can cool down or warm up, how they turn food into poo (a particular favourite with small children!) My children are growing up with the loud message that their bodies are amazing, precious, something to be proud of and looked after.

Being informative about how clever our bodies are, and why we should be appreciative of them. is a message that would translate easily into the classroom of young children.

Lancelottie · 10/01/2011 13:25

Another here who went to an all-girls school (and all-women college, come to that, on the grounds that there'd be enough boys on my kind of degree course without having to share a kitchen with them), so I was startled at the depth of sexist bullying reported on this thread and the report.

I asked both sons (two different 'outstanding' comps) if it happened there. Older boy had to think about it and then said 'yeah, but it's just the idiots... but I think that's why the girls are kind of surprised that I want to talk to them like friends.'

Younger boy said, 'Course it does, all the time, and if you don't do it they call you gay and weirdo and wimp and baby, and even Matthew does it so he's not really as nice as you think he is, is he?' [had rashly held up Matthew as possible nice well-behaved role model for DS2, oops.]

Daughter said, 'They just all call me fat, and the teachers tell me to stop reacting. I think they should tell the boys to stop saying it instead.'

Hear hear.

sethstarkaddersmum · 10/01/2011 13:39

wow Lottie, that post just sums it up doesn't it?
at the risk of sounding a bit 'what about the men' I think dealing with sexist bullying in school will benefit underachieving boys as well as girls: it will help break down the bipartite culture in which boys are meant to be aggressive and rebellious and girls are meant to be passive and compliant.

WimpleOfTheBallet · 10/01/2011 13:40

That's very sad Lanclottie...at least though this thread has enlightened you to what your DC are having to deal with...I spoke to DH about it last night and he was devestated when he remembered at school...callng a girl fridgid for not want to kiss him...aged 12! He said he never even thought about how she might feel...only how he looked to his mates.

Are you going to broach the subject at your DC school? Your poor DD doesn't need that!

As for what your younger son said..so sad...to hear boys being pressured like that.

WimpleOfTheBallet · 10/01/2011 13:42

Yes Sethstar....I think it will have the added benefit of helping to release boys from the awful pressure of appearing to be certain way...which is not a natural part of them.

Lancelottie · 10/01/2011 13:55

Absolutely I'll be taking it up with them (swaps Wimp hat for Mother Tiger hat). The striking thing was that none of them had mentioned it. They all just took it for granted as something that happens at school.

sethstarkaddersmum · 10/01/2011 14:29

how interesting that they never thought to mention it - hope this doesn't seem like a frivolous analogy, but it's a bit like the school dinners thing where lots of parents had no idea their kids were being fed crap until they saw the Jamie's School Dinners thing and quizzed their kids, having assumed that school dinners would of course be nutritious.

WimpleOfTheBallet · 10/01/2011 15:58

That's the thing isn't it. I remember clearly how I felt as a teen...I would have protected my parents from knowing that certain boys called me a "dog" or a "Slag"...or that I got groped.

How could your average 12 year old bring THAT up!?

superv1xen · 10/01/2011 16:16

i did too wimpole i never told my parents that i was being bullied at school as i didn't want to upset them or for them to think i wasn't popular :(

MargaretGraceBondfield · 10/01/2011 16:16

Knee jerk:

Stop the objectification of women.
PE in a choice of gym wear.
Take abuse about weight very very seriously at school
Give MTV and the like a watershed for certain videos, it's amazing what shit they get away with.
Lads mags....showing boys what women they should like.
Ensuring all schools have access to sports that girls may like doing...rounders, tennis etc.

sethstarkaddersmum · 10/01/2011 16:16

that's true, telling your parents wouldn't be the most obvious way to deal with the situation....

WimpleOfTheBallet · 10/01/2011 16:29

superv1xen that's the silly thing isn't it? As a parent I would much rather know the truth....

KalokiMallow · 10/01/2011 16:55

A practical solution which would make a lot of difference, would be forcing magazines/adverts to acknowledge when photos have been retouched.

I know that for me, it was a real shock to discover just how much retouching goes on. There was one image that will always stick by me, of a very slender model, with a toned flat stomach, but who still had a wonderful hourglass figure. Looking at it I couldn't help thinking that is was how I should look.

However than I got to see the original photo.

She wasn't an hourglass figure with a flat stomach, she was almost emaciated, but they'd airbrushed out the sight of her ribs, and smoothed the line of her ribcage and hip bones. The tiny waist was tiny. But not in a way that was healthy.

The figure in the retouched image was actually impossible. And yet it was shown as if it was possible.

2posh2post · 10/01/2011 17:01

It' snot just school boys but men in general that need to be educated men not to make negative comments about food and fat to teenage girls. It is almost always the fathers/ grandfathers that are exhorting their female teens to watch what they eat. It drives me mad as it signals that their looks (slimness specifically) are more important than being interesting, hardworking, kind, funny or happy. I have regularly overheard this happening. Find something else to encourage your girls to concentrate on than their weight and then the girls themselves would learn to be less self conscious.

So, the answer is the education of males to think about something else, and/or keep their thoughts to themselves if they really are so dull as to obsess about girls' weights above their other qualities.

WimpleOfTheBallet · 10/01/2011 17:08

2posh....yes, but in this case we're talking about "Let Girls Be Girls" and we must assume they're influenced by their peers as much as the adults in their lives...and since they are at school so much...which should be a place of learning not of perecution...it seems perhaps a good place to begin.

Start with the young people because adult males and females are already to some degree educated about sexual discrimination in their workplace (not that this always pays off!)

I would also reiterate that girls also need educating about respecting their peers bodies...it doesn't work only in one way.

OTheHugeManatee · 10/01/2011 17:19

Agree with posters above: two practical proposals that could realistically be implemented would be

  1. an obligation on magazines to state when photos have been retouched

  2. an obligation on schools to have proper measures in place to deal with sexist/sexual bullying. If the message were rammed home at school age that it is NOT okay for boys to treat women in this way, and that people will listen if a young woman speaks up, then that would go a long way towards changing the culture of endemic, low-level sexual harassment that women exist in.

FFS, if boys learn all the way through school that it's not only okay to treat women like that, but that it's an effective way to get them to do what you want, then how on earth do we expect men to suddenly become models of propriety in the workplace?

MargaretGraceBondfield · 10/01/2011 17:22

I love that idea that a photo has to say if it's been retouched.

MargaretGraceBondfield · 10/01/2011 17:24

I also think we need to find ways to help girls feel good about the more important aspect of being human, too many teens want to be WAGS...whereas their male counterpart would rather be the footballer.

A decent magazine for women too would be great, these have a way of filtering our attitudes to our young people.