Tuition Fees

[KateMumsnet]

As you've probably heard, the government has announced changes to the way universities are funded, and this means that, starting in 2012, the amount that students will be expected to pay for university tuition will rise to a maximum of £9000 per year. Here's the BBC's story.

We thought we'd test the water to see if there was a strong consensus on this issue amongst MNers, so do let us know what you think. Whether you're for or agin', it would be very useful if you could indicate (briefly!) your reasoning.

Those of you who are firmly against the changes might like to know that there will be a rally for students, future students and their families, on Horse Guards Avenue SW1 at 11:30am tomorrow, Wednesday 10th November. The event is organised by the NUS and supported by the British Youth Council, which includes organisations like the Scouts, the Woodcraft Folk, and St John Ambulance.

Absolutely against.

HE should be accessible to all regardless of how much money they have. You cannot expect a student from a poorer background to have the same attitude to debt as someone from a wealthier background (and who can pay upfront and therefore pay less). And, due to the pay gap and the expectation that women take on caring responsibilities, women will take longer to pay back therefore pay more. And the subjects that will get government funding are male dominated ones. And it will lead to an undervaluation of subjects that do not lead directly to a specific job; a degree is not about paying for the training of employees for business to make money from, it's about the development and sharing of knowledge that has developed in our society over centuries.

I can't believe anyone would be for this. And if they are, I'd love to know their reasons.

My reasons to be against are the same as Aliceworld's. And, to take it one step further, I'm from the US. And left University with about £20,000 of school debt, which I was very lucky my dad paid off for me. Or I'd still be paying it off today, nearly 20 years later.

HE needs to be for everyone. Not just for the rich.

The universities need proper funding - but I do not believe that the Government's policy is the best way forward.

Completely against this!

HE should be available to all, the only entry requirements for this should be based on the academic ability of a student not the financial status of a family.

As a mature student myself I would be at the march tomorrow. However, I have a very important lecture I can't afford to miss as it relates to my dissertation and my Uni is continuing lectures as normal for the day

As a mature student it would stop me going uni. I can just amount handle the amount if debt I will be getting into but this would raise my overall debt by 18k.

I was planning on taking a year out for another DC. Won't be now able to.

Against.

Word on the street is that academics are scrambling to get on the last helicopter out of Universityland.

The government are asking them to look for the shortfall from paying students whilst capping funding within the institution. What kind of business sense is that? I worry about them running our country out of this mess.

Absolutely against the changes. So unfair for those who cannot afford to have their debts wiped away by parents. So unfair that young adults will start their working lives with huge debt - buying their first property will be hard enough with house prices now. I have 3 DCs and can't imagine being able to help them financially at all. I marched the streets of London in the late 80s/early 90s to protest about Maggie stopping the grant system. Her wishes are coming true - brought into being by politicians who probably had grants themselves.
HE should be accessible to all.

It seems there are 2 separate issues here, the cost of fees, and the method of repayment.
I agree with the earlier posters that the costs are being raised far too high, but I am even more concerned that students are being locked into a 30 year repayment scheme that will effectively mean that 50% of the working population will face having to pay an extra 9% income tax for most of their working lives.
If the government insist on bringing this in, then I believe that many able and gifted individuals who have so much to offer our country will simply leave and work in other parts of the world.

I am for (broadly) increasing the student contribution. It seems to me unfair that the costs of higher education should be carried by taxpayers most of whom did not go to university. The expected increase in wages purely from having a degree is enough to pay for the costs of going. Yes one could argue that society as a whole benefits from having a vibrant university sector but the case for general funding is very weak compared to other claims (early years education, more teachers in primary school etc)

To me the key is to have a repayment system that protects those for whom things do not work out, who don't manage to find a good graduate job for example. the proposed changes do this.

I think in the main I would prefer a graduate tax but the differences between this and the proposed sytems are actually quite small when you get down to the nitty gritty

What really incenses me is that the English taxpayer is forking out a large amount for Scottish and Welsh students to pay NO TUITION FEES AT ALL. If they want that privilege - fine - but they should pay for it out of their taxes. The English should not have to contribute - we need all the money to pay tuition fees for our children. Where is the fairness in this? To add insult to injury English students have to pay tuition fees at Scottish and Welsh universities. I thought I read somewhere that Scottish and Welsh students don't have to pay if they come to English universities. If that is true, words fail me!!

I am against. It's been implemented way to fast - there is little opportunity for people to save up for university and therefore will put more people into unecessary debt. People keep refering the US system but the US has system of scholarships and burseries which just aren't available here. My dd's are only 4 and 2 but I 'm already worrying about their future.

whitecloud, the English/Scottish situation is worse than you think - English students will have to pay for Scottish universities (as they do at present, but they are proposing jacking the fees up to match the English unis to prevent an exodus north), but Scottish students, PLUS STUDENTS FROM ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE EU go to Scottish universities for free.

Absolutely against - for Aliceworld's reasons. I'd never have managed to study if I hadn't had a grant. I'm just lucky my heart wasn't set on becoming a doctor or lawyer - even then, we'd never have been able to afford it.

It's such short-term thinking and will really harm this country's future. Why can't we value what education does for individuals, families and society? Why are we doing this and cutting university funding when countries facing worse deficits than ours are increasing HE funding?

Another MNer who thinks HE should be accessible to all.

I can't be there on Wednesday but will be there at the next one. And if there's anyone we can write to or contact (in addition to our MPs), please let me know. That I can do tomorrow!

whitecloud - AFAIK english students pay for tuition at scottish universities and vice versa. the situation is equitable, whether you agree with tuition fees or not

Are you testing the water for a consensus about tuition fees, or for a consensus about MN taking a campaigning stance on them?

I'm against the tuition fees, strongly. But for reasons that I could drone on about at length I would be very much against MN 'campaigning' on the subject.

I'm completely against tuition fees. I work in a rather privileged section of HE and it is already devoid of lower income students (including students of the lower middle income parents). Higher fees won't help this; no matter how good the means-tested bursaries they would only be for the few (or else the system wouldn't work). Besides, the fees are simply going to replace governement funding.

Unlike many (perhaps) I'd rather pay higher rate tax for better services.

I think it would be a very valid MN campaign. Especially as it is likely to hit women harder in the long-run as AliceWorld states below. (Or above if you are not in Classic!)

Absolutely against this. A typical medical student will end up with 56K debt at the end of a 5 yr course. Which is almost three times as much as the current fees/loans. It's messing up the hopes of a whole generation of school leavers.

This government is cutting that amount of funding it contributes to HE by putting the oneous on the students to repay it in later life if they are fortunate enough to fulfil their potential and get a worthwhile career.

Hope the rally gets massive support tomorrow.

As I mentioned in my previous rants posts about this, I cannot believe that this has happened.

The sheer short sightedness of the whole idea leaves me quite aghast. How will these young people, saddled with debts equal to the cost of setting up a business, ever be able to leave home, get a mortgage or indeed set up a business. The unfairness of it is staggering and the idiocy of those people who think that such a debt will not irrevocably damage the future of many young people beggars belief.

Do they think that somehow, if a young person is a graduate, banks will allow them to take on more debt than non graduate - Oh the naivety.

I guess all business development will be the preserve of non-graduates now. Madness.

I wish I could go to the rally but I will be working. I hope they get the message across.

Totally with Aliceworld. I appreciate the theory that since yo upay after it shouldn't make a difference what background you come from. BUT IT DOES.

I'm obviously referring to parents financial situation, but whitecloud back off Scotland. This is not Scotland's fault.

Eleison, can you give your reasons in brief, why an mumnsnet campaign wouldn't be a good idea. Genuinely interested btw.

Totally against this. The access problems in HE are already heartbreaking. This will make them ten times worse and magnify the unfairnessess of our society.

The protest today is jointly organised by the University and College Lecturers' Union -- nobody want university to be a finishing school. I will be attending in that capacity. I think any campaign which supports young people in this fight is a good one.

(Sorry, UCU is not just lecturers -- University and College Union)