TTT.....

[AtLongLast]

OTT / self-indulgent I know, but Toddler Twin Tantrums..... aaargh! Just as well they're so cute too. Ds2 was v funny today wiggling his bum singing uh, uh Bobby' in response to me dancing round the kitchen to Bobby's girl'...

Hi everyone,

Sorry for my absence, been having a trying time
Cerub I'd like to think the whingy crankiness is normal because my two seem to be like it A LOT! We've struggled with every single tooth, only 6 each to go aarrgghh... They still want to be carried around when they start walking, that's when the hanging off your legs all day, every day

Well I could write so much but will try and keep it brief.

Basically I'd got very down in the dumps about not working, DP being Italian a chauvinist pig would prefer me to stay at home with the girls. Initially I loved it but really started feeling the loss of independence, and just the huge changes in my life that motherhood has brought anyway we really talked it all through and I decided that I needed to do something.
I looked into doing an eBay business and various other bits, I also realised with the girls starting nursery in January I have to learn to drive. So basically after a bit of soul searching and copious bottles of wine I booked my driving lessons, and have signed up to do Stella and Dot like my close friend. Do you remember us talking about it a few months ago? I figure the worst case scenario is that I end up with loads of Jewellry. But it seems perfect as I can work evenings and when the girls sleep, so fingers crossed for me

So today I had my first driving lesson, yippee and I've launched my web page for the business and am feeling a bit more positive about things in general. I'm looking forward to getting out child free a bit more too. Cerub I think you asked about family support, my family are 5 hours away, DP's are in Italy except his sister who does babysit on occasion but it's quite rare for us to get out together. He doesn't feel comfortable leaving them but I'm hoping now I'm starting to work again, he'll get a bit more relaxed about it. We can't spend the next 15 stuck in!

Sorry for the me, me post, I'll catch up properly and post tonight x

Hey LVB, first of all massive kudos to you for achieving so much already - I am in awe of the fact you have gone ahead and actually done something unlike myself who moans constantly to no effect - I bet you will love it and it sounds right up your street. I have of course been browsing the site since you linked to it on FB :) You look totally GORGE in your pic!

I also totally hear you on the "huge changes that motherhood brings". DH and I have been having some unexpectedly civilised chats about the division of labour at home, and as I said in my previous post I have been very down about the fact that it appears blindingly obvious that despite being married to someone who on the surface appears to be a very liberal modern man, he does in fact most definitely consider the business of child care to be entirely my job. So he's fine if we 'outsource' it to others (eg. get a babysitter so we can go out together, put them in nursery so I get a break at the moment or more if I start working) but what he's not prepared to do is to actually do any of it himself. He is very 'hands on' when he wants to be and has certainly never been shy of changing a nappy, but what happened to me last week was the fallout from the penny finally dropping that whenever I say that I want to go out of the house to do X, Y, or Z (most of the time these are to do chores, very occasionally to do something for myself) his natural reaction is to be annoyed. I feel like he is a passenger in our lives, dipping in when it suits him but essentially the entire business of looking after the girls is my job. Even when he's not working. So yesterday we all tripped off to the zoo and he came with, but did nothing to get anybody ready other than himself. Today we had another trip out with my mother but he didn't come, because (as I felt it) he wasn't as attracted by the prospect of that day out so just didn't come. So I was out with the girls and my mother, then came home to an empty house because he's out tonight.

Cerub - re your point about whether or not that does represent a division of labour (me cleaning the house) - believe it or not what would have happened normally is that I would have had the girls here and cleaned the house, while he tripped off to the airport. I can't moan in lots of ways, we have a cleaner etc - but I think he thinks that exonerates him from any other responsibility, even when he's actually at home all the time! His argument is that whilst he's not working, he needs to be obviously looking for work but also doing all the things he can't do when he is working - like looking after his health (he's Type 1 diabetic and this always gets neglected when he is working - obviously as he gets older this is less acceptable) and doing training courses to keep him up to date. I accept all of that, but just feel the glooms at the fact that this really is 'as good as it gets' and frankly it isn't good enough re. splitting childcare. I think I need to get a job, but find the thought of it daunting when it seems so unlikely he'll pitch in at all.

Sorry LVB I started this post thinking I'd respond mainly to what you wrote, but ended up writing a me-me-me one instead

Hmm, you both have pretty similar problems at the moment and they boil down to needing more than managing twins all day long and - it sounds like - neither having an OH who 'gets it', how hard it is when there isn't any variety of activity in life.

LVB, are you going to push for getting the girls into nursery sooner than January? It might help to do that while you need to use more energy to get the business going. And I'm sorry, you really need a break to just 'be you' sometimes, neither working nor doing childcare. You have even less prospect of help from family than I do, and by the sound of it have a fair old battle with DP to get any help from any quarter! The jewellery business sounds great and the stuff looks lovely so I'm sure you will make a success of it - bet it is very exciting. I'm a bit worried that it sounds as though you've had to start a business to get any time off from the girls, and will that ever allow you any leisure in that case? Tell me to STFU if I'm talking out of turn, as ever.

Mucky, it also doesn't sound as though your negotiations have changed the landscape much yet. When DH is staying at home rather than coming on a day trip, is he doing any/all of those things that he argues he needs to do? Or is he sitting around watching cricket and reading the paper? To be fair to you, making sure he rests/eats well/keeps up with training/monitors job ads are all things that can be done around looking after the girls, aren't they? Until the division of labour is really resolved, you getting a job is likely to put more pressure on your shoulders because you'll carry on doing all the same stuff plus working on top. I have some experience of this myself after all .

I don't have any answers, just in case it may seem as though I have. We are trying to revise our own workload ratios here, because it is way out of kilter when it comes to anything outside of getting them up in the morning (probably a 60:40 split of him:me). Anything else is either mostly or wholly my 'domain', somehow. Almost all the impact of nursery absence is borne by me. It doesn't help hugely that I seem to really internalise stress and struggle with asking for help (sign of weakness) and try to cope cope cope until it just won't work any more - hence now heading into another fortnight off work courtesy of doc. So any solution to this needs me to sort my own reactions out a bit too, just try to be 'good enough' and not always try to make having twins look easy rather than admit it's actually hard work!

But I know I need my life to allow me more time to be 'me' and not always be rushing about on some errand for other people. If that's you too mucky then we should work on some plans to make it happen! One thing I am realising is that you have to ASK for anything you want, people either don't notice subtle signs or it's not in their interest to let on that they've noticed!

Anyway, on other subjects have finally caved and bought the vtech walker thingy plus a highly repetitive lovely keyboard from ELC that we borrowed from a friend and they loved. Both of them 'play' the keyboard like Jerry Lee Lewis, wiggling their bums to the music! V funny.

Thanks Mucky & Cerub for your support

Not to be too gushy but I've always felt that we are quite like minded on this thread, and it's always been such a support to offload and feel some comfort from everyone else's woes. I think we can all admit, that it is bloody hard work and that in this modern age, even with the most supportive of partner it's never really an equal division of chores.
Cerub I can't wait to start doing the parties to get some time off it doesn't feel like work at all. I love that you straight talk, I am very much like that myself I want to ask SIL to do a day here and there for me, I think once the girls start nursery, DP will start to get more relaxed about other people looking after the girls. I've painted a rough picture but I am pretty happy with my play dates/coffee's and copious amounts of wine/tv in the evenings. I've been to a few concerts, and had nights out with friends, 2 weekends with the girls so it could be a lot worse. I'm hoping that his will be the start of new chapter.
I still want to come and meet at the Army museum but is it doable to do a Sat with partners, I just don't think I can cope on public transport by myself. DP is nice really and would probably get on well with your DH Mucky
I'm away this weekend but could probably do the Saturday after

Cerub we have that V tech walker and the girls still play with it, they love charging at speed around the house. is another good buy

Oh dear - sounds like lots of negotiations. So that it's necessary really. I think I'm lucky on the whole but have inklings at times. I think dp is a closet 50s man at heart and hankers over the `little woman chained to the kitchen sink while he does Manly things'. Not that he sees / accepts that & largely manages to hide it well. He does the SuperDad thing too LadyM, while at other times being engaged far more in work issues than family stuff - drives me nuts!

Well done on the driving / business LVB! Saw earlier & was going to ask for a linky but then saw it (& yes.... fab photo!). Once I get back to work and feel I have some spare me-cash I might well treat myself .

We had a lovely weekend & really got lucky with the camping. Put tent up in brilliant sunshine & a big storm passed over about 10 mins after we sat down. The downpour was a great test (survived) & we didn't see any more rain til the tent came down. Spent Sunday at a village festival with my bro/gf & that was lovely. Only downside was the totally rubbish 1st night sleepwise. Ds1 was a pain & kept waking wailing which was v stressful as he's not the easiest to calm anyway & def not in a tent in a field full of other campers... 2nd night was fine though - so phew!

Wristband met with a pair of scissors at naptime yesterday - mean Daddy! Took ds1 about 20mins to miss it & then I had to follow him around the house checking everything wall... no not there' & wondering loudly where on earth it could have gone. Poor thing woke up crying through the night. He was saying no rabbit' (rabbit is missing in current Pooh Bear book) but when I picked him up to cuddle he started sobbing over & over `I've looked everywhere' so think it was on his mind. Therapy here we come...... .

I am just off to bed and will write more tomorrow but ALL BLESS BLESS BLESS re. DS and the wristband. Their sad little nightmares really get me - Juliet's repeated one is to thrash about wailing "I want to do it for mySELF!", she gets in a right state just like she does during the day

Night all xxx

ALL you always sound the most relaxed, and I'm very inspired to go camping glamping next year. Your boys do just sound so cute. V's latest favourite word is "stuck" as in "oh no, shoes, stuck" super cute. "oh no" is a favourite too, we were going to a friends the other day and it took her a while to answer the door, hence V going "oh no, no key" and sounding very perturbed, bless her F is talking but I find that V is much more confident, clearer and starting to push ahead with making semi sentences and more vocabulary. I suppose it's natural to compare them and I try not to, but it's difficult isn't it...

Yes, the impossible task, not comparing and contrasting their progress. I don't know if we're 'lucky' but if one seems good at one thing, the other excels in something else - it didn't feel that way so much earlier on though as J was always much more advanced with learning to speak than her sister.

The play tunnel is an excellent suggestion for a 'next level' toy Cerub. We got one from Ikea and it can be packed away when not in use - we've had ours over a year and they still love it - now their favourite activity is to sit astride it with a pair of oven gloves spread wide and pretend they're going on an aeroplane, with one of them wearing my scuba goggles and the other a pair of rainbow sunglasses

Lots of excellent and wise advice there Cerub - thank you. It's a funny one with DH, he really does try his hardest in lots of ways but is about as practical as the proverbial choco teapot. He is just such a ditherer, and whereas I'm storming about the place throwing things in the nappy bag, dressing two children, clearing up, drying my hair, and just getting ON with it... he'll be sitting on the bed staring at his socks and wondering whether they match. Or he'll decide at the 11th hour that the appropriate way to help is to blow up the tires on the buggy and then he can't find the pump, and then blah blah blah. He's a loon basically He's always been good at certain things - eg. he's never minded getting up in the night for them and in fact has much more patience to deal with night wakings than me. Even when he's working his socks off, he's never complained about having to get up for them. But during the day, it's as though my 'competence' (I use the term loosely) makes him feel inadequate or something and so he backs off and doesn't do anything. We definitely have to address it though, not least because it's not making me happy.

Am half sorry but also glad to hear you've been signed off work again. Are you feeling better at all? I think it's very difficult to 'let go' of standards we've set for ourselves our whole lives, and of course before we had kids we had much more jurisdiction over our ability to deliver on certain things. There is a loss of control and I think it can be unnerving for people who are very organised in the first place. Sadly I don't think I've ever been described thus

PS: I've just started saying "yes, actually it IS sometimes" when people ask me if it's hard work having twins whereas before I would always be a bit defensive and sing the praises of having them. Had a lovely moment yesterday though when I was pushing our buggy along and saw a mum with a twin buggy obviously containing newborns (she was holding one of them while granny pushed) and we looked at each other and smiled knowingly. I love that unspoken bond between twin mums, that kind of 'yes, I KNOW, it's hard isn't it, but it's also bloody brilliant and aren't we lucky?' :)

ALL - agree you do sound relaxed about it all. Pass some my way please! Camping trip sounds wonderful.

LVB - yy to Army Museum although am busy weekend of 8th/9th. For once! Weekend after works though?

Mucky I think we might be going to Peppa Pig world that weekend it is my niece's birthday!
Weekend after I can do Cerub fancy coming?

I'm glad I didn't overstep the mark with my cod analysis, LVB and mucky. I was sure this morning that I had!

I think we'd be on for the army museum, would first have to persuade DH that there was wisdom in meeting people I only know from MN and FB (he is purely a user of t'internet to Obtain Facts, not to socialise! Seeing as our weekends seem to merge into one another otherwise, I'd hope he can be persuaded that this might be a nice thing to do). Which weekend are we up to now - 22nd Sept? I see from their website that we are best off booking tickets and can do this a week or so in advance.

Have been doing a bit of cod analysis on myself this afternoon and found this site which is quite fun - if you answer four questions it comes up with a Myers-Briggs personality type for you. If you ever wondered what I'm like, ISTJ describes me to the last comma (the last sentence in the paragraph above demonstrates this well!). Maybe it isn't so surprising that I get so thrown by disruption to childcare arrangements. I think your comment about losing control and organised people is very perceptive, mucky... I'm feeling a bit better, thanks, but do want to try and get to grips with things and work out some coping strategies while I'm off, or this will recur as soon as the next dose of illness pops up.

Just had a call from my Dad to say that my Mum is feeling quite ill with bad stomach pains. He's really worried (my Dad is out of his depth when required to deal with health matters) so I may need to go up and see them tomorrow.

ALL you may have just broken my heart with that story about DS1. Or rather, your DH has! Poor sausage, I hope he can forget all about it soon. Thought about giving him another inanimate object to get excessively attached to yet?

Oh, and I have got them a play tunnel so will hope for great things from it. So far both have rejected the offer of actually crawling into it, even though I have done so myself more than once I love the mental image of your girls in their wacky eyewear mucky. Marvellous!

Gosh I have missed so much. I have missed you all over the summer and although have been reading intermittently, it's not at all the same as posting and being involved.
I see there are meet ups happening! Lovely

Once again I'm checking in at a time when I can't really post properly (halfway down the m6 to be precise) but as a quick update we had a fab holiday in France with my mum, sister and her family. Drive was fine, I handed out snacks every hour on the hour in the car and kept a supply of little books and toys for emergencies. Audio books were a big hit. The drive down was insane, we were caught up in dreadful traffic due to travelling on worst day of the year in France - idiots - but the girls really were great. DH and I not so much - compulsory tearful screaming match after 12hrs confined in car together, anyone?

Wedding/hen do merry go round at the moment. Back to work next week

lavita I am so impressed that you have launched the S&D thing and with I was nearer so we could do a party. Agree you look HOT in your pic.

cerub you always have such words of wisdom for us all. I hope this next little spell of time off work does the trick for you.

Absolutely agree that ALL is the most chilled out of us all and hats off to you camping. I'm fairly sure I will never camp again but DH is keen to take the girls next year sometime...

mucky so eloquent as always... I identify with so much of what you say about your DH. The socks thing had me in stitches as mine does exactly that, really exactly the same as I race round him tutting and sighing trying to dress myself and the girls, get nursery bags ready etc etc. He is unbearable in many ways. But he got me a nice birthday present

Big wave to kate - how are your girls?

Waves to Tarti how far away are you?
Do you have a spare room? We can all come to yours sans children for the weekend! Party on one night, civilised dinner paint the town red the next night who's in?

Yes I was really surprised at how good the girls were in the car, although they were entrapped in the 3.5 hours of Mickey Mouse Clubhouse that I'd downloaded on the IPad, balanced carefully between the 2 front seats
DP and I mostly fine but traffic is the worst, once it took us nearly 9 hours back from Cornwall

I've asked DP for a car for Xmas so he'll definitely be in my good books if that happens!

Kate where are you? Hope all is well x

I'm EMPT very interesting and totally spot on!

X-posted with about 5 of you there... Right have done the personality quiz, I am INFP although as we have just arrived at the inlaws' I shall have to read the explanation surreptitiously in between nodding and smiling...
Lavita I am in Newcastle and have no spare room until we move... But I do love the weekend idea. Now if only mucky had bought that huge country pile

I read yours ALL and instantly realised why you're drawn to that sewing machine! You like machinery, like to just get on and try things, show your love for people by making them something...it all sounds like you from what you've said!

And you fit the entrepreneur type LVB (are you a hypochondriac too like they say?) whereas tarti is second most likely to report marital discord...let's ask her again after the in laws!

So that leaves mucky and Kate. Let's hear it ladies. I have an idea where I see mucky based on our hour long in depth chat...

Oooh Cerub it had me down as an ESFP, although when I read the blurb at the end I'm not sure I'm the "vivacious entertainer" they describe Blubbing wreck every time I find a mouldy banana at the bottom of the nappy bag more like...

Damn damn, I can't do weekend of 22nd because we are going on holiday that day! Grrr! I might be able to do the morning of the 9th although we are driving to Brighton that afternoon so it might be a bit much to squeeze two things in on one day. Am I giving too much away about how crap we are at organising things? Some of my friends are out with their kids all the time, morning and afternoon.... it would drive me berserk, but then I'm lucky not to (yet) have two children who NEED to be outside otherwise they climb the walls.

So looking forward to our hols. Hoping it's going to be a winner in terms of 'family holiday' options, but of course you never really know until you get there. Girls have own seats on flight? Check. Hotel close to airport? Check. Hotel right on beach and with decent pool? Check. Hotel serves wine and/or gin at all times of day? Check. We are there for two weeks and I can't wait.

In the meantime (tarti good to hear from you btw but you might be interested in this) I have embarked on something called the Whole30 which is quite an extreme 30 day Paleo detox. I really think you'd like it. It is reinstating a love of 'real food' - no more diet cokes, no more eschewing vegetables or fruit because they might be too carby, but no sugar, no dairy, no grains, no alcohol , no weighing for a month ... you get the picture

Oh but but but... we could do a night away somewhere? Is that mad? I currently have about six half-baked plans to have a night away somewhere with different friends, that desperate am I do have a break from the tedium

YES. Let's do it.

Like the sound of the paleo thing, is there a book I need to buy?? Have gained 6lb having lapsed over the summer which has tipped me back into podgy territory.

Ok am now going to read about all your personalities.........

LVB The Visionary
Mucky The Perfomer
Tarti The Healer
Cerub The Mastermind
ALL The Artisan

I've just done DP and he is INTP - The architect absolutely spot on!

I've just a quick google and half way between London and Newcastle is Nottingham, what's the plan ladies ?

Ooh glamourous Nottingham...
Since I am out on a limb location wise am more than happy to do lion's share of the traveling...
What do others think, are we all up for it?

Right have read them all and I am some kind of ENFP/ENFJ/INFP hybrid. Am
I the only person in the world who doesn't fit one of these types?!

Over to "The Mastermind" Cerub for ideas.....

Why do I suddenly feel like we're a bunch of characters from The A Team?

Cambridge?
Gloucestershire?
Babington House?

Yes, yes and yes!

Ok am blatantly enfj, The Teacher. Might as well accept my tedious predictable fate.

I have been nice to the inlaws for over an hour. Job done, off to bed (to browse Internet...)
Am going over to my sister's tomorrow for the night, then hen do on sat (Chester races which I'm sure will be an immensely classy affair... Hmm) so two child free nights- result!
And have another one next weekend which I fear DH has forgotten about, as I'm going back home to Sheffield for some quality time with an old friend. We're going to have our colours done Am really excited about it! More