Life with twins 3

[GibberingGinger]

Like some sort of film sequel, or a royal dynasty, welcome to Life with twins III, a thread for general discussions and sharing experiences of having (or expecting) twins.

Hey, Polka - my DD is still more or less sleeping through so hang in there, we never believed it would happen, and it did. I can't count the nights I sat crying in the early hours because we were up so many times.

Like you, we don't like to leave them to cry, so we always get up to her. But we don't lift her out (unless hysterically upset, which is rare). We give her a dummy and handhold / back rub / something like that to soothe her and let her know we're there. Sometimes it took 5 mins, sometimes an hour and a half. Horrible, but that's what it took. We couldn't leave till she was asleep, or she'd just start wailing again.

One of the big changes in her now is that as well as waking up way less, she can self-settle, and we can leave her half-asleep and she'll be fine - bliss.

Personally, I think you've got to knock the night feed (4am I mean) on the head - they will eat more in the day to make up for it, I promise, it won't do them any harm. If they're getting enough milk and food during the day and they're a good size, they shouldn't need it. You might be surprised how well they cope if settled with a dummy instead*, and they'll then take more in the day to compensate, and so need less at night etc. We kept DD on a 10.30 dream feed till she was about the age of yours because she's little but we had dropped the wee small hours one a while before that.

I know this is pathetically obvious (although it wasn't to us!), but is it completely dark in there? Turns out my DD is kept awake by the slightest bit of light, switching off the tiny nightlight was like a miracle cure. She's like her Mummy, I need total dark as well - I sleep with an eye mask on, which DH still finds hilarious after all these years.

If I think of anything else helpful, I'll post again - I remember reading that you've basically not got to give them anything to wake up for, if that makes sense. So no food or cuddles, just boring reassurance.

• I know I sound like an advert for dummies, I hated the idea of them but used in a limited way they've been a godsend with DD

sounds like good advice, I'm perfectly happy with my boys in my bed furiously taking down notes of course

Ordered the Lindem Playpen, if i don't miss the delivery it will be here tomorrow, along with a couple new beakers.

Wow just saw the forecast for the week - minus 7 in some places! Ouch
Wrap up those twinnies

Completely agree with above post

I found routine the key.

And also follow the " eat, play, sleep" method in the day.

Keep feeds same time every day bath time same time and bed time same time.

I also agree that the night time feeds should be dropped but this isnt just gonna happen as it proberly has become a habit for the little ones.
How are there eating in the day? Maybe try something carby in evening and maybe some snack before bed time. This way you will know there not hungry?!

I don't like the cry it out method either, but I used to leave them then go in put dummy back in and leave over and over and every night it got so much easier intact I think by night 3 we had cracked it.

These are the things that worked for me .. Hope they can help you too.

Mum - I love having the girls in with me too :) poor dh is nearly falling out of bed ha ha.
I love the newborn smell and just snuggle up to themand listen to there little noises they make, and as they are my last I may have to keep them in with me a little longer :)

Thank you for the advice and support, you are all stars- I am feeling more positive I can get through this!

Fox I will definately try to keep them in their cots and comfort- I have always given in with this far to quickly but if you managed to stick with this it gives me some hope It used to be a case of just giving DS his dummy when upset but had got into ther habit of needing to pick him up to calm down- yet, last night he had somehow reverted back to calming down in his cot with his dummy again (only out of cot when feeding) DD was in our bed again which I think helps DS as he sleeps much better when she is settled. I had also reda about making sure they don't have anything to wake up for in the night- I am guilty of giving kisses and cuddles in the night when calming them down, we do need to be firmer with this

katy I understand what you say about learning from mistakes- if we were ever to have any more I already know what we would have to do differently. I am so impressed with how your 4 week old twins are in such a good routine, it's fantastic. I have started trying to give extra solids as a late supper but they are both off their food a little at the moment which doesn't help, hoping will pick up again (both abit poorly). Going to set a strict bedtime routine again- I had lost heart with this and found it impacted on things we needed to do but going to establish this again- e.g bed every night before bed, massage and book (I had got into the habit of bathing in the morning or in the day)

Mum how old are yours now? Off to google Lindem playpen Do let me know how you get on with it!

Hi Polka. May I chip in with a couple of thoughts as well? It sounds to me as though currently you take each waking incident separately and do whatever you can to make it stop, rather than addressing their general behaviour and tackling it as sleep training. It's like the expression 'give a man a fish' IYKWIM!

What I would suggest is taking a block of a few days in which you accept that you are going to have a torrid time while you get new, good habits established. It will probably mean lots of crying and very little sleep for you, but hopefully will crack it in a few nights and then going forward transform things. So perhaps your DH should take a couple of days off work so it doesn't matter too much for him.

Then I believe you need to make sure you and DH are absolutely consistent in your approach, and that may mean you don't want to do controlled crying etc but you should agree how you will tackle it and then make it a project (Operation Sleep Through!) that you have figured out in advance what you will do in response to each incident, and then not deviate when the going gets tricky.

Also I would try to give yourselves a slightly less guilty time by not seeing them as hysterical, upset, in pain etc which are all very emotive thoughts - instead see them as needing your help to learn how to sleep well. What you are trying to do is teach them a life skill, not deprive them or be cruel. And to learn a skill a child needs to understand that x always leads to y. If x sometimes leads to y and sometimes to z then they get confused.

Hope this doesn't sound like I'm a know-all - we have some issues with DS at the moment waking around 4am every day for 60-90 mins which is pretty hard going. But we are sticking to the plan of not getting him up and trying to get him to settle again, because at the age of 11 months I don't want to start undoing the good work!

I really believe consistency is the key in everything for getting a child to be calm and secure. Definitely get the bedtime routine on track with the same things in the same order, at more or less the same time, and this will help.

Good luck and just focus on the sense of achievement when you've cracked it!

POLKA Totally agree with cerub on here. You will need to be consistent in your approach. And once you ahve made your mind up what way to address it do not deviate. I know it might sound a bit harsh, we did controlled crying with our two.... By CC i mean leaving them 10 mins and then going in checking them, not picking them up again 10 mins.... never longer than as I cant stand to hear them cry. We decided to do it at around the 5 month mark as I was loosing my mind with no sleep, DH couldnt function in work, I couldnt manage the boys at home the following day, our relationship was suffering , ..etc etc..its not for everyone, that is why once you Have decided what approach you are going to us u need to stick with it.

I had read that leaving a baby cry could harm it psychollogically( and some still agree with this) but I read a book by a child psychologist who is also a sleep expert and she came up with two scenarios about getting your child to sleep one is to stay in the room when they are crying so that they know ua re there, but you have to be determined to not keep getting them out the cot and the other is to do CC. Se she says you can choose how long you want to leave them for if this is an option for you and by that she means 2 minutes or something....

Anyway I cant believe I am on here now giving advice on what I did to get mine sleeping I spent the first 5 months looking at other women feeling jealous that they were having full nights sleep !!! there are so so many different opinions.... I just wish you luck and all I can say is it will get better...xxx [smile}

cerubina how are you??

xkatyx these are my last too, so I'm taking it all in my stride!
(they'll get away with blue murder but I must keep treatment of my DCs consistent because I definitely don't want favouritism)!

Polka they're almost 11months but they shuffle and can crawl/shuffle backwards so I do the washing up and come back to find them in completely different places! hot the Playpen (no beakers though ) and hopefully DH will put it up on weekend.

Cerubina that sounds like great advice. Once I start dropping breastfeeds around 12+ months I'll start implementing a new sleep routine I think. They have to learn to sleep alone eventually!!

I'm off to the weigh in clinic today, haven't been for 5weeks I'm hoping they've put on lots of weight but we'll see...

Hope everyone is ok and not freezing to death!

RE sleeping and consistency... one of the tricky things in our house was getting DH to understand that it wasn't ultimately good for DD to sometimes pick her up and cuddle her back to sleep! Training him was as hard as training the little one...

Cerub thank you, you speak alot of sense. You've hit the nail on the head with regards to just getting through the night as opposed to tackling the long term issue. I am going to print out your post so I can reassure myself that I can tackle this properly (you think I'm joking ) I find it very difficult as I do tend to think they are upset/lonely/scared when they cry in their cots... I suspect I have been slightly post-natal, and have struggled a little with feeling guilty and 'spread thinly'- I have maybe tried to compensate for having one with bad colic who took up more of my time. This isn't an issue now, and they genuinely seem to love being with each other when they're not stealing the other's toys and pulling hair.

Hippy I too have read about the psychological effects of CC- there is some fairly emotive opinions on the matter! We are getting pretty desperate now- I think it's slightly affecting my husband's work and our relationship in the short term actually- it's all too easy to snap and argue when you're surviving on little sleep!

Fox I am going to read all of these posts to my husband when he gets home from work- he is eager to try and get this sorted but needs to know we need to stop giving in

Mum at backwards crawling, very cute!!

Polka I nearly lost one twin under the bed today! He started trying to crawl then obviously crawled backward...I looked up - saw his brother and the a tiny head poking out from under the bed (he was actually finding it quite amusing!) cheeky wee thing!

Loving this stage though x

Hey polka any developments? Is your DH on board with the idea of getting this cracked? I totally get what you mean about finding it hard not to think they are upset when they cry - it is not easy to listen to and you feel that perhaps you are contributing to it, or even that you could make it stop but are refusing to! But remember that crying is communication for them and not always pain/upset like for older children or adults.

I read some awful article once about how CC was equivalent to a grown up being bedbound and ignored by her loved ones who only cared about her during the daytime...which deliberately seems to misrepresent how you do it. As I understand it, CC is a technique that allows a child to explore being left to settle himself, but at frequent intervals he gets reassurance that it's all OK, he's not been left alone etc. If it works then it is not something you have to keep doing again because the child has learned the skill of being able to switch off and sleep, so there should be no more tears at bedtime (maybe!). And you are hardly being unloving if you soothe your child regularly. The big gift is you teach them how to get a good night's sleep.

If it still sounds too harsh then there is a technique that others on here advocate called spaced soothing - try searching MN for it, it is probably lower down on this thread somewhere. I believe the woman who came up with it (Jo Tantum) does telephone consultations and home visits if you have the cash!

Tell you what though, I'm quite sure you don't want to get to toddlerhood without cracking it - this is the age to do it. I can only imagine that training a child with a strong will and the ability to shout NO at ear splitting volume is dreadful.

hippy good to see you back on here. You have been busy! Can't believe you had time to get married and move house in the same year you had twins! I take my hat off to you, I have not had time to descale the shower. Our two are just over 11 months now and doing really well, apart from the almost literally incessant colds and bugs. It has been a slog getting through since September but I hope if nothing else that this cold weather kills a few germs off. (It's freezing in our house as we had a few tiles in bathroom and kitchen relaid today and have to leave the underfloor heating off while they set. The man said leave it off for 4-6 WEEKS! I am sitting here with a hot water bottle on my lap and a draught blowing round my ankles.). How are your two doing? Are they standing/crawling/walking?!

mumofone my boy is crawling backwards too! He managed to get halfway across the room earlier and looked quite pleased about it. I have to remember to take notice of the many moments when they make my heart melt (cuddles, laughs, looks of pride when they manage to do something, little squawks when I get them up from their naps etc) and not just dwell on how hard it is when they're ill!

Are anyone else's hands chapped and cracked in this weather? Mine are awful, it's the continual hand washing with the nappy changes, food prep etc and hand cream doesn't get a chance to stay on for long enough to make a difference. I swear my nails and hands generally have never been so bad as since having children. I am hoping going back to work will give them a chance to recover - non-manual work for a change!

Cerubina you have to enjoy these moments - forget the hard bits! The first year or two is very hard but it's so filled with milestones and new discoveries that I find it the best! The boys are really starting to take more notice of eachother now, I caught baby G climbing on the back of his brother yesterday and baby A smacks his brothers bum if he starts trying to crawl forward!
Has anyone gone to any baby groups or even twin clubs? Part of me wants to but I'm so busy with DD and the school run not sure I'll bother yet.

How is everyone else? It's so cold we've already had a few drops of snow!

cerub yep they are both crawling, but just Finn is standing and infact I turned round yesterday and he had pulled himself up on his walker and was walking across our living room!!!! ..its all going far too quickly for my liking !!

Have to ask this, My one little mna has taken to making this god awful scream..hes not crying he is actually shouting/ screaming.... and hes doing it alot... hes not hungry, or wet or sick etc etc...what do I do do I ignore it?? If I go to him everytime he does it will this just reinforce it..its really loud and he does it ALOT. Anyone elses doing/ have done this...??? Is it normal..?? He sbeen doing it about a week now.... also a weird grunting sound. !! (sounds like a small animal!!) .....

Hippy is he doing it to be picked up/given attention? Baby A copies screams but it's still in a 'cute' (aw look he's copying us) playing stage!
If it is just for attention then I'd ignore it as best you can!

Got some tommee tippee beakers, I think they're the best so far, boys seem to have drunk something out of them, let's see if this is the start to weaning off the breast?! can't believe I'm at this stage already!

Baby G rambles on quite a bit yet I'm sure he'll be talking before his brother or before he walks!

Anyone else's reached any new goals?

Hi all!

My DH has a couple of days off in a couple of weeks so we are going to really try and get this sleep problem sorted then [scared!!] We had both of them in the bed last night for a couple of hours, then managed to put DS back into his cot as we were really aching from the lack of room! I've decided we need a super king size bed or something, just in case

I am enjoying this age- I love how they play together and are proving to be real company for each other. They sat for ages yesterday just laughing at each other and grabbing each others shoulders to put their heads together. Anything that gives me more time to mumsnet do the housework or eat a sandwich in peace is a bonus! They make me laugh so much, which helps me get through the nights.

Hippy my friend's little boy used to do a sort of grunting sound... she put it down to him testing out his vocal cords and finding his voice?

Does anyone have, or had, a Jumperoo or similar bouncer? If so, what age did you stop using them?

Hello ladies, how are we coping with the snow? My pram really needed pushing through some of it but got DD to school on time!
Hope the snow has melted some more for the pick up...what a work out I got coming back home!

Anyone with older twins.....please help.... x Finn is standing in his cot, and cant get himself back down into a lying position... the last fwe mornings he has woken at 4.30.... at first hes fine, and just making cute sounds but then he obviously realises he is stuck and starts screaming... which in turn is waking eli up....

What do I do...I obviously cant leave him as he needs help,....But how can I teach him to lie back down...or is this something that will come along later...?

Any tips.... I have just put them down for their afternoon nap and have had to go up...5 times!!!! to lie him back down...he is so tired as well.! rubbing his eyes and really grizzly... also eli has taken to kneeling in his cot looking directly at finn chatting away back to him....(which is very cute at 3 in the afternoon but not 4.30 in the morning!)....so what do I do...is there anything I can do...?? or just ride it out....??
Thanks...x

Oh hippy poor you! My boys love standing up and get upset when they're legs start to wobble and they want to sit (or they dont want to sit but their legs are too tired!?)
I usually let them fall onto their bottoms because they'll learn that it's ok and from sitting I assume they will lay down?
Maybe I'm wrong - my boys are still in my bed so don't have this trouble...
What do you do during the day when they stand and get tired? Do you pick them up/sit them down?

So have my date to return to work. 20th of this month ...Where the hell has the last 12 months gone !!?? I am dreading/ looking forward to it in equal measure is this wrong...??

So have my date to return to work. 20th of this month ...Where the hell has the last 12 months gone !!?? I am dreading/ looking forward to it in equal measure is this wrong...??

No perfectly natural! Hope you have a good/smooth return

Can't believe my boys are 11months! I swear 11moths could not have past since I had them!!

lol...I am the same they will e 10 months and 3 weeks when I return...am still in shock ! x

Hello ladies

I have just spent ages catching up and for the life of me I can't remember what was said - very sorry! I will try and keep up!

Time is flying by here too - the girls will be 5 months old in 9 days . On the one hand I'm sad but I love the 10/11 month stage so can't wait for that! I've already gone back to work (started this week but luckily from home) but plan to resign within the next couple of months and take some time off before looking again but it gives us time to save a few months salary before hand.

We are finally (I hope) coming to the end if the sickness bugs it's been awful with ds and Edie (t1) in hospital with bronchitis at various stages but hoping we are getting there!

How is everyone?

Mum bet you're glad it's half term! Hippy at going back to work, understand where you're coming from with the excitement sad too, it's nice to get out of mummy mode some times x

Excitement and sad too!