Are mixed race people black??

[franch]

Great article in Feb Good Housekeeping celebrating 20 "black and Asian" women who are "changing the face of Britain". However, included in the list are at least 2 mixed-race women: Kelly Holmes and Zadie Smith. I'm not arguing with these women's achievements, but surely it would've been simple enough to call it a list of "black, Asian and mixed-race" women??? Would these 2 have been included in a list of white women, as they are both 50% white?

As the white mother of a mixed-race woman (albeit only 1 year old!), it makes me feel irrelevant. And I also feel DD is missing out on having inspirational role-models identified for her.

Help me write a letter to GH about this. What points should I cover? Also, for reference, here is the rest of the list - I may have missed some others who are also mixed race:

Meera Syal
Baroness Valerie Amos
Kelly Holmes
Parween Warsi
Baroness Patricia Scotland
Gurinder Chadha
Yasin Alibhai-Brown
Doreen Lawrence
Zeinab Badawi
Shami Chakrabarti
Vanessa Mae
Trisha Goddard
Pinky Lilani
Denise Lewis
Serena Rees
Tessa Sanderson
Reeta Chakrabarti
Zaiba Malik
Zadie Smith
Baroness Flather

Ones to watch:
Parminder Nagra
Jamelia
Ruzwana Bashir
Mishal Husain
Nina Wadia

I didn't give Angela Griffin and a puppeteer as substitute for Kelly Holmes and Zadie Smith, you misunderstood me. I have suggested the program because my own children enjoy watching it, they don't forcely take it as a role model but they just enjoy watching it.

All that I can say is that, at the end of the day we can't argue with this subject, mixed race people are free, according to their experience, to identify themselves as they want, we just have to respect their choice, all mixed races don't want to be identified as mixed race, they have their reason, some prefer to be identified as mixed race, they also have their reason. We are not well placed to tell them what is the best identification for them, we just have to respect their choice whatever their identification, this is all I have to say on this subject.

"all mixed races don't want to be identified as mixed race"

Sorry I wanted to say "Not all mixed race people want to be identified as mixed race...".

I believe this can also be applied when talking about role model. Before being role models, they are real people with their own experience too, their own life, they also have the right to choose. This is all I can say about this subject.

I think the central problem and this is why I started a group just for mixed race people is that they do not have shared history culture and traditions. It's all new ground and mixed race need to create a culture that is not taken from black culture or white culture but something that is all their own. It's not easy to find a new path but I think for mixed race to be taken seriously in the future there needs to be some kind of mixed race identity that is unique. I hope places like this where people can discuss their experiences will help with this. If you look at places like Brasil there is a massive intergrated mixed race population and the laws against racism are really strict.

Veering off the subect one of my sons sees himself as white, whilst another always befriends black kids and seems t relate more strongly with that side of the family.

I agree with morine people are people and have the right to choose.

Obama isn't a black man of mixed origin, he is a Mixed race man. Just because he has colour doesn't mean he is black surely that is the point of this thread.

He wasn't mixed because of slavery his dad was black and his mum happened to be white. There was a choice involved there, he was brought up by a white woman so he isn't black in the slightest. He didn't choose to be identified as black, America choose to identify him as black as they are completely different to us. My grandparent's were horrified by the reaction we got in Florida, me being mixed race and them being white. It sadden's me that it still happens and is starting to happen over here in the UK.

"he isn't black in the slightest?" What are you on about??

"he isn't black in the slightest" If you read Obama's autobiography you will realise that this statement could not be further from the truth if you tried. He absolutely does identify himself as a black man.

America is a very large country with a very varied population and cultures. There have been several blanket statements about how black or mixed race people are viewed "in America" which don't hold true everywhere. I grew up in Northern California and now live in Southern California, and in between lived for many years in Boston, New York and London with stints in Italy and France. Attitudes towards race and skin color vary greatly between all those places. They vary as much from Los Angeles to Boston as they do from Harlesden to Hartlepool or Paris to Biaritz.
Here in Los Angeles my white children are a minority (although I don't think they realize it). And in Los Angeles mixed race means mixed race....it's a term that is used to describe black/white, black/hispanic, black/japanese (3 of my dd's closest friends) etc. Dd herself uses intricate descriptions of shades of skin color to describe people (ie not all whites are the same and not all browns are the same)....maybe it's because I'm an architect and a white wall is not simply a white wall. I think that the mixing of races is so much the norm here in Los Angeles, that people rarely use it as a sole means of visually identifying (or prejudging) someone.

Jazzy10: "I find it interesting that Fanch [sic] has included FULL-BLACK individuals within her list. There seems to be some conspiracy here, please do accurate research in the future to prevent embarassment [sic]."

If you read my OP, Jazzy10, you will see that I name only two whom I know to be mixed race: Kelly Holmes and Zadie Smith. I then say, "Also, for reference, here is the rest of the list" (of black and Asian women). Please do accurate reading in the future to prevent embarrassment.

I do resent being classed as part of a "conspiracy", Jazzy10. And the idea that I had sex with my husband and gave birth to my daughters in order to "dilute the black race and prevent black unity" is pretty repugnant - and divisive.

And yes, it's precisely because the one-drop rule was applied by racist whites that I find it worrying in its current incarnation.

I'm proud that, although my OP was controversial, this thread has, up till now, been a pretty constructive and respectful one - though full of opposing viewpoints. It is a shame that you have waded in aggressively hurling accusations such as "you are a disgrace". Are you new to MN, by any chance?

haven't read the whole thread, but I'm mixed race and have (still do sometimes) experienced racism from both sides, kinda like I didn't belong anywhere. It's rubbish. White racists saw a black girl, black racists saw me as "not one of them", somehow impure. Dating my white husband didn't help.

Just wanted to say that I see your point, like white is the norm and anything else should have a label.

the problem is not how you as mixed raced people yourself its how others see you.

as you well know the likes of the bnp dont care if one of your parents is white

and when your going for a job you wont stand much more of a chance than i would as a balck woman

whatevr you call yourself you will be treated as a black person

Not necessarily, Maypole. And what about gobsmacked's post? That mirrors my experience.

A lot of us aren't treated as black people by black people, so being told we are simply 'black' can rankle a bit.

Not read the full article. My beautiful niece is mixed race, and I hope she can identify with both her black and white heritage.

I've always considered her mixed race rather than black (her dad is of Jamaican heritage and has some Irish ancestry, and my niece has blue eyes).

I've always consider Colin Powell, Halle Berry, and Barack Obama mixed race rather than black; even if they choose to call themselves black.

My grandmother, describes her great-grandaughter as coloured. It doesnt offend any of us (including my brother-in-law), and as she's 89 years old, we are not going to begin to explain to her what is pc.

Is Tessa Sanderson mixed race?

No.

Franch I agree with you - it seems racist to me to say that mixed race people can be black but they can't be white. Also, I have a serious difficulty with the whole concept of 'anyone who isn't white is black', partly I think because I lived in South Africa for a couple of years during apartheid and that is exactly how they divided people on the beaches and on trains 'whites' and 'non-whites'. I find it horribly divisive and offensive to say that this is the most important division between people.

I think terminology and what is judged offensive or not is just completely different in different countries, there is no agreement - personally I find the term African American a bit strange because I have met Americans who have no idea how to describe black British people and have in fact described them to me as 'African American'.

The dual heritage thing sounds a bit euphemistic to me - wouldn't that equally apply to someone who was white and half English/half French? Or to my niece who is white and half English/half American - how can she describe herself? What is she mixed in?

I am black myself. I would say that mix race (should we not be saying dual heritage) people are dual heritage not black.

If referred to as black, what about the contribution of the parent who is white?

It depend on what the parents of mix race children say to their children. Some parents may tell them that they are black whilst some parents may tell their children that they are mix race.

I am looking after two brothers who have a mix race father and a black mother. The mother has told her boys that they are black.

I feel whatever you may wish to be called it is important that you have an awareness of the race of BOTH parents.

black skin comes in so many shades, some people only see that the person is black regardless of the shade of the persons colour. What happens to someone who does not see that their skin is a lighter shade of black but not white?

My nephrew was brought up by his white mother and would fight when called names as he found this hard to deal with?

It is important that children are taught to love who they are. If mix race then both mum and dad's race is important.

I dont like/use the term 'dual heritage'

Many 'mixed race' people are a combination of more than 2 races/heritages so how does dual heritage fit for them? It doesnt.

"Are mixed race people black"

In the eyes of society yes they are.

It depends how that person has been raised to identify themselves [as pointed out by the previous poster]

I agree with what you are saying amberleaf.

Thank you MUM2BLESS

im now 51 years old and been referred to as half caste by both black and white in the past.I actually prefer to be known as this.Who suddenly decided,"oh no! we mustnt use that word,its offensive"?offensive to whom?i wasnt asked if i minded being called mixed race instead. Someone in society decided for me. At least with the word half caste,it meant half black,half white. Mixed race is a mix of any race not just a mix of colour.It offends me if im referred to as black,how can i be with a white mum?I also have 4 siblings the same as me and 3 half siblings who are white.My children are also white like their father.They refer to me as half caste.Mixed race,dual heritage,bi racial can be said to someone in a derogatory way if the speaker is racist.Just because someone calls me a half caste dosent mean they are racist,they are describing what i am. BRING BACK THE WORD half caste i say.

arronsmum why does being called black affend you?

I guess everyone is comfortable with differnt things.

I as a black person does not like the term coloured? I am not coloured. When you think about it I am browned skin not black. This could get really complicated.

I do not like the term half caste either do therefore I do not use that term.

Over the yeard society used terms for other races which was very offensive. We have moved on!!!!

We need to be positive about who we are regardless of what society may want to call us.

"BRING BACK THE WORD half caste i say."

No thanks.

'1-drop rule' appears to persist for biracial individuals: People consistently view biracials as members of their 'lower-status' parent group