Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Please or to access all these features

Multicultural families

Here's where to share your experience of raising a child or growing up in a multicultural family.

Are mixed race people black??

242 replies

franch · 19/01/2005 14:29

Great article in Feb Good Housekeeping celebrating 20 "black and Asian" women who are "changing the face of Britain". However, included in the list are at least 2 mixed-race women: Kelly Holmes and Zadie Smith. I'm not arguing with these women's achievements, but surely it would've been simple enough to call it a list of "black, Asian and mixed-race" women??? Would these 2 have been included in a list of white women, as they are both 50% white?

As the white mother of a mixed-race woman (albeit only 1 year old!), it makes me feel irrelevant. And I also feel DD is missing out on having inspirational role-models identified for her.

Help me write a letter to GH about this. What points should I cover? Also, for reference, here is the rest of the list - I may have missed some others who are also mixed race:

Meera Syal
Baroness Valerie Amos
Kelly Holmes
Parween Warsi
Baroness Patricia Scotland
Gurinder Chadha
Yasin Alibhai-Brown
Doreen Lawrence
Zeinab Badawi
Shami Chakrabarti
Vanessa Mae
Trisha Goddard
Pinky Lilani
Denise Lewis
Serena Rees
Tessa Sanderson
Reeta Chakrabarti
Zaiba Malik
Zadie Smith
Baroness Flather

Ones to watch:
Parminder Nagra
Jamelia
Ruzwana Bashir
Mishal Husain
Nina Wadia

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
pedilia · 26/02/2008 17:46

Blimey this thread started started in 2005
I was just going to say that this had been done many times before, then I realised I had already posted 3 years ago!!

MrsMattie · 26/02/2008 17:49

I agree that mixed race people should be able to define themselves however they see fit. I'm white, DH black and we hope to raise our little boy to have a sense of pride in his mixed heritage, in being British/a Londoner with Irish, Jamaican & Guyanese heritage. If he feels that he is 'black' I won't argue with him about it. If he is very definite about calling himself 'mixed race' - fine. I know plenty of mixed race people, and they have quite different ways of seeing themselves.

MUM2BLESS · 24/09/2008 21:11

when enquiring about fostering I was told that mix race children are seen as being black.

The correct term is now dual heritage.

After reading something once, I now think about children who have parents of two different races, what about about both races, not for example the black parent only. Thats interesting.

I am a black person who is confident of who I am. I also respect people of all races.

knockedgymnast · 24/09/2008 21:24

Mixed race people are seen as non white but are not seen as non black!! It's nonsense, of course but hey ho!

Ginni · 30/09/2008 22:11

abit off topic but Gwenick I chuckled when I read your comment about calling a spade a spade. My dp is black-british and gets really offended by that saying, he tells me a spade is a racially offensive term for a black man! I'd never heard of this before, i'm getting the impression that those who have heard that this is offensive are in the minority. I'm just waffling now, i'm tired. I'll go back to reading the rest of this thread - i'm due to give birth in Jan to my mixed race white-black daughter.

newbela · 14/10/2008 22:48

This is a really interesting discussion. I just googled 'Are mixed-race people black?'. and found this discusion. I did the google search after reading a derogatory comment about mixed relationships by a black female aquaintance on her facebook page that spurred me to explore what came up on't internet on this subject. I'm a white (but with a bloomin good mix of bloods in me) mother of a 'dual-heritage'/mixed race' child. She's 2 1/2 now, and i'm finding myself feeling more aware and sensitive to race. I notice the iffy looks i get from some black women, being a white mother of a 'black' child. And I don't like the response this evokes in me. I know I'm a bit hyper sensitive about making sure her hair is tidy and styled, and then notice black women with their children's hair messy. Silly isn't it, I know. But this ramble isn't about me really, but connected with me thinking about her, as she grows, but obviously that does connect to me.

I see her playing with her white and black dolls, and it's like she's making some sense of it all too in some subconscious way. There are issues culturally. And you can't refute historical truths about horrific abuses of power that have created the deep prejudices people have in our society...

oops just got pulled off after reading one of the comments on here that talked about Yasmin Alibhai-Brown's book, and have now spent lots of money of Amazon!...

I can't come to any conclusions, except that we've all got such enormous responsibilities as parents to keep conscious and raise ourselves, as we raise our children. Check this link for an interesting documentary on the issue of descrimination and prejudice. Food for thought. freedocumentaries.net/media/175/A_Class_Divided/

LadyG · 20/10/2008 21:58

My DS aged 3 says 'mummy is brown, daddy is white and I'm kind of a creamy colour' which I must have said to him at some stage. DD is more light brown although only 12 wks so bit early to tell. DS seems to be colour blind when playing with friends and his nursery is about 50/50 white British/South Asian. I probably haven't thought about the whole issue much at all except with a view to making him aware of his Indian cultural heritage (read him a Diwali story etc) I sort of assumed that as he looks 'white' and will be brought up in the UK by a white British father and 2nd generation British Asian mum his identity will be mainly British. Wonder if I am taking my responsibilities too lightly?
The Alibhai-Brown book sounds interesting. FWIW I think Barack Obama winning would be a marvellous thing but even if he doesn't he's a great role model for children of all mixed ethnicities as well as black children.

mummo · 04/11/2008 23:16

i am of indian origin and my husband white british.as most mixed race children do, my little girl too hit the jack pot when it came to looks.people do stare and comment on her looks.we are very average looking parents. hopefully her looks will not be a hinderance as she gets older!
i think we will leave it upto her to decide what "box to tick" on forms. both of us dont bother because its nobodys business anyway.she has a british passport and i think thats how she should identify her self. British and proud and a respect for both her heritages.

on a funnier note ,when her "colours"were been "mixed", they didnt get stirred well. she has a very white/pale face with dark lashes and huge eyes and reddish hair. from her neck below she looks like she has just come back from a good holiday in the sun!

chickenmama · 05/11/2008 09:44

ah mummo, it sounds like you're describing my dd! She has a lovely 'tan' all over but much fairer skin on her face, with reddish brown straight hair and big black/brown eyes. It surprises most people who find out her father is black Jamaican.

RubyRioja · 05/11/2008 09:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

moci · 12/12/2008 01:46

my ds calles herself "brown" neither white nor black! i think ds has it right,! but labels is a silly thing, people see colour rather then personality in this time! thats a pitty!

mumzy · 14/12/2008 09:49

My Australian colleagues use the term "of dual heritage" rather than "mixed race" which IMO is a much nicer. It also avoids the racist overtones of some of the old chestnuts:"half-caste", "coloured", "of colour" whilst recognising and celebrating equally the heritages of both parents.

Mulatto1 · 30/04/2009 09:58

This may come across as a rant and maybe so, I'm just going to touch on some of the things I have read on this page starting.....now...
Sorry but can I just say that as a mixed race female of 23 I really do feel that it's the rest of the world i.e. people of one nationality that have the problem not us and it really does get on my nerves. I read the column and I've some of the comments the reason why we tick or used to tick black is because it was the ONLY box to tick! That mentality does infact go as far back as slavery and quiet some time after, reason why I say this is, has everyone forgotten that back then and once you had black in you, you were NOT considered "Mixed Race?" you were "Black" or "Half Cast" which (I hope) we all know is a not a nice term. Back then even if you looked white once people knew you had black in you, you were automatically classed as scum (sorry for the strong term), and even though we've moved on from those days some things are still around today. It is only within the last few years I've been had the option of ticking mixed race as the box was never there in the first place! back then it was you were known as "Black" then when I was little we were suddenly called of "mixed parentage" then round about the time of the Spice Girls (please don't laugh it's true I'm mixed would know) we acquired the title "Mixed Race" (now it's starting to sound boring or something) now they want "Dual Parentage or Dual Heritage?!!!!" Excuse me but who thought this new fan-dangled one up? The proper term is Mixed, Mixed Race or Mulatto which means "One of Many" which when you think about it they all have the same meaning and all they?ve really done is made it more of a mouthful to say. As for the lady who said something like she feels insignificant not trying to be insensitive but come on! For the pure fact that your child is classed as mixed obviously means that you are NOT insignificant! I agree with the woman who said something like a mixed child should be exposed to both and then left to make their own decision 100% as I have come across other mixed people who have been brought up around mostly white family and yet still feel more at ease being around black people. and just to make you think my mother is from Guyana her mum Granny is part African, Amerindian (one the few original people left in South America) and French her appearance would dark skin with what is now described as coolie hair, and her dad my Granddad is part Portuguese, Hispanic and part African his appearance would be very similar but lighter my mum is Dark and my dad is White would you class me? Right now you may be thinking "I don?t know! Mixed raced who cares why is she going into it?" but that's just my point WHO CARES?! It does not matter and it's not important but if you MUST I would prefer it if I was referred Mixed or Mulatto as they seem to be the quickest and simplest way to say. I pretty much done but I hope that you see that it seems to be the people who are not mixed that who are of one nationality that have the problem and that this is not what I would class it as an issue infact far from and I?m sure that there are more important things that people should be spending their time on I hope this opened some eyes and I hope people can move on and find something better to do with their time (sorry if I?ve stepped on any one toes)

Starbear · 30/04/2009 22:03

I've got to go to bed but this I am very interested in this subject as I am just about to complete a questionnaire at work about being a Visibly Ethic Minority to help someone out with a degree paper.
I now look blankly at people and say where I was born and where my parents were born. They can then try and guess the colour of my parents. They can see me I don't feel I have to explain! I also tell them my dad was a stall holder and Mum a cook. To be fair to my boss, he asked if I would like to fill it out and said that my mix was totally irrelavant to the job I was doing and didn't mean to be rude in asking but, it was a favour for another colleague. I found his comment quite refreshing

Roann100 · 17/06/2009 15:09

Message deleted

TinyPawz · 21/08/2009 23:23

I'm a white mother of a 'black' daughter. I go insane waching people tripping over themselves trying to find the 'correct' term.

Although some woman in work calls her a 'darkie'. I could cheerfully beat her with a 2x4 everytime she says it

sasamaxx · 21/08/2009 23:34

I do understand ethnic identity issues a little as I am half of something and half something else. As a result, I've never fitted into either identity and often feel inferior to both. Both are white incidentally, so my wrestling isn't apparent on the outside. All I know is it is absolute rubbish to feel like you are only half of anything, and not fully accepted by either camp.

When will society stop pigeon-holing us - it really doesn't make us more or less important as human beings.

lowrib · 22/08/2009 01:45

In America mixed race people are seen as black, no matter whether they have one white parent, or 3 white grandparents, or 7 white great-grandparents even. It is an inherently racist stance in this day-and-age IMO, implying a view that the white bloodline has been 'contaminated'. (Mind you - America, racist?! That's not exactly news is it).

Here's a quote from an article on the subject.

"The nation's answer to the question 'Who is black?" has long been that a black is any person with any known African black ancestry. This definition reflects the long experience with slavery and later with Jim Crow segregation. In the South it became known as the "one-drop rule,'' meaning that a single drop of "black blood" makes a person a black. It is also known as the "one black ancestor rule," some courts have called it the "traceable amount rule," and anthropologists call it the "hypo-descent rule," meaning that racially mixed persons are assigned the status of the subordinate group. This definition emerged from the American South to become the nation's definition, generally accepted by whites and blacks. Blacks had no other choice. As we shall see, this American cultural definition of blacks is taken for granted as readily by judges, affirmative action officers, and black protesters as it is by Ku Klux Klansmen."

[ref this page]

Thankfully in the UK we don't take this approach.

Vanschtinkel · 10/10/2009 13:09

i've been reading the posts...and one thing really stuck out to me: why is it that it offends you if you(of dual-heritage) or your dual-heritage child is called "black" or "asian" or "latino" when they are also part "white"(this could mean british,irish,portuguese, and all mentioned above)??
would u still be as pissed off if you or your child was referred to as "white"?
This is what i believe:i think that most mixed-race people would rather be associated with the so-called "superior" portion of them, which in several of the cases above, happen to be white. And i say this,not because i think that there are superior or inferior races.no, not at all. I say this because no matter what we think, because of the history that we should all know of, Europeans or Caucasians or whatever have managed to maintain this "superior" label because they have oppressed all the other races in the past.
Think about it this way: if Africa,for example,were this amazing continent in which all forms of technologies and discoveries took place, and if all the important people we learn about like Einstein and Pythagoras and Shakespeare and Bill Gatesall originated from Africa...would you mind if some random person accidentally called you black or of African-descent??
Just let me know

NorkyButNice · 10/10/2009 13:27

I'm mixed race, half black African, half white British. To confuse matters I was adopted, but my adoptive parents have the same background as my birth parents, so I still had a mixed upbringing.

In theory anyway - actually we were brought up totally white - I have no cultural connection to Africa through either my adoptive Dad (Sudanese) or my natural father (Kenyan).

In short, I feel white. People refer to me as black in appearance, even though I do look typically mixed race.

DS is also mixed race as DH is white. However he came out the spitting image of DH so he'll be ticking the "White" box on all the forms. That does bother me as it seems to discount my input, but that's life. And genetics!

NorkyButNice · 10/10/2009 13:30

Doh! I've just seen how old this thread is!

franch · 11/10/2009 21:58

Hi Norky, yes it's old but it never dies!

OP posts:
pelenque · 28/11/2009 21:37

I found this thread very informative and would like to add the following:-

I could be wrong but I have often read in history books that mulatto comes from the word mule because (and in the language of the slavery period) in the early phase it was believe that if you were to breed black and white you would get offspring that cannot reproduce (as in crossing a horse and donkey to get a mule). While the term is still very widely used in South America I believe in reality it's more pejorative than positive.

I believe that people should be allowed to be exactly what they are or want to be. I agree that Kelly Holmes for example should not be listed as black as she is not - she is mixed. In addition she was mainly raised by her mum (white) and so exposed more to a white rather than black culture.

Why should we care about this stuff? Well perhaps we shouldn't but we live in the world that we have and not the one that we would like. In this world we have global media which currently says that we have to conform to certain aesthetic norms in order to be considered beautiful/attractive (whatever). This says that black women have to be light skinned and have long straight hair to be attractive ..and very few are or have. Having mixed race described as black confuses matter.

Lets take a little trip down tangent avenue to emphasise the situation/matters:
In Brazil blacks are at the bottom of the barrel - and to have black features is considered most unattractive. The only group considered lower are the indigenous Indians ? sometimes simply referred to as indigenous in the country. Recently money was set aside to develop indigenous (Indian) communities and overnight hundreds of new "indigenous" communities appeared. The Indians have been flattered that so many people all of a sudden want to be "indigenous"; the problem is that the scant resources that have been set aside are now being drawn down by other communities.

Coming back to our subject - I remember a time when no one wanted to be black. Then moves were made to provide resources and processes to help the black community come up to speed; now almost everyone who is not white seem to call themselves black.

Now everyone can say how egalitarian a society we live in because so many blacks can be seen on television and in public life when in fact most are not black at all but mixed (or other).

In addition the ones seen (on the box and in public life) tend to conform to the light skinned long (usually straight - achieved through extensions or chemicals) haired stereotype.

I recently took my youngest daughter (9) to a black hairdressers where she decided she wanted hair extensions. I was none too pleased with even the suggestion but the hairdresser tried to be convincing of how this was a good idea and quote "even white women are doing it".

I don't need my children to grow up radicals but I would like them to grow up with positive self images, and not feel ugly or inadequate because they have black features. I don't want them to have to make the compromise (or take broken self esteem remedies) to conform to norms to get the opportunities that hard work and merit alone should afford them.

So whether you are black, white, mixed or polka-dot should be totally irrelevant - but we live in the world we are in with the problems that we have. Our society have all sorts of problems - race and colour is only one. Fixing social problems start with debate - I believe this is why the state of being black, white or mixed and how the groups relate to each other is (currently) important. I think that to classify mixed race people as black hides (or at the very least confuses) a very serious problem.

rachyh85 · 29/11/2009 22:34

oh , on the tick-boxes on forms... why is it that its always:
a) white
b) black
c) asian
d) mixed-black
e) mixed asian

i havnt seen a mixed-white yet!!

as the white mother of a mixed white&black child, this IS a bugbear of mine too.

And when Barack Obama was elected, it was all about america's first black president.

i wonder if he would have been referred to as zimbabwee's first white president, had he been elected there?!?!

a topic close to my heart! xxx

Dominique07 · 29/11/2009 22:37

Maybe you can copy a link to this discussion and ask them to cover this topic! Mother of a mixed race DS and would be upset if DS denied his white heritage and called himself black. Its silly, because as ppl say its often white ppl themselves who assume mixed race ppl are black based on appearances.