Regarding pork/bacon/ham

[IsabellaMoltisantixx]

Basically my dp of 15 years is an English Athiest, I'm an Asian Muslim . We met in uni & would have to write a novel about what we've been through as an interracial couple in the worst circumstances
I was reluctant to ever post on here about this as I've had a lot of backlash from the community and still ongoing

I don't want to rant, my question is we have two dds, one 10 and the other 10 months (big age gap) now when ten year old was young we had split up (regarding interracial issues att) so when he took dd to his or his parents he said it was within his right to feed her whatever they are. This included non halal meat which I wasn't so strict about but also ham!!! I was furious as this is my belief and I wanted my children to have the same belief as me, it's also a big thing to eat pig in our religion.
He agreed he wouldn't give any type of pig meat but said he could t do non halal meat as that's what they bought and also they live in a little English village so not even a chance to get halal meat if they wanted without driving miles
I accepted this as I know if for example his mum had made a meal , they would offer dd whatever they were eating. They just avoided giving her ham sandwiches or any of the pork roasts they'd sometimes do.

Thankfully we got back together in that time so things were ok as I'm the cook and also if we went to the grandparents house, I could control what they gave her etc

Now ten years later, have another dd and dp is saying she can eat whatever they give her (they look after her two days a week while I'm working) I agreed to non halal meat again ONLy if it was necessary as they could give her egg or pasta which she loves

Now I found out they'd given her a ham sandwich last week 😢 I'm distraught I just don't know what to do??? I can't appear u grateful as they're giving us free childcare???
What should I do? I'm not sure whether to just stop her going all together as I felt they've broken my trust but I'm scared to kick off as they'd just say well we had nothing else in ?
What would everyone else do in this situation

Thanks

Is he respectful of your beliefs? He doesn't sound it and maybe you should speak to him about that.
My children are multi cultural and even though I'm not longer with the dad I still don't give them anything that isn't halal as that's how we've raised them together.
I think you're being very accommodating by allowing them to give them meat that isn't halal apart from pork bacon or ham and they should respect the fact that you've allowed them this as many Muslims wouldn't be happy with that at all.
In my opinion they should be respectful of your wishes. It would be one thing to say no meat whatsoever but you haven't said that.
I think you need to have a chat and discuss how upset you are over this.

@chickedychicked

Thanks for your response, wow have you been through all of this then? Also, did you split regarding multicultural issues?
I've never met anyone in the same situation as me so it's amazing to hear there are others.

Yes my original idea to them was to just feed her no meat, but they're big meat eaters so for example they'd always cook roasts. They basically had roast chicken or beef or made curries and stir fries. So dps Mum just always said well I gave her veg and potato but she was reaching out for the meat"
That did sound genuine as I know she loves her food and when I've cooked before she watches us eat and holds her hand out for the meat so I suppose it's difficult regarding the non halal meat by my instructions have always been just offer her veg and carbs and cheese. I don't know how this goes down though
Like the other week she'd made spag Bol with beef mince and then offered her spaghetti and bit of the sauce on the side. Now, realistically there's no way she could have avoided not giving her meat in that instance. (I was there at the time) also, I've done baby led weaning since dd was 6 months so she's usually grabbing what she fancies.

It is so hard and in ad you understand
It's a bit complicated with his parents as they lived out in Saudi Arabia for years (the dad had a job there) so they were forbidden alcohol and pork and I think now they're back in England (and when they used to come back for holidays) they'd go wild and buy loads in as it was their "treat" for being without it
I'm just worried as older dd now asks questions like "daddy eats ham so why can't I?" I think I'm struggling with that more as I don't know how to balance the two

I will be having a word with his Mum next weekend and just reiterating it about the ham , it's hard as I know she's doing me a big favour looking after baby dd whilst I'm at work. It's saved loads in childcare costs

@chickedychicked

Forgot to answer. He is respectful in the way I wanna bring them up Muslim but has his moments where he's like "I eat it so they can" he likes the idea of them learning Arabic and prayers, but it's all very hypocritical tbh,

I think a discussion needs to be had with regards to how you're going to bring them up and you both need to agree and stick to it.
My relationship didn't end due to multi cultural issues really, there was a lot going on and we too had met in uni but we just grew apart. There were issues with regards to differences in cultures and over bearing in-laws etc but that wasn't the reason.
We both agreed before having children about how we'd like to raise them and have stuck to it but I appreciate it doesn't always pan out that way.
I have a mother and father from different cultures myself so I think that helped me accept differences from the beginning. it can work out if you're both on the same page.
I think if you have a word with his parents calmly then they should respect what you say otherwise they may just feed her but hide it from you.
Honestly though it's not that difficult to not feed a child a certain thing, my sis in laws children are vegetarian and when they are over with me I just make sure I cook the veg separately and make an extra something. More often than not they'll just have a cheese sandwich.

I think your I laws and husband should totally respect your request

My partner is Asian Muslim I'm non Muslim, we have a daughter together who is 1. She has only ever had halal meat and she always will even if we separate I wouldn't disrespect his wishes and if I ever gave her pork I think he would kill me lol, I don't eat pork anyway I haven't done for years and I only really eat halal anyway because that's the only meat I will buy for home. I think you need to be more strict with it as they will grow up being confused as you have already stated. I understand it must be difficult when they go to your in laws house as you are not there all the time to observe what they are feeding them but I think you need to speak to them on a 1 to 1 to discuss it and try and give them a better understanding of you religion.

I would be interested to hear more about your story and multi cultural complications as we too have faced problems

Thanks all

It is quite complicated, his parents lived out in Saudi Arabia n they seemed quite anti Muslim, not racist but just loathe some regarding the rules. I think cos they were denied alcohol and pork out there they're kind of like we'll eat how we want out here'
Believe me, it has been a struggle. My dp does everything to impress his parents as forever grateful to them , so it's hard to talk to him. I know it's really bad I allowed the non halal meat but tbh I'm no saint. I can be guilty of this as well if I'm round there's n they're giving us dinner. I guess I just hate appearing ungrateful or a nuisance
Pork is the thing that gets me the most. I do need to reiterate it's something I really want them not to do

Yes our relationship was very difficult. I think it's easier for Asians/Muslim men marrying non-Muslims, all my uncles are married to English women, one even Chinese. I was one of the first to bring home a white guy to put it bluntly
I was shamed and my mum pressured him to covert to Islam which he would never do! As he said he'd rather be genuine then be fake, he basically doesn't believe in any religion and he used to always say would you rather I just converted for converted sake? To keep the community happy? He has a point, yeah we've had a horrible time
I was threatened by extended family when first born arrived with acid and all sorts, that's what put me off having another child hence the big age gap.

It's a very big struggle day in and day out. What difficulties did you face?

I'm so sorry you went through all of that, how awful. It's a very misogynistic culture, the religion itself holds women to the highest and yet most of the cultures that are Muslim don't.
Don't feel like you will be a nuisance to his family, if you don't want to eat meat that's not halal then don't, if you were vegetarian then would you eat meat just to not cause a problem?
But if you do want to eat it then that's no one else's business either, I certainly wouldn't judge you.
You do need to make it clear that you are raising your children according to your beliefs and that your DP agreed to it so you will be sticking to it.
My DC as a toddler would reach out to have a bit of the fizzy drinks that my mother or brother were having and they would let him have it, it drove me mad, in the end I told them to either stop or he wouldn't be left alone with them. I know it seems mean but you do have to set boundaries with children generally anyway and if I fell for my Dcs puppy dog eyes they'd be eating chocolate noon and night.

I didn't go through anything similar myself thankfully. It was more to do with general differences between how we'd been brought up. He too loved to impress his family and wouldn't dare speak up about anything or defend me , sorry to say that this was a big reason in our splitting up

can i ask if your family is ok with you now that you're married and have children?
My inlaws did change a bit once the DC arrived and were much more accepting because they love their GC.

This sounds awful OP. My heart broke a little reading this! I am indian (Sikh - but not vegetarian), i can understand how horrible this must be for you.
I find that many people dont understand how its not a lifestyle choice or a dietry requirement, but something that feels a million times deeper and important than that because it is deeply set within the religion your practise. Its not a joke or something to be taken lightly whatsoever.

I think you have made more than a fair compromise with allowing your children to have non halal as this in itself must have been a hard thing to have had to have agreed on.

Also, i feel that its such a cop out, surely they could have just used cheese? Or cucumber? Or jam? I just refuse to believe the only thing they had to put in the bread was ham! God, even butter alone would have sufficed! I dont want to say it sounds like they did it on purpose, but it almost does.

Maybe send some food with her when you send her to them? Extra ingredients maybe? That way if they will always have alternatives on hand.

You wont appear ungrateful, as a mother you have every right to set out her meals and just because they offer free childcare doesnt mean they can give her foods you wish her not to have.

I'm going to be more harsh than others. She is under the age of responsibility so if you've tried your best and she's still having non halal food then you can't help it and it is not a sin. My DDs couldn't tell what they should/ shouldn't be eating till they were about 4 so when at parties did up having ham once but it wasn't a big deal. There are so many rules and it seems you are fairly randomly picking and choosing which to follow (not married? Partner a non-Muslim), some muslims I know drink alcohol, others eat non- halal food and think it is sufficient to pray just before eating it. His parents probably see that your lax in some ways so don't understand why you are so hung up on meat and it sounds more like a cultural thing at this point to be honest. It won't harm her as it's not an allergy, I think you should concentrate on not straining your relationship and when she is old enough then you can explain to her so she can make the choice and refuse inappropriate food.

@BeeMyBaby
I'm confused by your post. Are you Muslim or taking from a non-Muslim perspective?

I think yanbu. You do have to give and take between 2 cultures. You have comprimised with the halal question so I dont think its UR to expect them to request the no ham rule. They might have made a mistake. They might not have had anything else in. Dd might have wanted what was on their plates. You are going to have to talk to them to resolve this. If it happens again then yes you will have to pay for childcare becsuse the bottom line is you cant trust them.

I'm non-Muslim but my children and husband are, and I've tried my best to support their religious beliefs, but if they ate Haribo or a pork gelatine filled marshmallow it is not an issue as they were too young to know better. My latter point was that you don't sound the most strict of followers so I am unsure why you would choose to be so hung up on this when it's basically not in your control.

I don't think it matters if OP is not strict in some ways but chooses to be strict in this matter. That's up to her nobody else, not one of us who do follow a religion can say that we do everything perfectly. There's things I'm stricter with and things im quite lax with that's up to me.

Regardless of whether OP should/shouldn't bla bla - it's her in laws blatantly disrespecting choices she's made for her DD and religious convictions

It's not hard to make a cheese sandwich and skip the ham.

I think really OP your DH needs to be having a conversation about you deserving their respect. They're making a much bigger statement towards you than food and it's not on. Free childcare doesn't give you the right to be deliberately unkind to a D in law, and being upset at this doesn't make you ungrateful for free childcare! But I would ask your DH to deal with it rather than risk a debate over it with them

They should 100% respect your wishes about your youngest.

It doesn't sound like your husband is really on board if he eats pork ham around your eldest. I guess you need to decide at what point you allow her to decide for herself what she eats.

@BeeMyBaby

Sorry but your post doesn't make sense. Just because I might seem 'liberal' to you doesn't make it any less important?
At the end of the day, that is my BELIEF. I'm not happy with eating pork and don't want my children to either. So are you saying a vegetarian or vegan shouldn't have their beliefs?? Putting religion aside, I've grown up with the belief not to eat pork and it's something I've stuck to
Even abandoning religious reasons. It I have friends such as Rastafarian who also don't eat any pork or meat from a pig because tons of research shows how bad it is for you. I was even sent a link on this from someone I went to uni with who wasn't even aware I was a Muslim
So it doesn't matter. The fact I don't eat pork and want my children not to is my BELIEF. My Athiest partner has beliefs that have nothing to do with him being Athiest it's his principal
And it's also a bit rich of you to say someone who's obviously not a practising Muslim. At the end of the day, if I didn t want to be Muslim I wouldn't. Simple as. Fact is I do and hold a lot of importance of my religion. No matter what.
If you're Muslim, you also believe that on Judgement day you're alone and accountable for all sins etc so in other words and without sounding cliche only God can judge me.

There's Muslim countries like Turkey for example where drinking alcohol is widely practised yet they pray 5 times a day and are proud to be Muslim and hold onto their beliefs dearly.

Is your partner a Muslim convert?
Because if you were so concerned about eating pork you wouldnt be with a non Muslim right?
Unless your not practicing at all then that’s different.

All I will say then is that perhaps you should have discussed and agreed upon these matters before having your DC, especially your second as you already knew the issues from the first. There is no point trying to enforce rules from your beliefs as an after thought. Atheism in itself is a belief system and to avoid a food type for what your partner and his parents believe is superstition may be difficult for them. Yes I am not Muslim but my DH was very clear prior to getting married what was expected of me and of what would be required if we had children, as was the Imam (and the pamphlets I was given). The reason you are having these issues is not necessarily because of the religion or there lack of the person that you chose to be with but that you failed to agree upon these basic things prior to having children, perhaps that's why your brothers had more success. I think you are causing you and your partner undue strain by overthinking something that you seem to have given no thought/ discussion about previously. On the other hand you also have to note that they have all at least been incredibly honest to you as they could easily just lie about her eating something else.

I'm sorry but your kids father has the same rights as you! If he believes in eating pork and he wants his children too then it's a lose lose situation to one of you. I understand why your upset but obviously some people (myself included) just don't follow such religion therefore can't fully understand and obligate to what you want

And before anyone blasts me about it being about pork or religion, I have the same view on vegetarians/vegans. Eating meat whether it be ham or something else, I wouldn't go out of my way to cater for someone unless it was some sort of allergy where I could put that person in danger. Belief is belief and allergy is a totally different kettle of fish (pardon the pun)

It's very difficult as he could argue you are imposing your views on the children and you could argue the other way. No one should trump the other.

Did you agree before you had children which religion you would raise them in?

My partner is Muslim and I'm Christian. I agreed to abide by the no pork rule with our children but wasn't happy about them eating halal meat. A few years ago he started eating pork himself so there was little point them not eating it too.

Quite a few Muslims we know keep a halal kitchen but are more relaxed when eating out, other people's homes etc. Would that be an option?

Can you just clarify is it the younger of the children who have had the ham sandwich or the older?

Are your children raised Muslim? Do you actually practice the faith together or is it just you? If you do then absolutely they're not just being disrespectful but are plainly in the wrong and it is no different to someone spiking a drink of a non-drinker etc. If they're not being raised practicing your faith then it feels (to me anyway) that you're being a little unreasonable.

Whatever the circumstances though it sounds like you need to have a tough conversation with your DH, and perhaps even with yourself. This may be a spiritual crossroads for you with regard to matters of faith. Maybe you'll decide to leave DH and start practicing your faith and having your children practice it too. Even then though I'm not sure how you stop him from going against your faith when he has them, at least not until it becomes their faith as well. Alternatively it maybe the time you decide that you can only change things for yourself and that everybody else must work out their own faith (or none).