Multifaith family - dealing with Muslim in-laws

[TakeitEasy23]

I've already decided that my kid will not be circumcised. My husband and his family are Muslim. I am not Muslim. I believe circumcision is child abuse and the only person that can make a decision about the chop is the baby himself. How did other families work through this?

My MIL always talks about Islam this and Islam that. She barely practices properly. She didn't have anything to do with us for ages because she was a drama queen and boycotted our wedding.
Husband was fine during this time. He was himself. Entertained guests with alcohol (i dont drink) and was cool with visibly non Islamic religious relics being in various rooms of the house. However, MIL came in picture when she realised I was having a son. We happened to move house and haven't unpacked nonIslamic religious items yet. All of a sudden DH doesn't want alcohol at an upcoming party and doesn't want religious items in living rooms. However, his mum is allowed to pray in living rooms. He denies that the above has anything to do with his mum but I've noticed her trying to control him, guilt trip him into doing things etc. I will go ahead and put up the non Islamic religious items up.

How do you people put your MIL in her place?

Well, I agree with you about circumcision and wouldn't be bullied into any such decision by extended family of any culture. What does your dh think about it?

I wouldn't be told I couldn't have certain ornaments in my home either (in my case they wouldn't be religious, but I don't think it should make any difference - it's your home, your dh needs to compromise)

I wouldn't have an issue with her praying wherever she wants - she would have to put up with my belongings while she did so though

You do sound a bit combative. Maybe start out with a more measured approach, in the hope that MIL will be more reasonable than you expect?

I suspect dh is the problem really...

It’s a bit ridiculous to thi think that male circumcision is child abuse. It’s an important cultural and religious paractice and it doesn’t do any harm. That would be a deal breaker for me, if my partner wouldn’t allow that. Also i am not sure why you get your religious items in the living room but your husbands family does not. Have you thought about being more accepting of his religion?

That being said, I’m probably not the best person to advise on MILs. Mine is super religious and really does as she chooses in relation to her gc, son, etc.

It would be a "dealbreaker" for me too. i couldn't coparent with someone who wanted completely unnecessary surgery performed on a baby. I wouldn't be able to trust them.

Where does OP say that she has objected to items relating to her dp's religion being on display? Pretty sure it's only the dp who has obected to her items, and only that since his mother has been imminently visiting.

This isn’t about Islam - strict Muslims don’t marry non-Muslims and have non-Muslim kids; and if your mil was a zealot she would never have accepted you or the child. This is more about a son trying to make his mum happy at all costs - I bet he’s told her you / your son will convert ‘eventually’.

This sounds like a cultural thing rather than a religious - Indian, Pakistani, and Middle Eastern kids are often taught to consider their parents first in all religions despite some (Islam) actively telling them not to.

I am a nice civilised educated person, but like many such people I choose to have my male children circumcised. Because then he is fully part of his family’s religion and culture. If you think your son will thank you for making him have to get circumcised as an adult so he can marry within his faith, I think you are far wrong.

I'm sure yours will thank you for having part of his sexual organ cut off.

Mine have already thanked me for not doing so!

Oh and if you split up the child goes with the father (In their believe anyway)

Like pp said, it's a possession

I thought circumcision was becoming illegal unless medically necessary?

@ruby - not always. Muslim Women nearly always get custody (via Sharia law) if they don’t remarry. Men also HAVE to pay maintenance for their children, up to and including breastfeeding payments in some sects.

OP - when you say "I've decided", I assume you meant "we've decided". if he's agreed it already it won't be an issue, surely. If you decided it unilaterally without discussion, then I think you're asking for trouble...

Rubymil - you thought wrongly - but you're not the first to think that MN=real world.

I'm Jewish and DH is Lutheran. With DS we were asked if we wanted him circumcised. We chose not to, not that it was ever any option on the table.

restinggrinchface Love your username and your post. I see the same with the culture of Judism vs the religion here in the US. Drives me nuts. Yes judism is a culture but some take it too far.

Want2be - the issue for Jews in US are 100% different from those of, eg, Bengalis in the UK. No idea what you think the similarity is.

And what does "too far" mean? Bringing up your children as Jewish, keeping kosher, keeping festivals?

sam There is no need for a boy to be circumcised. That's too much for me. DS is still Jewish regardless of being circumcised or not.

Muslim and three boys have been circumcised, however for a couple of years now have thought it as mutilation. Don't understand it's religious basis, have read up on it and still not bear logical. It's cruel and torturous.

Hate myself for having put them through it - it should be banned and not allowed unless medically prescribed

I mean I understand the religious reasons but still not valid or enough

Thank you everyone for your thoughts. Im new to this site so I dont know if im responding correctly.

Greensleeves thanks for the feedback. Husband is fine. He has dealt with an abusive upbringing. She is a narcissist. We have had serious problems pre-marriage and post-marriage with her. She has been very cruel. She threatens to kill, insults, degrades my background and she spent some years doing blackmagic to separate us but it rebounded. I dont believe in blackmagic but weird for people to dabble in it.

zazajuju Thank you for your input. My husband and I had already decided against circumcision. My point is that its child abuse because the child does not have a say in it. He is not a Muslim anyway (DS). There have been cases where circumcised adults have wanted to sue their parents for circumcising them.
My mother-in-law doesn't live with me. It's mine and my husband's house. Not hers. If my religious items cant exist in public yet a third person can practice Islam freely in the public parts of our house, there is a problem. I dont practice my religion in her house. It's not a matter of being accepting of Islam. I know I've been more than accepting.

restinggrinchface Thank you! Spot on! Loved your advice. I dont plan on letting DS interact with their side without me being there. Was it difficult marrying a non Muslim for you? Did you have family support?

RavingRoo What is apparent to me based on all interactions is that she hasn't accepted me. Otherwise she would have come to the wedding. Husband married me despite his family turning their back. She was hell bent on conversions and other crap. It was only when the male gender of the child was revealed that she wanted to interact and perhaps to ensure the child becomes Muslim. Its obvious what religion I follow. She probably hopes she can convert me. Husband cuts her off whenever she goes off on a religious tangent in conversation. I dont think he is trying to please her. I think it's more self-preservation. He finds it stressful to deal with her as she can be very volatile. So he has taught himself to give up or avoid problems with her as much as possible. However, it becomes an issue when it sacrifices the rights of others in the process.

Rubymil he he he no we won't be splitting up. :)

Samg76 we discussed it. He supports my decision, which is that we will not circumcise him and that our son can make his own decision about circumcision after the age of 18.

mumoffour1816154 thank you so much for sharing your personal experience. I agree that there is no real justification for this process. Desert land with sand and hot weather determined a lot of the clothing that was worn. Cotton loose clothes in Arabia and nude in many other parts. Intrusion of sand in genital areas can cause infections. Especially when water sources were limited. We know men travelled a lot for business and Islam started among businessmen. There are verses that mention how to do ritual purification (wudhu) when there is no water source. This tells me that water was limited and circumcision took place for hygiene. If you look at countries that have coastal areas, vast water access and lack of desert areas, they didn't circumcise. Australia has desert in the central region and other areas are normal. It's interesting to note that only Aboriginal people that lived in the desert region practiced circumcision. Of course in this modern age, unless you are living a bedouin lifestyle, it's probably not necessary to circumcise.
I agree. It should be banned and only used for medical purposes. Don't hate yourself. You have recognised that it's not a great practice and you are spreading the word. By spreading the word, you are giving other Muslim (and non-Muslim) mums the courage to stand up to this practice.

Rubymilhe he he no we won't be splitting up

Thank God for that. Just thinking because if you do his mother will do everything in her power to take your child from you.
Although if you are in the UK she doesn't have much chance of that happening.

Rubymilhe Yes. I agree. She won't be able to come between me and the baby. She will try to annoy me in other ways. Thanks to western countries and their laws though.

@TakeItEasy like I said, my family weren't backwards Muslims so they didn't give two figs about my husband's religion, they were more concerned about whether he was a good person. They were happy that I had married a man who fit in well with our child centric low key religious family culture. On the other hand if I had married one of those kinds of Muslims I mentioned previously I think that they would be heart broken but supportive none the less. My mother's parents (who I don't really consider family tbh) are little bit less, um civilised, and they were a bit upset but they still accepted it. In contrast I have seen Muslim families from the afore mentioned community react very badly when children marry/date outsiders. A couple have disowned children, one beat his daughter terribly and she ran away, others have tried to force them into marrying someone else. I'm just glad that my family is not like that thank god.

@RestingGrinchFace I'm hoping the next generation is more accommodating and open minded.

I Was brought up in very strict background, couldn't ask questions or have a different opinion. Wasn't allowed to go uni as I could become more modern or not marry arranged. Married from parents choice, as trusted parents as they know best. My husband traditional pakistani male, when he initially came from pakistan gas backward ideals, mum just said compromise, marriage is important 😡😡😡. But just how much should a woman compromise, and why it's a two way thing. I didn't try to change husband just did what I wanted. My husband is brilliant, he does the cooking, helps with chores and looks after children. The marriage is a partnership. I don't listen to parents, rarely visit. Teaching my children to be their own person. I don't enforce religion as it was on me. My third son is practising Muslim, oldest not as and daughter doesn't follow it at all.

If you think your son will thank you for making him have to get circumcised as an adult so he can marry within his faith, I think you are far wrong.

Er.... big assumption there, the baby isn't even born and you have assumed he will be a practicing Muslim.

Religions can 'claim' people but it doesn't make it right or true. I have an ex who is 'technically' both Jewish and Muslim.

@mumoffour, I was very lucky in that most of my grandparent's generation (both men and women) went to university and had careers so they were all much more exposed and more open to the world outside of their ethnic community. I have found that the least tolerant are those who don't mix much with outsiders, language barriers being a big reason why they don't. I think that young people from my ethnic group are quite like clay because it is a very small ethnic group and, unless you live in the homeland, it's impossible, as a child or young adult, not to mix with others. When you take some larger Muslim communities in Britain as a contrast it's quite clear why they have failed to liberalise. I'm really glad that it worked so well with your husband and children. You sound like a great mother!

@RestingGrinchFace thankyou (had to name change, 4 year old likes French toast which we call pancake bread!!).

I was encouraged by parents to learn to compromise, and conform. My husband realised that it would be best he compromises and we meet in middle. He is very supportive, not educated but supports education. I am currently second year of undergraduate degree (hence why up at 4am). My parents are a lot more liberal with their grandchildren and don't dictate traditional and cultural expectations, but do endorse religious practice. I explained to my children it is their choice. I do live in a very heavily populated Muslim pakistani community, but luckily most converted to education as essential and independent choice in marriage/relationships