Husband Sikh, me white and Jewish (not practising)

[MissM]

Hi. Is there anyone else out there in a mixed white/Asian marriage? I could really do with someone to ask lots of questions of! My husband is Sikh, and for a long time didn't tell his family about me. We got married last year and have a dd of 9 months, but relations with his family are strained. Not because they don't now accept me - they do and are welcoming and kind - but because I just don't know how I'm supposed to behave culturally, or what is expected of me as the wife of their only son. There is also a language barrier as they speak little English. DH is absolutely useless as he lived for a long time in denial of his culture and claims not to know how I should be or what I should do. I have thought of asking his sisters, but I feel too embarassed. I honestly have no idea how they see me or what they expect of me, and Im finding it quite stressful, expecially as DH won't talk about it. My family have always been completely accepting of him from day one by the way.

Hi MissM

Interesting - your family have accepted him as is and you feel that you need to behave in a certain way to gain acceptance from his family. Why? Perhaps he's not in denial but just not in tune with the cultural norms himself?

My parents are a mix of white and asian and I can honestly say that neither of them felt the need to conform.My uncle married a German lady and gets really wound up when she tries to tune into the culture - he married her for her and not to make her into an Indian wife.

You sound like a nice couple. Your DH family are welcoming and kind. Why not leave it that. I would guess it's the language issues that makes things a bit strained. If not I'm sure there are mumsnetters who can point in the right direction in relation to Sikh cultural do's and don'ts.

Thanks for your kind words bubblymummy. Perhpas it's me that feels I have to behave a certain way. I guess I just feel worried that they might be offended because we don't visit enough or whatever. I know his mum can't understand why we choose to live in a Victorian terrace in London instead of a modern house near them and drive a BMW! Sorry, that sounds very cliched but it really is true. I think you're right about him not being in touch with the cultural norms himself - he doesn't have any Asian friends, for example, and barely talks about his childhood. I think he identifies himself more as working class than as Asian to be honest. It would be nice to meet people in the same situation really, just so I can understand where he's coming from sometimes.

Hi MissM
I'm Asian, with a white husband. I'm guessing you want to make up for the lack of shared language by doing something your in-laws will understand, and I understand how sometimes, all a very traditional Asian family can understand is their own ways. I think it's generous of you to want to stretch across the gap between you to try and bridge it.

Your husband sounds interesting to me... I don't mix much with my own religious community (not a believer) but I do strongly identify myself as a Brit Asian. The family/cultural experience is so strong, I can't imagine how your husband can not relate to it.

I know with a 9 month old baby you have little time to call your own but could you try learning some of their language? Maybe relations are less strained than you think and they just feel a little ill at ease if you seem tense from trying hard to please them IYSWIM. I think if you come across as warm and welcoming and a loving mother/wife, you'll all get used to each other over time and start to feel more relaxed together.

I do know a few words in Punjabi which I try to use now and again. They always laugh when I do, but affectionately so maybe it's the right way to go. Your kind words really touched me tinkymummy, thank you. I can't understand either why my husband doesn't identify himself with the culture and/or religion. The only thing I can conclude is that he didn't have a very happy childhood, and wanted to escape his upbringing as much as he could. It's very hard to talk to him about it - he gets quite defensive. Did your family accept your husband tinkymummy? How have you dealt with cultural differences?

Hiya

My husband is Arabic and I'm English...we met at Uni and got married in secret without telling anyone. When he told his family they totally freaked out....he had to go over there alone and I wasn't allowed to come with him because of the shame it would have brought on the family etc etc...it nearly caused us to split up and for a period of time, I really hated them all, even though I'd never met them. My family were very accepting of him, which made things worse.

Things came to a crunch when DH wanted us to buy a house together and I said I want to meet at least your mum before we do anything like that cos this situation has to be resolved..his mum came over and we actually got on really really well, despite the language barrier. All the family know about me now and I went over there for my first visit when pregnant with DS, going for my second visit next week.

I read absolutely loads about his culture, lots of books about the politics, dos and donts and I really feel that made a big difference - it enabled me to understand DH and where he was coming from and allowed me to adapt a bit when with his family and behave in a way that they expected.

Its always hard when DH isn't very forthcoming....my DH was like that at times -they get frightened you will find some aspects of their culture strange so they don't bother telling you about it, but IMO, that makes things worse.

Why not try reading some books and then open up a conversation with him...i.e I didn't know it was custom to do that...I would also ask the sisters as well - I'm sure they would love to share their culture with you! I've got friends who are Sikh and they are so happy to share parts of their culture with me when I want to find out more!

Wishing you lots of luck and let us know how you get on.

Niks

"I know his mum can't understand why we choose to live in a Victorian terrace in London instead of a modern house near them and drive a BMW!" - I think thats more of a generation gap than a culture gap!

my family have accepted the cultural difference quite easily. I have many cousins, ranging from much older to me than much younger. In my generation of cousins (aged roughly 40 down to 20), out of eight of us, only two of us are married inside our own religious community. One of us is married to a black man, and me to a white man. Two of us are married to Panjabis. Their familes have found it difficult to excapt the marriage more than anyone else - I gather both sikh and hindu panjabi communities are very tight amongst themselves.

Patience and talking help us all deal with the cultural differences. Some of our 'ways' really annoy my husband sometimes - little things that add up. I spend time explaining and translating them to him so he can see them for what they are and not build up resentment. It really bugs him that people in the family expect him to be interested in their culutre but show absolutely no interest in his culture. No questions about his family, for example. Indian is the centre of the universe...

by the way, about your husband, he obviously will always be able to relate to his family as his family, whatever his involvement in their culture.

But you need some footing with them of your own. instead of coming at it from a cultural angle with your husband, perhaps he would find it easier to help if you approach him from this angle instead? (eg. I don't know what to talk about with your parents to pass the time - suggest some topics.)

Also, ask his mum to teach you her son's favourite recipes. That will win her heart!

Tinkymummy

I relate to your comment about people being interested in other cultures but that interest not being reciprocated. I think it's pretty universal. My DH is an overseas national and every other sentence is about his culture - reckon it's a way of keeping in touch with their own roots but it can get irritating.

In relation to some people not connecting to their culture - it's not that uncommon. I have relatives (invariably males in my case) who speak the community language less than I do (and I'm rubbish!) and date people outside the community. They still identify themselves as asian but cultures are in constant change.

People often look for difference as an excuse to be rude. My parents are divorced and loads of people assume it was because of cultural differences - yep - one's a man and the other a woman and you don't get more different than that.x

Hi Bubblymummy,

You're right about culture being in constant change. The difference between my older cousins (roughly 55 to 45), my generation (as I mentioned, about 40 to 20), and some younger members of the family, in their teens, is marked. I would say that my parents generation and my older cousins have a similar relationship to their culture - they know what is expected of them, and what to expect from others/the culture. But my generation and younger tend to cherry pick the bits they are interested in and leave the bits they don't. So some go to mosque, others speak the language, some have friends within the religious community, other have only asian friends, and some mix with all.

It's so true what you say Tinkymummy - I'm trying everything I can to be respectful to their culture and they show no interest in mine at all. It has made me feel angry in the past, but reading what you said made me laugh. I can relate to things you said Nikki76 - I have had to lay down the law in that way when buying a house too. His family did take things well, and they have welcomed me in their own way, but I can't help feeling that I am a disappointment to them in many ways. I guess I just feel sad that they don't try to get to know me as me, but there's nothing I can do about that, and that could happen in any culture, black or white. But Niks, I like what you say, and will give it a go! Their life and beliefs do really interest me.

Oh cool, glad you will give that a go

It is hard, I felt it was such a one way street - all the hard work was on my part and it was as if I didn't have a culture that needed respecting at all...it got so bad I even had counselling and in the end I realised that they won't change, so I'll have to empower myself by changing the way I think about them and its made me a lot happier and I also feel a better,bigger and calmer person for making the effort.

Its worth it though - all that reading etc and then I behave like a perfect Arab wife in front of the relatives and do all the right cultural things and then DH gets lots of positive feedback...I know its shallow and shouldn't hold out for approval from others but I can't help it!

I like to think they have changed their minds about their sterotype of white English women too!

Nikki, that's brilliant! I know it's one way, but it's probably the best you're gonna get. MissM, regarding getting to know you for you, I think relationships are much more formal (at least to begin with, and certainly to generalise) in Asian cultures. Mother and daughter in law get to know one another personally over many years, but they immediately relate to one another along quite narrow cultureal codes. If you don't know those codes, your in laws will be lost as to how to relate to you. That's why Nikki's approach will bring haromony.

There's no need to take it personally. Much of my family don't know me for me, they love me for being a family member and think they know me becase they relate to me in my position in the family. They certainly don't know me for me, and I don't think they'd know what to make of me if they did. I just play the part and it's all fine. So Nikki is doing what I do, only it's amazing she's learned about it all!

Thanks for compliments! Will be going off to bed a happy bunny tonight!

This is all very interesting to me!

Firstly - actually my dh is of Indian origin and I am 'English ish' (a bit mixed but white and no other culture involved)

My dh also has absolutely no pride or interest in Indian culture. He just doesn't think it's important and I don't see what's wrong with that. He has no wish for our ds to grow up immersed in Indian culture, although personally I don't want to totally ignore it as it is part of his background. It's just all not a big deal to some people and we should respect that.

Fundamentally in terms of culture and day to day living my husband is the same as me. He just has darker skin.

I don't want to be controversial but there's no rule to say that you HAVE to be proud of your culture (or actually it is often people's parents culture anyway for those born here). Yes you shouldn't be ashamed of it but it needn't feature large in your life.

With regards to building links with the in laws, at first I wanted to do lots of Indian things. If I went to an Indian wedding or function I'd always wear Indian clothes whereas now I might or I might not. I am not Indian so I don't feel the need always but I would always wear something 'appropriate' e.g. check colours, smartness required (I don't do low cut anyway!). This early approach was partly to please and partly as I was genuinely interested. I've settled down now and my MIL accepts me for who I am and that's great. I don't try and be Indian but I hope I am 100% respectful of her culture and religion. I think that's all you NEED to do - whatever you can to be respectful whether that is taking shoes off in the house, learning some of the in laws language, etc. If you want to do more do it because you want to do it and not because you feel you should. This acceptance thing should work both ways.

LOL at the house thing - my MIL and the rellies on dh's side all think modern houses are much better than period ones. MIL saw our house (Victorian) for the first time and was totally unimpressed as she would go for something I see as characterless and modern. When she was growing up old properties were of lower status and delapidated and new ones were what you had if you were well-off! Insights - however minor - like these are fascinating to me and make me glad to be in a relationship which has allowed me to learn so much about my MIL's culture. I don't need to be part of it in other ways to have that richness in my life.

p.s. learning some of the language is great for other reasons too - I absolutely love surprising strangers in shops etc who I know speak MIL's language by coming out with a few words (when I am not with Dh so itisn't obvious why I'd know) - they are totally stunned that some English woman can speak their language! Great fun and a real ice breaker.

my fil was born and brought up in India but is white (his great great great grandfather went over to fight in the Indian Mutiny and stayed there). Anyway, he speaks fluent Punjabi and it is hilarious to watch Indians' faces when met with this fluent white guy - in fact in restaurants it brings good discounts

He has tried to teach me bits but I dont trust him to teach me acceptable phrases

My hindu pal also decided one day it would be fun to teach me some phrases too but at least she had the good sense to tell me when not to use them !

The thing about being proud of your culture is my thing. I wasn't brought up Jewish, although we are, and I always felt a loss in my life and lots of curiosity about it, about my relatives, family history etc. I spent a lot of my teenage years/20s exploring being Jewish, living in Israel etc etc trying to 'find' who I was. So that's why I feel it's important for DD, because for me it was so important and helped give me an identity. Because it was so central to my life I suppose it was hard to understand why his culture (which he was brought up in) was so unimportant to DH. I think I am very respectful to the in-laws and their way of living, but I do wonder sometimes if I offend without knowing it. Then I get angry, as it is DH who cuts himself off rather than me, and I feel that this might reflect on me rather than him when I make so much effort.

Oh dear this has turned into a bit of a rant. I do know a few words in Punjabi. Maybe I should learn a sentence or two so I can use it next time I'm there.

I am white english and Dh is British Asian, punjabi as well, we met at university
His family did not want to know me until we were married so although we have been together for 11 years, I have only got to know his family over the last 6 years or so, from when we got engaged.
There was some hurt from my side for a while for how i thought this reflected on me, but now I have out it all behind me, and relaised that his parents must have found it very scary with the prospect of a non-indian DIL and so hoped it would all just go away. Interestingly over the years DH has become much more interested in his culture and heritage and whereas in his 20s it was not big thing , it is much more important to him.
I have grown to love my ILs, they are a funny bunch, but in the same way that my own family are a funny bunch. People are the same in all cultures, and that never ceases to amaze me, and as time goes by, the cultural stuff becomes more natural and you do absorb it by osmosis.
I know the form for various different functions and religious occasions and i have to say have a very helpful SIL. She lives with my BIL and his parents , but we have our own household, which is becoming an increasingly common thing now, but which the older generation find hard to understand.
A recent trip to India was also fascinating for seeing where the family came from , and meeting those who still live there adn the difference in lifestyles there adn here (so much freer here ) I have also become much more interested in the history of India particularly the time of partition and how it affected these punjabi families
Always behave respectfully to others (works for everyine no matter what race they are ) and having achild together is a winner.
I always think that my children are like trees and if they know the cultures/their Grandparents that they came from, this is a bit like their roots and it helps them know where they are growing to. I hope as your Dh gets older he will turn more to his community but he sounds very open at least to the world which is a positive thing. Multicultural relationships have an extra dimension in them , which is potentially enriching but it can cause stress as well. All the best

Just been reading your thread - both my parents are Indian, and I'm married to a white man (with a very Irish surname!) we too have a 9 month old. Luckily my family are quite modern and accept him for who he is.
I can partly understand your husband's reluctance to get too involved in his culture. Although our culure has a lot of positives, it can sometimes feel quite stifling, and I know many other Indians and punjabis who can't wait to leave it behind. For some of us, the parents and extended family can be very restricting. It is a shame because there is so much of it that is good.
Even I feel a bit awkward in totally indian environments such as weddings - everyone seems so much more competitive and trying to be well behaved in front of the elders - I know the respect for elders thing is good, but it seems a bit hypocritical sometimes - eg the non smoking/drinking/ dating - it's all for show. I know I'm a lot more relaxed and can be myself with my husband's family.
I think it's really admirable of you to want to embrace his culture, but like the other posters have said, don't worry too much about what they think of you - if you're making their son happy, then they will be happy, really, (and for some mothers, no-one is ever going to good enough, whatever the background!)

This is so helpful. To be honest I feel very alone sometimes as I don't know anyone else who's Asian that I can trust to be able to talk about it. I want to understand, I want to know more, I want to find out, but there's no-one I can talk with. I'd love to have an Asian girl friend who could give me an insight and help explain why he finds his family so difficult. Mumofben, what you say really helps. I also feel overwhelmed by his family at times, quite trapped almost by their expectations and demands.

Hiya

I think a lot of men with foreign origins find their families difficult...DH loves his family to bits but they are hard work in terms of protocol etc.

We have just returned from Syria - had nearly three weeks there and I kid you not, the first 10 days was just visiting relatives and having dinner at people's houses. You can't say no because it will cause grave offence and there is a lot of protocol to be observed - people don't even like observing it and whinge about it but it must be done to preserve family image etc!

DH is pretty hands on here in England with DS but in Syria, I did most of it because he couldn't be seen to be doing too much as it wasn't a man's job etc. Its not Islamic by the way, purely cultural. He also didn't do any washing up or sterlizing because again, it would look very bad if he did it...it was annoying but I just thought well, its only for three weeks and if it keeps the peace, I'll go along with it!

It helps a lot that I know what is expected of me culturally and I'm happy to fit in with that. Have you tried looking on the net for Sikh customs or to see if there are any books on the subject? I read a book about the Arab culture - Understanding Arabs and it helped me sooooo much! Am sure there are some books out there that could help you?

Hi again

Nikki that's quite funny re the dads being less hands on in front of the older rellies. With my dh he is actually quite happy to show the rellies that he does his fair share but it's me who gets all self conscious in front of them as I worry they'll think I'm not doing my bit! But I have this with my own granny too who expects the mum to do everything!

MissM - I am half Jewish but due to complications in my family (half brothers who weren't Jewish) my parents decided to not bring us up as anything. In effect they totally brushed this side of things under the carpet and I think that, although they had their reasons, this was extreme. I feel that I was quite awkward about this side of my background and in turn I don't want ds to feel like that about his Indian 'half'. That said nor do we want to immerse him in Indian stuff as dh doesn't do all that and it's not who we feel we are as a family. Will be tricky to get the balance right and leave ds feeling positive about it.

With your dh's family - one potential topic of conversation (with dh translating a bit i guess!) is about their experiences of emigrating here. I find it really interesting to learn about MIL's experience for her first few years which were a complete culture shock to her - little things like dealing with the cold, not having winter clothes, finding somewhere to live. She seems to like talking about this too.

Hi all. This is so helpful, I've never really been able to talk to anyone about it before. I don't want to immerse DD in Indian or Jewish culture, because that's not who we are either. I just want her to feel proud of who she is and where she comes from, and to be able to find an identity for herself - I don't have an issue with her 'accepting' or 'rejecting' either side. It's weird - I've asked DH in the past about his parents coming here, and he'd never talked to them about it. I will ask his mum next time I see her - I'd really like to know - and she does love talking about the past. She tells me all kinds of things about when DH was little (although I only get about half of it as her English is really hard to understand!)