Asians and Divorce: My H wants to pretend we are not divorcing

[Frooty]

Sorry for length of this. I need to chat with others who have had experience of divorcing an Asian partner and the stigma the Asian community can put on it. I am a mixture of Indian/British/Dutch and was raised in the UK. We have 2 ds of 5 and 6. My H is Indian and was violent and financially controlling. We mutually agreed recently to end the marriage and it also ended the violence. We are still living together until house is sold and my H will not reveal to his community that we are no longer a couple because of the scandal. For complicated reasons, neither of us is in a position to move out in order to separate.

I know (even from this topic board) that there are really lovely Asian men and I have been very unlucky. He was extremely charming for the first few years of marriage. He virtually changed overnight when we fundamentally disagreed over a cultural difference and neither would back down. The violence began after that. I am very wary of his family and community. Some of them are really decent, but even so they will never give me a fair trial when it comes to the divorce, they will be rigid and they will support him because he is powerful and they need him. I will be seen as aggressivly seeking divorce and written off as selfish, foolish and a marriage breaker. I expect to be despised by all and it is going to hurt, it already is. It would be wonderfully liberating, but completely pointless to tell anyone about the DV. But it would ruin my H's reputation and it could endanger me, my kids and my future. He would be a terrifying enemy, he would hurt me through my children somehow – his reputation means everything to him. It is my basic nightmare that I’m going to be hit by a tidal wave of guilt from family and community when the divorce is announced. I buckle easily under guilt trips. My H and his family/community have used this to their advantage – there is always some kind of emotional blackmail going on. It drains me and I want to get off the merry go round where other people control my life. He affected my mental health and I was too ill to leave for years. He really deserves to be exposed but the consequences would be hell because he's too powerful and connected. And I'm so isolated. The gossipy community makes me more isolated – I can’t trust anyone.

Im seeing a solicitor next week about divorce. He is not aware that it is so high on my agenda. I’m putting the house on the market, but signs are that it will be a slow sale. When it does sell and we split the equity, financially it is going to hit him hard to live alone so he is in NO HURRY to divorce. In the meantime he wants me to play happy families by attending forthcoming Indian functions.

This is what I need advice on - socialising until the divorce comes through and we finally make the big announcement. I can't do the "happy family in public" bit anymore. The functions are all his Indian friends and wider community and I'd rather not attend than have to go and act and avoid all the personal/status questions that new people ask after intros. The more people I meet, the more they draw me in to socialise further as a couple. I am trying to get off that circuit – sadly I’ve not found any real friends among them that I could trust with personal info anyway. I just feel like my whole life (until the day of reckoning) is just secrets and lies. I have said to H that if I attend any functions sooner or later someone's questions will drive me nuts and I will have to say we are getting divorced. He is fuming about this because he can't deal with the scandal. As long as I live with him he can make life very difficult.

Please advise. Should I play happy families and go to the functions. He is taking our sons to them without me and people are getting offended and frosty. He is laying guilt about this, saying how good these people have been to me and what a bad nature I have. This could go on for another year until the house is sold.
I’d appreciate any advice. Thanks.

I'm sorry, I don't have the cultural perspective you want, as I'm not Asian, but saw the 'pretend we are not divorcing' bit. Really feel for you. What a horrifying situation.

You are, of course, doing the right thing - the only thing - in ending this. You say your h is controlling and violent - isn't his demand that you turn up to functions and play happy families another attempt to control you, when he sees you beginning to escape?

very sorry that you are going through all this, and have no real advice but I imagine it must be torture having to live a lie like this. I hope someone more helpful comes along soon.

Edam - I'm glad to hear from anyone who has a view on it - I'm lost in my own problem. I also stuck a short message about it on the relationships board too.
It is his way of controlling me. I feel he has tried to brainwash me by telling me how selfish I am.

Actually, I should say again, regardless of anyone's culture, I would welcome your comments on this. I shouldn't have made it sound so particular. Thanks.

I'm Asian, I know there's this massive sitgma against divorce and a lot of flack is laid at the woman's feet. However, a family friend was divorced becasue he hit her, he hit her so badly she ended up havign convulsions it was horrible, nobody had any respect for her ex and nobody blamed her for the divorce either.

See a solicitor, and see if you can't speed up the home sale (why do you tihnk it will take years to sell your house?), or speak to someone regarding what kind of benenfits you'd get, you can't stay with a violent partner like this, it will effect your health. And as for playing happy families no I wouldn't, forget the guilt, you owe nobody anything, it's you and your children that come first....

Fuzzywuzzy - you are saying what I really need to hear! Because I have been surrounded by people who really want to guilt me out - I've been drowned out by them, because there is only ONE of me. It is so refreshing to hear someone say what I feel. I'm always being ticked off for feeling this way, its a very psychological process.

Several properties in my road have taken over a year to sell and they are in better condition than mine.

i would not attend any functions. i would ( if i wasn't going to get beaten) tell him that his violence has brought me to that decision and he can give whatever excuse he feels like. but until he gets some help, counselling, marriage guidance or activley seeks somekind of outside intervention then i would not be an accessory to his pride and reputation.

if his family are treating you like shit, your family are blaming you , the community will gossip - have you no relatives you could go move near when the financial settlement comes through?

maybe your family would even agree this as a solution?

I may agree about not saying you are getting divorced until is done to avoid gossiping parties taking sides and making the divorce more difficult but to keep attending social functions you don't enjoy just for him to save face??? the cheek of it!

Now, I'm not Asian and supose every culture has its own cultural floritures you will never get to understand. So, what I'm trying to say is that you are the one who are in the best position to evaluate your situation. You know what is best, and if a confrontation caused by your refusal to attend social functions is going to result in consequences deeper and longer than such functions... please take the easiest/safest/more- convenient-for-you route until you get divorced. Good luck!

Frooty, your situation does sound miserable.

It sounds as though he doesnt want to accept that you want a divorce, and you seem convinced that you dont have the option to just up and leave.

I can sympathise with this, because I am still financially entangled with violent, controlling, vengeful dx, and if I split now, Id lose too much money that I need to buy our new house (children and me), also dx would be furious and get revenge somehow.
What exactly are you scared of your dx doing? Would he take the children to India by force if you don't do what he says?

I think I would probably make the DV public anyway, as it will probably have more impact on people's opinions than you think. I bet loads of people suspect it anyway, but they think you are happy with it (!) because you haven't said anything.

I would be worried about living with a violent partner who doesn't want a divorce, because I think this sounds like a dangerous situation for you. (I stayed with dx, but he was the one seeking divorce, not me, so he was basically happy with the way things were going).

The best solution for the question that you asked, would be to make the divorce public, and separate. If you stop socialising with him, the truth will leak out anyway, and as you said, if you're still living there, he could make life v difficult for you.

Whose name is the house in? If yours, then can you throw him out and change the locks? Could your solicitor advise about the feasibility of this? How scared is your dh of the police/law?

hope some of this helps. There are more people with relevant experience of splitting from violent, controlling partners on MN, who will hopefully be along later.

Frooty - I'd like to echo the voices that advise you to continue to avoid social events on his calendar... you do not owe him this.

Do you not feel that your (because it is yours as well as his) community are beginning to accept divorce as an inevitability in the 21st century?

My xP was Asian and a divorcee, like many of his contemporaries of his community... I (english rosey type!) felt completely accepted by his family which is fairly culturally traditional....

Do you think your partner is 'bigging it up' about how the community will react? It just doesn't sound anything like my experience at all.

winging loads of bolshy confidence your way - hope you find an ally in your dilemma... are there any girlies of your age who you can take into your confidence? Work on it hun! the girlie network can work wonders at discrediting a man in his community!

I'm feeling better for all moral support - thanks.

There was a function last night and I didn't go and the host (who hardly knows me) rang me up specifically to invite me but I said I was ill. That's one of the reasons I posted in the first place because everything is such an act and honesty is a dangerous option. I can only speak outright about everything from the day I live separately from him. He is capable of murder - for the sake of his reputation I'm absolutely sure of it. He has made many threats and I have seen him unhinged many times.

Wabbit - your xp and his family sound reasonable. I'm lost for words as how to describe how orthodox my H's family and community are. You and me have experienced different Asian worlds. Some of H's ranks look modern on the outside but they are v hardline. Some of the male figures of authority can be tyrants with their own families, not unlike my H. They would cease relationships with their own children if their children even dated out of their caste or religion and this has happened. Divorce in unheard of in his extended family. I know India has changed in the big cities but there is still an old school that is very authoritarian and proud and H is a a member. I have met Indian women in India who have sympathised with me and who likened marrying into my Hs family as being in a "cage" - and they are Indian. The women my H has grown up with are servile and obedient. My marriage was a love marriage (not arranged) so I never thought I'd be expected to follow so many rules. It is different to what you experienced.

CocaineCusty - I won't be attending any more functions. It's annoying because I keep bumping into people and have to explain and to live a lie but it won't be forever. He can't be communicated with, I've tried all the methods you suggested, counselling etc - he is a typical bully - terrified of being made to look at himself in a mirror by a counsellor. My family can’t help – they are far and wide and let me down when I needed a refuge. I will have to do this alone, but I have an Agency worker who has made a support plan for me and she's great, She's coming with me to solicitor in 2 weeks.

Chandra thank for your support. I will have to be very careful about how I take this forward. I may contact an Asian advice line and ask them to speak to him - I doubt if he will though.

Nightynight - your situation sounds awful too and your dx sounds exactly like mine, similar circumstances too. What am I scared of …. I’m scared that he might lower my mental health even further by more financial control in the interim period and possibly become violent again. I’ve had lots of breakdowns and they immobilise me – the breakdowns keep me in the relationship and the longer I stay the more ill and weak I become. I don’t think anyone suspects the dv. His public profile is impeccable – he takes care – his community think he is a hero. The house is in my name and I will find out how to proceed when I the Sol. H will bow down to the law – he’s terrified of authority. How is your mental health in all of this and how old are your kids? Are you safe atm – is he likely to be violent again. Hope things go through quickly for you too.

My family is old fashioned, but it's accepted that divorce happens and life goes on.

I'd get things moving if I were you, and tell your family at least. You're not alone you know, and although you may think your soon to be ex capable of murder I'd get the police involved. A lot of Asian's I know would find a criminal record a helluva lot more shameful than a divorce.

Keep strong.

I'm going to go off and do some things now. If any of you know of any Asian women's orgs that are useful and deal with dv, please let me know. I'm in London, Palmers Green. Thanks.

I'll look some up there are loads in north london.

I don't have any experience but you have my sympathy. I do know what you mean and can see that honesty really isn't an option. My fiance is indian, from a strict background, though prob not as bad as yours. They don't do honesty neither, their method of dealing with scandal is pretty much like what he is doing, ignore it, pretend it isn't happening. They seem to prefer it that way and it is considered more respectful. It took me a long while to get my head around that one! I found eventually it was best to elave them to it, and half his family still don't knwo about me or our twins - too scandelous, so they pretended he moved out with mates.

If that is what he wants to do I would leave him to it. There is no point in you going out and announcing it, as it won't do you any good at all. And of course his family will side with him. Leave them for him to deal with, and he can carry on making excuses for you. Eventually people will realise something is going on and it will probably all happen quietly and be hushed up as much as possibe which is what they would want. Meanwhile you need to find support elsewhere, what about your family?

frooty - I stayed because dx is very intelligent, and not likely to resort to murder. I always had my job, which kept me fairly sane!
Please be careful. It is said that the most dangerous time for a woman is after she has made it clear that she is leaving, but before she actually does so.

Please do get the dv on record somewhere, even if only to ask your sol what to do about it. What will you do if your dh goes to court for custody of the children? You need some evidence of why you are divorcing. Dont think like a victim! You are strong, and you have got lots to fight with.

You are financially independent, because you can get benefits. Any arrangements that he has made, eg house in your name etc are not important enough to keep you a prisoner. If the worst comes to the worst, claim benefits and fess up later, after your house is sold. You can resign from any company "jobs" that he has put you in.
You will quickly get your confidence back after you split, once you start dealing with your finances again.

Nightynight, you're right, it is a dangerous period that I'm coming to. It's another reason why I am trying to be tactical about how go about things. I have put the dv on record. I always wrote up the incidents just in case I needed to take legal action. They are all printed off and in a safe place. I intend to bring it up with Sol. I think women who've experienced dv are really strong, they just don't know they are. My brain is overloaded with stress, that's what's slowed me down, the apprehension. I know what I am capable of and one day I will be fine.

I wanted to reply more, but it's the school run. Will be back later.

I had a chat with him earlier today. I was very assertive and strong, mainly because of all the support I have had here. I had the courage of my convictions. I told him that he really needs to announce it to his circle of people otherwise one invite will lead to another. He kept switching the subject, but in the end I pinned him down on it and said he was going to, so I will see what happens.

Kelly, my exp of his community is that there is always some kind of protection going on - a big secret has to be kept to protect someone else - usually the male authoritarian figure in the household. Then we are all creeping around trying to pretend we know nothing. The politics is horrendous. Btw, I keep referring to his family and friends as "his community" because I don't want to sound like I'm putting down Indian culture - it is him and his community that I have a problem with, not the culture. I love India and it's part of my life - one day I will get MY India back. I'd love to take my kids around the India that I fell in love with. I know there are broadminded people who are fair, honest, logical, reasonable, practical and live in the 21st century - unfortunately his lot aren't.

IME it seems that the Indians living in India are often far more relaxed and modern thinkign than some of the Indians living is this country - absurb isn't it? I'd love to visit India with my children too.

Fuzzywuzzy it wouldn't make any difference if I told my family, my family knew about the violence shortly after it started and they didn't help, they saw me as a liability. Previous to that I'd always been a rock for them when they had hard times. It's true that you find out who your friends are in time of trouble. I think if I told them, they would scoop all the gossip, see me twice a year and think privately that I'd made my own bed and better lie in it. The day that I pull my life back together and become strong and successful again - then my family will be interested in me again, for me to be their rock again. That's not meant to sound victimy - its just for info. I've moved on from my family really.

also, I hope your chat with him has helped. It will probably take him a while, but good luck to you!

India is an amazing country and I loved it more than any other and I've travelled a lot. There are parts of India that will probably never change - thank goodness. The India that I love very rarely crops up in a Hindi film, that's for sure. Kelly, do take your kids one day they will love it, it is such an experience and an adventure.

I think you need a plan Frooty. You need to stash some money, some clothes and some essentials so that if you have to just get out, you can. You need somewhere safe to go - a domestic violence advisor re: ss or police can put you in touch. You need to see the citizens advice agency, a lawyer and the police so that if the shit hits hte fan (so to speak!) you are not totally unprotected and vulnerable.

Fantastic you stuck to your guns Frooty, we'll be thinking of you xxx